Let's play rank California universities...

<p>I've never really understood the whole 'classes' thing. For one, only about 6% of the classes at Cal are over 100. But more importantly, all large classes are supplemented with small discussions each week. So no matter what, you're going to have small environments.</p>

<p>I suppose the "smallness" of other schools might come in other areas of college. At Princeton, it's residential living and "eating clubs." At Yale, it's residential colleges. But at schools like Berkeley (over 30,000 students) or Stanford (over 20,000 students), you can find many small environments: in the smaller classes and the discussions, in the dorms, in the Greek system, in the co-ops, in the themed housing, in departments, in clubs and activities... so I'd say it's the best of both worlds.</p>

<p>The education at Berkeley is no better or worse than that at Harvard, Stanford, Princeton, Yale, etc. The environments are simply different (and I mean even Yale's is different from Princeton's, and the like).</p>

<p>
[quote]
The caliber of Cal's students may not be as high as Princeton's

[/quote]
</p>

<p>Statistically. I don't see any differences in reality between students at Cal and Princeton. In other words, the students' intelligence, as far as perception, is pretty much the same. They're all very bright and well-accomplished, and you're not going to notice much of a difference when you're around them. I don't split hairs over SAT points or the # in the top 10%.</p>

<p>
[quote]
though a lot of people who get into Cal would not have gotten into Princeton.

[/quote]
</p>

<p>Agreed. But I think that's one of the beauties of Cal's admissions: they admit the tippy-top students who get into Stanford, etc. (usually), but also admit a lot of the students who don't get into Stanford and the like but are extremely qualified. (There are also the students who aren't so qualified, but they're few in number.)</p>

<p>According to the most recent common data set from each school.</p>

<p>Percentage of classes with 50 or more students:</p>

<p>Princeton: 10%
Cal: 15%</p>

<p>Percentage of classes with fewer than 20 students:</p>

<p>Princeton: 72%
Cal: 58%</p>

<p>Well, Cal's class sizes are not too bad.</p>

<p>Cal should stop recruiting disadvantaged students from the California's public schools in order to upgrade the caliber of freshman class ^^</p>

<p>That isn't quite from the most recent CDS. It's actually:</p>

<p>Percentage of classes with 50 or more students:</p>

<p>Princeton: 10%
Cal: 14%</p>

<p>Percentage of classes with fewer than 20 students:</p>

<p>Princeton: 74%
Cal: 61%</p>

<p><a href="http://registrar1.princeton.edu/data/common/cds2005.pdf%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://registrar1.princeton.edu/data/common/cds2005.pdf&lt;/a>
<a href="http://cds.berkeley.edu/pdfs/PDF%20wBOOKMARKS%2006-07.pdf%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://cds.berkeley.edu/pdfs/PDF%20wBOOKMARKS%2006-07.pdf&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p>

<p>Princeton's is a little old, but it still works.</p>

<p>Funny, Berkeley's stats above are just like MIT's (61% under 20, 14% over 50).</p>

<p>based on the large universities i know:</p>

<p>stanford
cal
caltech
UCLA/USC
UCSD
UCD/UCSB
UCSC
UCR
UCM</p>

<p>Rankings</p>

<p>Stanford
Cal Tech
UC Berkeley
USC
UC Los Angeles
UC San Diego
Pepperdine
UC Santa Barbara
UC Irvine
UC Santa Cruz
UC Riverside
Cal Poly San Luis Obispo
University of the Pacific
Claremont McKenna
Loyola Marymount
Biola University
University of San Diego
San Diego State
Occidental College
Westmont
Point Loma
Chapman University
Azusa Pacific
University of Lavern
University of Redlands</p>

