legacies and effect on admissions

<p>Ccer999 - It happens all the time, take courage.</p>

<p>I have to say that I have to disagree with leanids post. I dont think that there is a huge amount of BS that give a high quality experience. That is why the hades plus are so sought after. Dont get me wrong, there are a big number of schools that are wonderful, and do an incredible job, while not being first or second tier, but primarily those schools take care of kids that cant succeed in a competitive academic environment of the 1st/2nd tier schools. Sending a bright kid to one of those schools would not serve them well. That kind of kid would benefit from great summer enrichment programs whether travel abroad, academic summer camp internship and outside enrichment classes. Also there are a large number of schools that have kids that are sent there because they cant be with their families due to divorce, parents not willing to take the time to “parent”, etc. A bright kid would not do well at all at a boarding school like that since the culture there is not to study well, and isolation for a bright kid would be devastating. The drug usage at these schools is huge as well.</p>

<p>An interesting statistic I learned at Deerfield’s Parents’ Weekend: 51% sibling acceptance rate! Yes, more than 3x greater than the overall acceptance rate.</p>

<p>Margarita Curtis, Head of School, mentioned a preference in admission for the “well rounded student”. Apparently, these are found in siblings. Good news for my other son in 2011, although he prefers SPS right now.</p>

<p>A legacy gets a second look and that is a hook but it does not guarantee a spot. Leanid is quite right with his/her posts and I reiterate that siblings get turned down all the time. Parents who have been through the process before are more realistic and aware that there exists a possibility that their second or third child may not got accepted simply on the fact that it’s not the right place. Many if not all BS make a consisted effort every year to offer admissions to those students who have no legacy or connection whatsoever. As previously mentioned Admissions also likes legacy but they know that what is good for one child is not necessarily the best fit for the other. Which brings us back to this tiring waste of words about tier levels and hades. Until one conquers that hurdle they will constantly struggle in understanding the gift that almost all BS offer and could spend years wondering why the kid from Avon Old Farms went on to Yale and why after 4 years at Deerfield the other went on to take a year off. One more tidbit, just because the sibling gets accepted does not necessarily mean he or she will go, sometimes the parents know of a better environment, learning institution, boarding school / FIT (ahh, that’s the word I was looking for).</p>

<p>To me, if you have a decent (not necessarily top-notch) choice of public or private day schools in your area, then yes only a dozen or so first-tier boading schools are “worth” attending in the sense that it warrants the sorts of sacrifices you are making and the potential risks of leaving a teenager hundreds of miles away. Those schools provide significantly different experience and opportunities than your ordinary local schools. If the student is not qualified to enter a first-tier school or for financial reasons (FA or scholarships), choosing a school that has similar “setup” but with a higher acceptance rate makes sense (e.g. Kent or NMH both have acceptance rate > 40%), but I don’t agree on the notion that somehow all boarding schools are of the same quality and all that matters is “fit” (would you rate all public schools of the same quality?). In terms of college admission, inner city schools send kids to selective colleges as well. It doesn’t mean it’s a better school, even for the kid who came out of it and went to Yale. That’s not all a good education is about.</p>

<p>There are private day schools in our area, and our high school is thought to be excellent. Admissions to the better private day schools is more competitive than the boarding school process. The Wall Street Journal wrote an article about this a few years ago.</p>

<p>But you’re proving my point, Benley. For you, the boarding experience is not a plus, it’s a sacrifice. There are many families who agree. That’s why I suspect (but don’t know) that the set of families who apply to boarding schools has a greater proportion of parents who themselves attended boarding school, when compared to a random sample.</p>

<p>I consider the kind of money we pay for tuition and room & board, and living without the kid’s presence for a good part of the year sacrifices. I remember it’s in the Exeter school video, a mother said, “I am her mother. I don’t want her to go, but I am her mother, I have to let her…”… for the exceptional education she wouldn’t get anywhere else. So true!</p>

<p>mhmm,</p>

<p>There must be easily three or four dozen (maybe more) boarding schools that can be thought of as top notch – not just HADES and its ilk. Schools that offer varied and challenging academics – not all on the same level, mind you, but strong academics nonetheless. Look at college acceptance stats for any of them (if that is your measurement of a school’s worth). You will see that all have at least SOME students getting into the “best” colleges. So, if your child does not get into Exeter or Deerfield, due to legacy issues, despite being well qualified academically, yet attends, say, Pomfret and from there gains entry to a top college – such scenarios happen all the time – are you saying that the experience of attending a fine school like Pomfret would not have been worth it? </p>

<p>There is a lot of ignorance about boarding schools out there – some of it on this forum. Let’s get over the notion that there is only a handful of schools worthy to consider – there are many, just as there is a number of schools for underachievers (which, by the way also manage to get some rather impressive college admission results), troubled teens and the like.</p>

<p>Finally, I will wager that in all types of boarding schools students take away a certain growth, maturity and grace that only the boarding life provides.</p>

<p>

Well on the school revisit day, we were told that only a small percentage of the new students this year were second/third generatin attending a boarding school (can’t remember the exact numbers though). Siblings is another story. Among the people I know at least half of them (probably not a balanced sample) have two or more children attending (have attended) Andover.</p>

