<p>As an URM, this topic is one that with I frequently struggle. I see the merits of both arguments. I think in general, I lean towards the side of being against AA, because I find it discouraging that I may get into a college or university because I'm black, and not because I deserve it. It's also quite insulting to me, to think that I could only get into a certain place because I'm a minority. Don't get me wrong, I'm not suggesting that the reason that minorities get into prestigious universities is because of their race, but nonetheless, it has to be recognised that it is a factor of considerable weight. </p>
<p>But on the other hand, I also remember that it is what I do with an opportunity that is given me that matters. The circumstances under which I received that opportunity are irrelevant if I put it to good use. I think the point of AA is to provide URMs with the opportunity to compete at the same level as majority races. While it does help with the diversity of a specific college or university, the idea is to promote the success of these races. Unfortunately, I doubt that it will ever truly be possible to play catch-up one-hundred percent. Marchballer made a very good point in that the problem lies not just with economic issues, but social and cultural ones as well. If blacks are not encouraged to take upper levels courses, and are considered to be "white" if they start to succeed, no amount of government help will fix a mindset.</p>
<p>Ultimately, I think that bill_h is right. Starting a flame war in a URM's chances thread is rather unnecessary. Chances are, they are probably aware that their minority status will help them in admissions (whether they agree with it or no), but are interested in how their statistics stack up in relation to the school they want to apply to. A possible solution would be to leave race out of Chances threads entirely, but I think this would still give an inaccurate representation, because, like it or not, race <em>does</em> help. I'd suggest that people try to be as helpful (and tactful) as they can, in discussing race as a factor in a Chance thread. I'm not asking for people to tiptoe around the fact that a person is black, hispanic, asian, or whatever else, but recognise it in a way that is neither offensive, nor rude.</p>
<p>I'm sorry, but didn't you know the main effect of affirmative action (and it would seem goal of affirmative action) is to start flame wars and fervent debate about the merits of racism (in any form, good or bad)? Didn't you read Industrial Society and its Future (a.k.a. the UNABOMBER Manifesto)? Its all explained quite clearly:</p>
<p>"For example, if one believes that affirmative action is good for black people, does it make sense to demand affirmative action in hostile or dogmatic terms? Obviously it would be more productive to take a diplomatic and conciliatory approach that would make at least verbal and symbolic concessions to white people who think that affirmative action discriminates against them. But leftist activists do not take such an approach because it would not satisfy their emotional needs. Helping black people is not their real goal. Instead, race problems serve as an excuse for them to express their own hostility and frustrated need for power. In doing so they actually harm black people, because the activists' hostile attitude toward the white majority tends to intensify race hatred. "</p>
<p>Wow, apparently ignorance is not bliss. I'm honestly disgusted by how selfish and closed minded so many people are. AA benefits everyone, even if it isn't fair, neither is life, get the hell over it. I wanted to go to school where there was a lot of diversity and I could interact with lots of different people, AA makes it more possible to do so. Who cares if someone with 100 points less on the SAT's or a 3.4 instead of a 3.8 got in because they were an URM, they are adding something to the college that a white person with much better scores could never add. Some people are born wealthy, some people are born black. Being white, we can't know how it is being black or any other minority for that matter, but if you stop being selfish pricks and open your eyes, it is unquestionably harder being a minority in this country. If you didn't get into a college don't make excuses about AA, its the way it is and with that attitude you probably shouldn't have gotten into the college. I so much more rarely hear people complaining about "hooks" such as legacies or athletes getting in over much more qualified student's. Its practicaly the same thing so if your gonna complain about AA, you might as well complain about that as well. However, you could just do the world and yourself a really big favor and shut the **** up.</p>
<p>These AA threads always seem to die after I comment. I'm curious to what those against AA have to say about what I said, as all anyone did was agree with me. My post was near the bottom of pg 4.</p>
<p>i think any stats you could find would tell you that the difference in eventual income between Columbia and Harvard graduates is much smaller than the one between white and black people.</p>
I totally agree. If someone at my school calls a white person a "cracka," they won't get in trouble. But God for bid if someone calls a black person "black" they're in trouble. The correct term is "African American" apparently.
But Some African-Americans Aren't Black (Whites immingrants from South Africa) Some blacks aren't African-American (Hispanic Orgin)</p>
<p>I have a question for my fellow CCers. It's actually two-part question.</p>
<p>(a) I'm assuming that most people here believe that race does not play a active role in determining intelligence or abilities... Do you believe it does? Answer yes or no before replying to the second part of this question. No need to justify it.</p>
<p>(b) Keeping the first question in mind, why is it that URMs deserve a boost (taking out economic factors)?</p>