<ol>
<li>Cal Poly</li>
<li>San Diego State</li>
<li>Pomona State</li>
<li>San Jose State</li>
<li>Cal State Monterey Bay</li>
</ol>
<p>pomona state?
huh?
do you mean cal poly san luis and cal poly pomona?</p>
<p>yeah cal poly pomona</p>
<p>Okay, i disagree with this thread for many reasons, but i must say that the Claremont Colleges should not be lumped together as some people lump them together. It would be a comporable sin to say "the UCs," or "the CalStates." Even the Cal Polys are distinctly different. Also, Occidental is underrated by many of you raters.</p>
<br>
<blockquote> <blockquote> <p>no way. UCLA is a much better school in terms of graduate and undergraduate. the only area i can think UCSD is better is in biomed program. but for history, engineering, chemistry, english, law grad, business grad - essentially everything else, UCLA is superior. that's absurd. <<<</p> </blockquote> </blockquote>
<br>
<p>I agree with you on a lot of that, but regarding overall academics, the UCSD v UCLA debate is still a good one. Either side could be argued well. </p>
<p>I will disagree with you on engineering, though. UCSD > UCLA. Since everyone likes the horrid USNews rankings, i think UCSD was 13th and UCLA was 16th for 2005 in engineering overall.</p>
<p>Also, why does no one cite the Institute of Higher Education (Shanghai, China) rankings?</p>
<p>or how about the findings of the carnegie commission?</p>
<p>I just wanted to put in my two cents about the USC, UCSD, UCLA debate. In my mind, UCSD has surpassed USC. UCLA and UCSD are debatable depedning on the department and program. However, I think there is something very important to point out. UCSD is 40!!!!! years old. USC and UCLA are much much older. USC was founded 125 years ago. Thats over 3 times the age. UCLA was founded in 1919 (or somewhere around there) over double UCSD's age. No wonder these schools have more programs. But the fact we are comparing them, shows a great deal about UCSD. It is pretty amazing if you step back and think that in 1960, the land where UCSD is now was military training camp with nothing more than a couple barracks. </p>
<p>Now to touch on UCSD vs. USC. There are some QOL differences. USC is more urban, larger sports program etc. To me, those things seem to be a matter of personal prefrence, not really about the "quality" of the institution. Now because everybody loves US news so much, which is fundementally flawed and disadvantages all public schools because of some of the methodology, I will use there graduate rankings as a guide. The undergrad programs vary, but are tought through the same departments and the graduate rankings allow me break down the programs more specifically. (This is also fair because admissions data isn't a marker of quality. It also isn't fair to use admissions data to compare public and private universities. They have different obligations and are funcitoning on different scales. It becomes to difficult to control for all the variables in my back of the envelope approach.)</p>
<p>I will begin with the Manangement/Bus. Schools. UCLA and USC both have great programs. UCSD's program is only 1 year old. It's not fair to compare them. As mentioned before, I see this more as a function of age than anything else. You can't have everything from the get go. </p>
<p>Schools of Education. UCSD doesn't have one, but I know then have been flirting with the idea. So once again, not a fair messure unless you are hell-bent on studing education. </p>
<p>Schools of Engineering. UCSD's Jacobs School is one of the best in the country. USC's is also very well regarded. USC is ranked as 7th overall, where UCSD is 11th. Which to me is very close and almost negligable. Now looking at the program rankings. UCSD's bioengineering is 2nd nationally where USC doesn't even show up on ANY of the program rankings. Looks like a wash to me.</p>
<p>Now Medicine. SC is spanked. UCSD's medical school is 14th in the research rankings, and 7th in Primary Care. USC is 31rst and 46th respectively. Then for the specialties, UCSD is 7th for AIDS where USC doesn't show up on any of them. </p>
<p>Law. USC has a law school which is ranked 18th. Kudos to USC. UCSD doesn't have one. (maybe by the time the campus is 100 years old.)</p>
<p>Now the Sciences for Graduate Studies where UCSD really excels. For Gernal Biology, 14th (UCSD's Scripps, a specialized unit, is ranked 9th seperately) where USC isn't on the list. For Neuroscience, UCSD is 7th, and no USC. Chemistry, UCSD (Scripps is 6) is 22, USC 47 . For Organic Chemistry, UCSD (Scripps) is 2 and no USC. Computer Science, UCSD-20, no USC. Geology, UCSD- 11, no USC. UCSD is also 7th in Geophysics on the specialties list, no USC. Applied Math, UCSD 31 (not so hot), but USC not on the list. Math, UCSD 21, no USC. Physics, UCSD 16, and no USC. That one wasn't so good for USC. </p>
<p>Social Sciences. Economics first, UCSD 10th (with 2nd in Econometrics, 3 nobel laureates) and no USC. English, neither make the list. History, neither make the General list. UCSD however is 10th in Asian History, and 7th in Latin American History. Now Political Science. In the general rankings UCSD is 7th (ouch), USC is ...once again, not on the list. As for specialties, American Politics, 6, Comparative politifcs 3, and Polticial methodology 7th, thats all UCSD by the way. Psychology. UCSD 16th with USC 55th. For specialties, UCSD is 2 in behavior neuroscience and 6th in experimental psychology, with no USC. Looks like USC lost that round as well.</p>
