<p>I think it’s tough to argue that the average student at MIT is less qualified than the average student even ten years ago, even if the argument is on the basis of the size of the applicant pool alone.</p>
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<p>Well, I completely agree with you there. I am astounded at how many people MIT has in the top 50 of Putnam these days. </p>
<p>As for my posts, I am only responding to what I’ve heard here on cc and the more recent rhetoric out of the admissions (from Jones era onward), rhetoric which I had only heard in the past from ivy adcoms. I find it curious that the attitudes seem so different from Caltech, when in the past the value system seemed indistinguishable.</p>
<p>The rhetoric of the adcoms is primarily designed to paint a picture that makes the school appealing to a broad swath of applicants. They want as many qualified students to apply as possible. This is what the school calls competing with HYPS for top applicants. From my experience, this is largely a myth. </p>
<p>At the end of the day, the school admits the same lopsided applicants it always has. And they are generally not the same that get admitted to HYP. I interviewed about a dozen top applicants from local high schools this year. Of these 3 were admitted: one was an Intel Finalist, the second had worked at MIT during the summer doing research and the third was as much a science/engineering junky as you could find, participating successfully in every competition she could get involved in. One valedictorian (admitted early to Yale) was rejected RD. Unless you demonstrate some clear math/science/engineering focus you don’t stand a chance, even if you have 4.0/2400 stats.</p>
<p>There is clearly some overlap with HYP but frankly not much, except possibly in math with Harvard or Princeton or in the life sciences, often among women who are increasingly considering MIT as an alternative especially if they are into research. Most premeds think MIT is too hard and don’t want their GPA to take a hit. Many top students who barely needed to hit the books to get As in high school don’t want the pressure of having to work hard just to get a B. </p>
<p>Where I think the rhetoric of the adcoms has paid off is in painting a picture of MIT where you can have a lot of fun while still working your butt off, where being a nerd is actually cool. This is in contrast to schools like Caltech which have not shed their bootcamp image. MIT students work just as hard, but they just seem to enjoy their experience more. The near gender parity has certainly played a major part in the image makeover at MIT. But the substance has no changed.</p>
<p>Stu Schmill said that their largest overlap is with HYP. [MIT</a> TechTV – Behind the Scenes of Admissions at MIT](<a href=“OVS | Video Detail”>OVS | Video Detail)</p>
<p>@MITChris</p>
<p>“The Institute does not discriminate against individuals based on…”</p>
<p>I think that MIT is not forthcoming enough about its policies to admit a diverse pool as part of making the MIT population what MIT aims for it to be. I think many people including some of the disgruntled not admitted applicants in this thread believe that said policies are a form of discrimination, and would appreciate better wording in the policy. Also, inclusion in the policy of affirmative action at MIT would give clarity to MIT’s position and not give a contradiction between “does not discriminate” and the affirmative action statement on the website’s clause “looks at each application holistically, taking into account… racial, ethnic, social, economic, and educational context”. </p>
<p>I think some editing of the discrimination policy that would include policies related to minority admissions would add clarity. </p>
<p>Again, thank you MITChris and your office’s efforts during these grueling months of application reading. I take no offense to my rejection and I’m happy that I was even deferred EA.</p>
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<p>I saw the clip and have been in many meetings with Stu Schmill. He does not say that the largest number of cross applicants or cross admits is with HYP. MIT does not keep track of cross-applicants, that data is simply not available. As far as cross-admits I don’t even know if they survey the admitted students every years and what response rate they get. When that was last compiled a few years ago, it did not show that the schools with most cross-admits were HYP. </p>
<p>When Stu Schmill says is that MIT’s competition is increasingly HYPS he means something different. In terms of selectivity, MIT is just as selective as HYPS and a number of MIT applicants also apply to these schools. MIT therefore competes with them for academic superstars such as Intel finalists or IMO medalists. Among its more traditional science/engineering competitors MIT sweeps most cross-admits, so MIT adcoms tend to dismiss them as serious competition. MIT’s yield has been rising steadily for the past decade while the yield has decreased or stayed stagnant at other tech schools. </p>
<p>This is very different from claiming that MIT and HYPS look for similar candidates or that they have many cross-applicants or cross-admits. We know that not to be true or MIT could simply not maintain such a high yield. If two thirds of admitted students enroll at MIT they can’t also be admitted to HYPS in large numbers. The math would simply not add up. There are still far more MIT/Caltech cross admits than MIT/Yale cross admits for instance.</p>
<p>As far as applicant overlap, over 60% of MIT students major in engineering which is not a field of strength of HYP. Conversely the vast majority of HYP applicants do not see MIT as a likely destination with well over 70% majoring in the liberal arts. Among the HYP applicants interested in science and engineering there is some overlap but that group is relatively small.</p>
<p>^But it is true (at least for the 2010 data, which I have, and which I have posted on a few occasions) that the largest numbers of admits who do not enroll at MIT go to HYPS. That doesn’t necessarily indicate that the largest admit overlaps are with those schools, but of the students admitted to MIT who choose schools other than MIT, the majority of them go to HYPS.</p>
<p>That is consistent with what I heard. MIT loses about half of its HYPS cross-admits but much less of its cross-admits with other schools.</p>
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<p>Boy, you sure showed THEM! ROFL. </p>
<p>Man, they sure dodged that bullet. Grow up already.</p>
<p>“…20k a year in merit scholarships to Cornell and Columbia…”</p>
<p>This is interesting, since Cornell claims that they do not give merit scholarships, just need-based scholarships.</p>
<p>as for Columbia:
[Prospective</a> Students | Columbia University Office of Undergraduate Financial Aid and Educational Financing](<a href=“http://www.studentaffairs.columbia.edu/finaid/faq/prospective.php]Prospective”>FAQs: Prospective Students | Columbia Financial Aid and Educational Financing)</p>
<p>“Does Columbia offer merit scholarships?