<p>Im sorry, but I just cant agree that there are that many schools providing top notch academics. Its simply not the case. There is a reason that hades, or what ever you want to call the group is thought of as highly as they are. And no, I dont rate schools by the colleges their graduates attend, and yes at SPS there are plenty of kids that werent served well in the college process due to the high caliber of the grade. I believe the school is top notch due to the kind of minds it attracts as students, and to the minds it attracts that educate those students. Remember, most of the teachers are in the profession because they are attracted to educating bright minds, thus the best will go where they will be assured of the most intellectual stimulation. Without bringing schools’ names into this argument, a school that accepts students that are not great learners by definition can not have as strong academics as schools that accept the top of the crop. This again, is not to say that there arent great schools out there that do a wonderful job educating students that arent top academically. There are and they do a fine job doing what they do. Just dont equate their academics with the really rigorous academics of some of the top boarding schools. Thats why I say that imo a bright student that didnt get into a top school, is not just as well served going to a different boarding school. They will probably be better served by the public or private day school.</p>

<p>"Also there are a large number of schools that have kids that are sent there because they cant be with their families due to divorce, parents not willing to take the time to “parent”, etc. …“The drug usage at these schools is huge as well.”</p>

<p>Are the bases of these assertions statistical, anectdotal or imagined?</p>

<p>mhmm,</p>

<p>I think one must be careful not to proclaim that only the top schools get the top teachers, and that the others get teachers who are basically on the same level as their students.</p>

<p>One can have have wonderfully inspiring and challenging teachers at any school, just as one can have the opposite at any school.</p>

<p>Apparently your view of what makes a great teacher is one who likes students that are already stellar – sure, it makes the teacher look good too – nothing like preaching to the choir! My view of a great teacher is one who opens the mind of a student to the subject at hand, and awakens and nurtures that student’s interest. Of the two types of teachers, which one do you think feels best at the end of the day?</p>

<p>Having a high number of “trophy students” is a two-edged sword. While the faculty may sit back and relax, thinking about what a “great” school they have, they must bear in mind that there is also a good number of “normal” students who need much more faculty involvement and guidance. If those students are neglected, then it it really isn’t much of a school, it’s a trophy case…</p>

<p>

Sorry I disagree. My experience is that in the top schools the teachers generally have better qualifications and the majority of them are great teachers who are patient, devoted and sensitive to students’ needs from their small classes. I am sure there are great teachers in every school, but mhmm’s point is the top schools attract more good teachers with high caliber. This is nothing different than public schools in upscale/better neighborhoods - the teachers are better.</p>

<p>@ nylecoj007 & benley
IMO fit is still the main key no matter how smart a kid may be and many, if not all boarding schools, parents, students, alumni and certainly faculty would take issue with some of your statements which you’re certainly entitled to make. In the end it’s about the students in the hopes that they will have had or having fulfilling experiences and be able to give something back to society in return.</p>

<p>Meantime, believe we’ve gotten off track from the OP query of legacy to which I reiterate that even with the whole family and dog currently enrolled and no matter how smart, athletic all around wonderful the applicant may be, if he or she doesn’t fit they won’t admit. Maybe waitlisted because of the dog. Having said that, current economic times might dictate otherwise. Certainly a family with generous Annual Fund donations along with paying full boat for another kid probably would get brother or sister accepted. At least the toes have to get into the shoe.</p>

<p>Thank you, ops, for that. </p>

<p>I will add that there are, without exaggeration, dozens of long-established schools out there whose faculty, students and friends would most vigorously take issue with the position that says the boarding school world is static and that only a select few have the better teachers.</p>

<p>That unfortunate stance is akin to the one regarding colleges, with its blind insistance that no other colleges measure up to those of the Ivy League. They do indeed measure up! The world has changed. In just the last 40 to 50 years the Earth’s population has doubled! Now that we have twice as many smart students and professors out there, where do you suppose they have all been going – to the Ivys?!</p>

<p>ops, fair enough. Note though at least for me, I am just stating my personal opinions based on my personal experience. It is my belief that a bright student should know about and try to find the opportunity to experience the education a top boarding school provides. Those schools are varied in many aspects and one should be able to find a “fit” among them. However, I respect others’ opinions when they say there are a whole lot of schools that are at the same level and are just as excellent. I don’t think so but I respect their opinions. People who are exploring their options can listen to both sides and make their judgement.</p>

<p>I’ll agree that a bright student most certainly should be given the opportunity to experience the benefits of a great institution as should any other kid who has the potential to benefit from such an institution but it does not need to be and won’t always be the same institution that will ultimately achieve the same goal.</p>

<p>Benley - Did my last post make any sense to you?</p>

<p>Oh, didn’t you mean to say “…there IS a whole lot of schools…” (sorry, couldn’t resist)</p>

<p>

It did make some sense to me. Did mine make any sense to you?

Did I? I don’t know, but I see your point.</p>

<p>Ops,</p>

<p>Pleases be clear, these were neither my statements nor my opinions. I was following up on post #22. Never quite mastered the quote box thingy so I used the old fashioned " ". </p>

<p>There are a lot of crossed wires on this thread. Ha.</p>