<p>Here are the Ca Schools by SAT Order</p>

<p>School SAT 25% - 75%</p>

<ol>
<li> Cal Tech: 1470-1570</li>
<li> Harvey Mudd: 1420-1550</li>
<li> Pomona College: 1370-1520</li>
<li> Stanford: 1340-1540</li>
<li> Claremont McKenna: 1310-1490</li>
<li> USC: 1280-1460</li>
<li> Scripps: 1250-1430</li>
<li> UC Berkeley: 1200-1450</li>
<li> UCLA: 1180-1410</li>
<li>Thomas Aquinas: 1170-1400</li>
<li>Occidental: 1190-1380</li>
<li>UC San Diego: 1140-1360</li>
<li>Pepperdine: 1130-1350</li>
<li>Santa Clara: 1110-1320</li>
<li>Chapman University: 1098-1326</li>
<li>Westmont College: 1110-1300</li>
<li>UC Santa Barbara: 1090-1310</li>
<li>Cal Poly San Luis Obispo: 1080-1290</li>
<li>UC Irvine: 1080-1290</li>
<li>University of San Diego: 1080-1280</li>
<li>University of Redlands: 1080-1260</li>
<li>Loyola Marymount: 1060-1260</li>
<li>University of the Pacific: 1040-1290</li>
<li>UC Davis: 1030-1280</li>
<li>UC Santa Cruz: 1020-1270</li>
<li>Point Loma Nazarene: 1020-1240</li>
<li>Biola University: 990-1240</li>
<li>American Jewish University: 952-1263</li>
<li>Azusa Pacific: 980-1200</li>
<li>Whittier College: 960-1180</li>
<li>UC Riverside: 910-1170</li>
<li>University of La Verne: 900-1110</li>
<li>Cal Lutheran: 990-1190</li>
<li>San Diego State: 940-1160</li>
<li>Concordia University: 920-1140</li>
<li>Cal State Chico: 910-1140</li>
<li>Cal State Long Beach: 900-1130</li>
<li>Cal Baptist: 910-1110</li>
<li>Mount St. Mary’s: 900-1090</li>
<li>Humboldt State: 890-1140</li>
<li>Sonoma State: 900-1110</li>
<li>San Jose State: 860-1110</li>
<li>Holy Names: 900-1060</li>
<li>Cal State Fullerton: 870-1090</li>
<li>Cal Poly Pomona: 880-1130</li>
<li>Dominican University of Ca: 890-1100</li>
<li>Simpson University: 870-1130</li>
<li>Fresno Pacific: 850-1140</li>
<li>Hope International: 870-1110</li>
<li>Cal State San Marcos: 870-1070</li>
<li>Notre Dame de Namur: 880-1070</li>
<li>Cal State Sacramento: 840-1080</li>
<li>La Sierra University: 820-1050</li>
<li>Woodbury University: 800-1070</li>
<li>Cal State Northridge: 810-1050</li>
<li>Cal State Fresno: 800-1060</li>
<li>Cal State San Bernardino: 820-1030</li>
<li>Cal State Los Angeles: 770-990</li>
<li>Cal State Dominguez Hills: 710-920</li>
</ol>

<p>^ Based on SATs alone, USC > than Berkeley. </p>

<p>That's crap.</p>

<p>
[quote]
Based on SATs alone, USC > than Berkeley.

[/quote]

Phear likes to point to stats (such as SAT scores) that inflate USC's standing... because that's where he's a grad student ;)<br>
Too bad it's commonly known that USC uses some shady tactics in reporting some of those statistics (eg. superscoring, etc.)</p>

<p>I didn't say that SAT alone was the only indicator of a university's value. These are just the facts. According to this list Cal Tech > USC and yet I would never want to go there. I'm not making any plays for anything - I just pointed out the SAT's of each university cause I thought it would be relevant. </p>

<p>Geeze - some of you people are far too paranoid.</p>

<p>
[quote]
Geeze - some of you people are far too paranoid.

[/quote]
</p>

<p>Nah, they're Bruins...;)</p>

<p>UCBChemEGrad,</p>

<p>Keep it up, joker. Wait until the Cal trolls show up. :rolleyes:</p>

<p>^ They're already here... :D</p>

<p>1) CalTech
2) Stanford
3) Harvey Mudd
4) Berkeley
5) Pomona
6) USC
7) UCLA
8) UCSD
9) UCSB
10) Occidental
11) UCD
12) UCI
13) CSU-Cal Poly
14) UCSC
15) UCR
16) UCM</p>

<p>The average SAT scores of the USC’s freshman class may have been higher than that of UCLA for the past several years. However, I think it is hard to disavow the notion that USC’s higher SAT scores have not changed the perception of the public that UCLA is still a better academic institution. Based on my observation, I can strongly argue that the vast majority of high school students in California still prefer to choose UCLA to USC.</p>

<p>I think that there's a disconnect amongst public perceptions between SAT scores and quality of education-- and rightfully so. There is more to a university than SAT scores.</p>

<p>
[quote]
There is more to a university than SAT scores.

[/quote]
</p>

<p>So, so, true. A lot of private school students and their CC advocates don't get this. </p>

<p>Of course, USC has a lot more going for it than some other top privates.</p>

<p>There is certainly a lot more – otherwise lots of LACs wouldn't be considered so great (even though they are) nor would some women's colleges (with their ultra-high acceptance rates and surprisingly unimpressive SAT averages despite stellar academics).</p>

<p>To the point of the thread, though, my top 5:</p>

<p>1) Pomona
2) Stanford
3) CalTech
4) Claremont & Harvey Mudd</p>

<p>UCLAri,</p>

<p>I agree. However, I have met so many people in my life that love to connect the quality of a university to the SAT scores of freshman class.</p>

<p>
[quote]
I didn't say that SAT alone was the only indicator of a university's value.

[/quote]

I didn't say you did.</p>

<p>
[quote]
Geeze - some of you people are far too paranoid.

[/quote]

About SC? Never in my life. But yeah... lighten up!</p>