There are no academic, athletic or talent-based institutional scholarships at Columbia as all of our institutional financial aid is need-based. Our students are often the recipients of merit-based scholarships from outside organizations (state grants/scholarships, local/national merit-based awards, etc.); however, no merit-based aid is offered directly from Columbia University.”</p>
<p>I think if you get into the Davis program at Columbia they offer to cancel the loan portion of your financial aid and replace that directly with grants. </p>
<p>At least that’s how much I remember from 3 years ago - there was a financial incentive though and when we did the calculation at that time I would have been going to Columbia on a full ride (or like >95%). (I’m still paying a couple thousand dollars a year at MIT)</p>
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<p>It’s been decreasing since my year 3 years ago though…</p>
<p>That is true even at Harvard since they eliminated EA. There is more uncertainty at the very top as students play musical chairs. Princeton took the biggest hit in yield with the elimination of ED.</p>
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<p>I noticed that to, but the post in question says “merit scholarships to” not “from” Cornell and Columbia. These could easily be scholarships from outside sources that she or he uses/used at whichever college she or he now attends.</p>
<p>I realize this is an old thread, but I thought I would give my 2 cents worth. I do believe that race and family income are considered by MIT admissions. I’ve actually heard that URMs are actively recruited by many of the top tier schools.</p>
<p>Here is my story. A relative will be graduating from MIT this year. She is mixed race (Caucasian/African American) and comes from a low income household headed by a single parent. Her SATs were around 1900 and her GPA was 3.1. She was accepted at MIT much to my surprise. Oddly, she was not accepted at our state university which has much lower admission standards.</p>
<p>Her father moved out about a year before she applied to college so that she would qualify for a generous financial aid package. As a result, she received a full ride at MIT. She brags that she is able to pocket about $10K each semester with excess money from her financial aid. So she will be graduating with about $80K in cash in the bank.</p>
<p>Her financial aide required that she work each semester. She has NOT worked at all during her 4 years at MIT. She was also supposed to have internships each summer, but only interned one summer. She would come up with excuses why she couldn’t intern, such as not having transportation. While the rest of the kids at MIT were interning during the summer, she was sitting at home doing absolutely nothing.</p>
<p>She always felt inferior to the other kids at MIT saying that they were all “brilliant.” Now that she is graduating, she has no plans to go to graduate school. She has not received a job offer yet, but told us that she will make “a ton of money because I’m an MIT grad.” Her degree will be in biology. I can’t image that a BS in biology is going to land her a high paying position.</p>
<p>I assume she was admitted to MIT because they wanted to give her an opportunity to receive an excellent education. However, it seems that she has put the least amount of effort into her 4 years there. It really is a shame.</p>
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<p>That’s nonsense. The school does not send her a check. It just applied her FA against her room and board. She most likely has a campus job as part of her FA which also gets applied against her room and board. </p>
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<p>The financial aid does not REQUIRE that you work during the summer. Every FA student has a summer contribution portion that is supposed to supplement the FA. If she does not work she does not get the funds, and she has to front the contribution from other sources. </p>
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<p>How do you know that? If she able to graduate from MIT in four years, from her background, she put in a great amount of work and is certainly herself an outstanding student who has demonstrated her ability! There are no easy majors at MIT and just graduating on time is an accomplishment, especially coming from an underprivileged background. </p>
<p>I don’t doubt at all she will be able to get a well paying job upon graduation, even with a BS in biology. Many MIT students take jobs in areas such as consulting, finance or get offers from large corporations with no particular professional training. What the employers want are problem solvers. MIT has a very extensive alumni network and very active campus recruiting. As a minority with a background in science from a top school I would not worry about her, she will do very well! With a few years of professional experience she will the perfect candidate for a top business school.</p>
<p>As far as I can tell, MIT made the right choice in admitting her!</p>
<p>FORUMS NECROMANCY </p>
<p>seriously though. This thread was better dead.</p>
<p>I’m not at all sure why you felt it necessary to revive a year-old thread to inform us about an anomaly who happens to be a URM.</p>
<p>If my URM child – who was recently accepted to MIT early action – decides to attend MIT in the fall (and she probably will!), she will work as diligently as she has up to this point and will take nothing for granted.</p>
<p>If you, too, are fortunate enough to gain admission to MIT, my recommendation for you would be to not embarass yourself by attempting to denigrate the achievements of the URMs sitting next to you in class. One of them may be my D 
and I assure you that she has never been a person who “feels inferior”, takes anything for granted or “sits at home doing nothing”.</p>
<p>I apologize for my posting. It apparently has ruffled a few feathers.</p>
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<p>Ruffling feathers is not, in itself, a bad side effect. It tends to either happen when someone pushes for a good change, or when someone is acting idiotically.</p>
<p>As far as I can tell, this is the second.</p>