I suspect that this issue has been discussed often here, but as a first time poster still hope to get a few opinions. My daughter is a senior at a very good (not elite) public HS, has a weighted 4.85 GPA in a STEM program loaded with AP courses, ok ACT (32). Like everyone else she has numerous extra curriculars and is a varsity athlete (not a college prospect). Her father and uncle are both Columbia alumni (both grads of the college and professional schools). She is interested in Columbia but understands it would be a reach. My understanding is that in order for the “legacy” to carry any weight (and it may carry none these days - I have no idea -), the student must apply early decision. But I would hate to see her “waste” her early decision choice if she has little chance regardless. Any general thoughts? Thanks.
It really depends on the university. For example, Penn states outright that legacy helps most in ED. Columbia does not officially state that legacy is more helpful for ED, but there is definitely a legacy advantage for those applicants that are otherwise well-qualified. It won’t help a bit if the applicant is not qualified. Also, as an FYI, the uncle’s status won’t matter, only her father’s status matters.
http://undergrad.admissions.columbia.edu/ask/faq/question/2412
The uncle being a legacy won’t help. Unless he has donated $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ perhaps.
You say she is “interested” in Columbia but not that it is a passionate first choice. That would be my first red flag in recommending ED there. I agree with your reluctance to think that a 32 ACT if you are a white advantaged applicant may not cut it. It is hard to know how that weighted GPA compares to her classmates. If it is her first choice dream then she should apply since she may regret settling elsewhere but I’m sure they turn down many more legacies than they admit and those admitted tend to be in the top end of the admitted pool since they are more likely advantaged non-URMs and within context they are expected to have tippy top performance.
Legacy is one advantage. Early decision is another. Combining them may confer a greater combined advantage than either separately, even at colleges that do not state the legacy advantage is specifically tied to early decision.
This part is largely speculation, but I think it is logical. If a strong applicant applies to his parent’s alma mater regular decision, the college knows it means it may not be the student’s first choice and the student may or may not choose to attend it if admitted. AND, colleges are walking a balance between trying to reassure alumni donors that there will be an advantage for their children, and trying to avoid looking elitist. I noticed that the Williams news releases pair two sentences back to back: the one naming the percentage of legacies admitted and the one naming the percentage of first generation students admitted, with the first gens outnumbering the legacies by more than two to one. The message is that legacies get admitted but that the college is trying harder to bring in underprivileged students.
So, it makes more sense to admit more legacies early decision, where the number matriculating is controlled/known. In that way, you can control the number of legacies so that it is comparable to the year before, and alumni feel valued, but the number of legacies will not balloon unexpectedly large, and thus can stay smaller than the number of first generation, minority, Pell grant, etc. students, so that the college projects itself as providing socially equitable opportunities and contributing to students’ social mobility.
Interesting that Williams widely publishes the legacy admit rate. Yale touts it first generation and Pell grant admits which go up every year and does not do so for legacies. Furthermore, the higher legacy admit rate (2-3 times the general admit rate) comes with the caveat from admissions that those students achieve at far higher levels than the general applicant pool. This may be both because these kids have so many advantages and the parents are more realistic of the competition and steer their kids from disappointment. Nevertheless, legacy “ain’t what it used to be” and it is reasonable not to use your ED option as a legacy to a school that is a big reach thinking the legacy will put you over the edge.
I would hesitate to suggest that any student apply ED to Columbia unless the student is wildly enthusiastic about that particular university.
Columbia has a unique Core Curriculum that doesn’t appeal to everyone. And its New York City location, which is a big plus for some students, is a big minus for others.
This isn’t a school with dozens of rough equivalents across the country. It’s a unique place that’s not for everyone. I can see how a student could get into Columbia ED and then regret having made that commitment.
.I agree that one shouldn’t apply to Columbia ED if you aren’t committed to a city college and the core curriculum. Columbia’s yield is 63% is that enough that they don’t care that much about how likely you are to attend? I don’t know. I do know that Harvard with a yield of 80% says they don’t care about interest in their Common Data Set, but I can’t find a CDS for Columbia. Harvard accepted my kid even though he told his interviewer it wasn’t his first choice which is why he hadn’t applied SCEA.
My S was accepted ED (quite a while back). His grandfather was a grad, which of course the CU literature and adcoms at the information meeting indicate does not matter–parent only.
OTOH, his interviewer was very interested in the Grandfather connection and I think pushed harder because of it. Not that may have meant anything. I can say he was an otherwise totally unhooked, generic white kid from an upper middle class family, and it’s hard to know what does get them in. ED certainly didn’t hurt.
I’m assuming the dad and uncle can tell the young woman about the unique aspects of CU, since they went there. These were indeed what attracted my S.
The decision to apply early decision should be whether the college is your daughter’s first choice. As you said, every elite college is a reach. Legacy certainly helps, but the vast majority of legacy applicants are rejected. One practical suggestion is to ask your daughter to write the “Why Columbia” supplemental essay first. She’ll have to pull together what she wants out of college and evaluate how well Columbia fits. And writing a tight 300 word essay may persuade her that is indeed her top choice or it might feel too bleh and convince her otherwise.
Some colleges consider history of involvement of the parents for legacy admits. It doesn’t have to be a developmental case. But long history of small but regular donation and participation to alumni events helps.
ACT score 32 puts her at about 25% as it has 32-35 range of middle 50%. So I would be hesitant to use ED on it unless there are more reasons.
"When an applicant is extremely competitive and compares favorably with other similarly talented candidates, being the daughter or son of a Columbia University graduate (from any Columbia school or college) may be a slight advantage in the admission process. This advantage may especially apply for “legacy” candidates.
Please note: applicants are considered to be “legacies” of Columbia only if they are the children of Columbia College or Columbia Engineering graduates."
Thanks all for your replies. They were very helpful.
In Columbia’ College’s alumni magazine they always list the names of incoming kids whose parents went there, at least they used to list them once a year. They obviously like when alum kids carry on the tradition. I would imagine that you still need the stats. Can you look at naviance and see if anyone got in with a 32? If so then maybe it’s worth applying ED. If no one in your school got accepted with less than a 34 for example then I might not want to waste the ED unless your child has something else they really want.