<p>Now for Arts (clearly not UCSD's strong suit). UCSD is 34th in genral with no USC. UCSD is also 6th in Multimedia/Visual Communications and no USC. </p>
<p>So thats the end of the list. Looks like USC got pretty well shut down. Lots of "no USC's" going on. In almost everything (save general engineering) UCSD exceeded UCSD where both schools have programs and one was ranked. That is pretty intense. </p>
<p>Some more statistics. UCSD 8 current nobel laureates on faculty, USC 2 in 150 years. UCSD has two field's metal winners (essentailly nobel for math but given only once every four years), a pulitzer prize, and 6 national medal of science winners. That isn't mentioning all of the members of the national academies. Actually just for comparision USC has 44 members of the national academies of sciences and the institutes of health. UCSD has 82 in JUST the national academies of science, I didn't look up the National Institutes of Health. Also UCSD was noticed as having the 10th best faculty nationally by National Research Council. Looks like once again USC was beat. </p>
<p>So is USC better that UCSD, looking at academics, doesn't seem like it. As for UCSD and UCLA which I said I would address, I changed my mind. Lets just say its a lot closser than one would expect. UCLA is much stronger in the Arts and Hummanities than UCSD, but that isn't true in almost anything else. Once again I am trying to judge apples to apples and not compare Anderson at UCLA and Rady at UCSD because Rady is only a year old. So where UCSD competes, they are beating USC and very comperable with UCLA. In the next 20 years or so, once UCS has filled out (they are currently in their last growth spirt) you will really notice how strong the campus is. They are huge, and still very much up and coming. Its just a matter of time. After all 40 years ago, the marines were still using the campus as a firing range.</p>
<p>1) Harvey Mudd
2) Everything else</p>
<p>Of course, I am a bit biased, being an 09 Mudder myself.</p>
<p>Not to throw off the topic, but is your name Tahir by any chance and you graduated from CHS? Your name seems quite familiar to me.</p>
<p>Yes I am. I am surprised someone remembers me, I feel honored :).</p>
<p>And who might you be?</p>
<p>Name's Martin, I remember you being in the IBMYP over at CFIS, and I think I've seen you a couple times over at Centennial on the days of SAT testing. A lot of my old CFIS IB friends know you as well.</p>
<p>Man, I didn't know that USC was that old. 1880, wow! Its older than Stanford.</p>
<p>good post yeah215.</p>
<p>UCSD is definitely underrated on these boards.</p>
<p>FYI it looks like UCSD is ranked higher than both UCLA and USC in the london times and shanghai international rankings.</p>
<p>Yes in the Times of London Rankings, UCSD is 24, and UCLA is 26 and USC isn't in the top 200 INTERNATIONALLY (which is the list I tracked down). On the Shanghai list, UCSD is 10th. The list I am looking at only goes down to 10 so if I find more information then I will post it. UCLA and USC are not in the top ten either way.</p>
<p>You guys pretty much showed what UCSD education is:)</p>
<p>yeah215, I love you you rip US News and its supposed "bias" for placing UCSD below UCLA and USC (as it should be), yet find no flaws with the methodologies of the two ranking schemes you mention. Are they more perfect systems for placing UCSD higher? Let's not forget the bulk of the Time Survey is placed on research output; is that how you'd like to judge a school? If so, then UC Santa Barbara must trump Williams, right?</p>
<p>Great post yeah215!</p>
<p>The bias is in the system, not necessarily in now two indivual schools comapre. And I used the doctoral program level rankings because I like the methodology better. It doesn't include stuff like endowement. I mentioned before that you can't compare apples to oranges so I would't even include Willaims or Swathmore or any of those in this discussion. The question is which one I think is better between UCSD and USC. I picked UCSD. Rankings are flawed. Its just the best I got. I was also comparing based on the programs that both schools compete in with specialized rankings. If you don't buy, thats fine. You don't need to. I was just trying to explain why, and offer some evidence. Previously you asked for evidence, and there it is. I don't really know what to say, besides I treat all of these rankings with suspect, but its the best way I have to quantify. I just look at the numbers, not so much for the numbers but relative placement and see whats there. To me, and this may not be true for you, I see that UCSD has many high ranked programs where USC does not. So I think that means stronger programs. Ok, done deal. To me it seems UCSD has more, based on the rundown I gave above. You may want to include programs that UCSD does not offer and say there for USC is better (I don't think thats fair) but its your choice. The bottom line is this. All three of these rankings I used, Shanghai, Times of London, and US News and World Report GRADUATE programs, all point me in the same direction, so I think there is something there. If you don't, don't. But to be honest, you haven't said anything in any of your posts yet, that makes me question my conclusions.</p>
<p>FYI... UCSD has 21 members in the National Institutes of Health. The fact that UCSD is only 40 years old and ranked among schools that are over 100 years old is amazing.</p>
<p>Grouping of California Universities Based on US News 2006 Rankings</p>
<p>[list=0][<em>]Top 10: Stanford, Caltech
[</em>]Top 25: UCB, UCLA
[<em>]Top 50: USC, UCSD, UCI, UCSB, UCD
[</em>]Top 100: UCSC, UCR
[/list]</p>