<p>Doesn’t look like there are any Afghans currently. I remember a different breakdown from years past. I foggily remember there being an Afghan student or two, but I can’t find those statistics. </p>
<p>I’m not sure if US citizen applicants with Afghan heritage (or dual citizenship) are tracked. If they are, I haven’t been able to find anything on it.</p>
<p>151 responses now. Paste from b4: Though there have been civilised discussions, root of the queries remain in most rejectees’ mind: how much weight is given to AA/hardships and scores/awards/ec , given an ever expanding applicant pool? Certain applicant “types” should have this presented to them CLEARLY to lower their expectations.
I got the message already, and MIT’s policy is clear. Only time will tell if their approach present them with the student population THEY want, not the population U think they SHOULD have. To the die-hard pranky high-achievers in science who were rejected, consider Caltech & Berkeley science/engineering – they are better even than the top ivies for focus,talent, staff reputation. Good luck :)</p>
<p>I think you are still a little confused. Look at the statistics about girls applying to MIT. The acceptance rate for girls is notably higher, which makes it look like it is much easier for a girl to get accepted than a guy. But self-selection comes into play in a big way. Culturally, guys are expected to be good at math and science, and girls are pushed towards the liberal arts. So the kind of girl who applies to MIT has to be pretty driven; she is going across the social grain to apply to MIT, so for her going to MIT is more likely to be a real, thought out goal. There is a large percentage of really serious girl applicants. Of course there are a ton of serious guy applicants too, but there is also that subset of guys who apply on a whim, because they want to become Tony Stark. It’s not that the admissions sees a girl’s application and immediately assumes she must be serious about math and science, it’s that the girls that apply are more likely to be serious about math and science. That’s what self selection is.</p>
<p>No one is saying affirmative action doesn’t exist. But when you are looking at the raw statistics the percentages might lead you to believe affirmative action plays more of a role than it actually does, because of non-obvious factors like self-selection.</p>
<p>First of all, I am a URM (Hispanic - Cuban) and an EA admit, so I guess my opinions are necessarily biased. (Although I also got into Caltech, which does not practice AA.)</p>
<p>So, basically, being URM or asian increases your chances by 4%. Just like being URM!</p>
<p>Also: The stats you can post easily are not the deciding factor. MIT has made it clear that SATs matter - up to a point. They don’t care if you have a 2400, but getting a low score on something that’s basically trig and grammar is worrying. </p>
<p>I got a 2200 on the SAT, and I took it once. Why didn’t I try to study more or retake it for a 2400? Because I had better things to do with my saturday mornings than take a test.</p>
<p>That simple fact alone might be what got me into MIT.</p>
<p>These are the things that don’t show up on ‘chances’ threads easily, but make all the difference in the application:
Things like owning a business or spending your time writing racist posts on CC. </p>
<p>I think these things shine through in the application, and some of you, just based on the posts in CC, deserved your rejection. Gasp! (CC Sacrilege!) </p>
<p>I know, it’s harsh, but when you see jerks posting that unless you’re URM you can’t make it in without a USAMO prize, and if you are URM then you get in as long as you have fewer than 9 D’s, then all you are doing is taking a large group of people and saying that their accomplishments are worthless because of their race. I am happy that all of the people who post comments like that seem to have been rejected:
I wouldn’t want to have to live with you, and I’m sure the adcoms got that feeling from your essays.</p>
<p>It’s easy to pick one item out and blame someone else for not getting in. I don’t mind that, I’m sure the adcoms are seen as the bad guys by 90% of the people who applied. What I do mind is when you take it out on me. I didn’t take your ‘spot’ at MIT. I earned my spot for myself - with my own blood, sweat, and homework.</p>
<p>(Because I’m sure this is going to be ninja’d several times, this is not meant for any single person, I’m just angry at the URM-bashing that goes on here in general.)</p>
<p>lol. great post. u r extremely qualified. however, it is fact that some CC-ers are posting atrocious stats and stating that they got into MIT, with sat scores more than 200 points lower than average. I do not deny that you deserve your spot, i do not deny that most people who got accepted are indeed really awesome. i concede my inferiority.
however, u said that being asian increased the chances, but that might also be because asians have better grades overall, resulting in more peolpe getting in. Not to be racist or anything, most top students in my current high school (california) are asian, and there exists little URMs up there. THUS, self selection takes place and being asian seemingly gives u an edge in application.
if MIT could release something about racial averages of sat scores, i believe many people will be more convinced. </p>
<p>btw, im an international student currenlty studying in america, so all these AA dont really affect me. even though being “international” is in fact a minority!</p>
<p>Although I know that there are plenty of URMs out there with financial stability, many URMs also tend to be rather poor. </p>
<p>Being poor means not being able to afford SAT prep courses or books, spending much of their time working to support their family, and perhaps even being the first person in their family to go to college. How you can compare the SAT score of someone like that to someone whose parents pay thousands of dollars for prep courses and tutors, who is expected to go to a top college, and doesn’t have to worry about money all the time is beyond me.</p>
<p>I know there are plenty of exceptions to this case (ORMs being poor, URMs being rich, etc, etc) but it is a sad fact that many URMs are the ones living in poverty.</p>
<p>In conclusion, releasing racial averages of SAT scores would only worsen the problem by making people think even more that admissions is purely a numbers game, and that the numbers “prove” that URMs have an edge over ORMs.</p>
<p>I didn’t apply to MIT, but I’ve been reading the related threads b/c it seemed really interesting. </p>
<p>There were 3 people who applied to MIT at my school. 2 were accepted, 1 was waitlisted.</p>
<p>Both of those who were accepted were females. One was an asian female and one was a caucasian female. Everyone at the school KNEW that the asian female acceptee had a shot. She was “The Math/Science Person” at the school (AIME, Science Olympiads, 800 on all three science subject tests, etc). The acceptance of the caucasian female surprised some people at my school. She had an SAT score of less than 2100. She was active with clubs, but nothing extraordinary. She was the type that sat in the back of the class, doing problems by herself. She wasn’t outgoing, but she was a very diligent student. </p>
<p>The guy who got waitlisted was a white high-income male. He had a private tutor for the SATs. He is the president of the class of 2010, and is in sports, has lots of friends, etc. He is smart - not denying it. But everyone could tell that he applied to MIT for reasons other than the desire to learn. </p>
<p>just because someone is poor doenst mean they should get preference. Why not make it a income game instead of a race game? AA for income brackets.
thats like saying a person who is crippled but still plays soccer, albeit really badly, should go to the world cup representing the nation.
its also like saying that a student from UCLA should get a better job than a student from MIT, because they paid less at UCLA.</p>
<p>I don’t what the context of MITChris’ post, but I’m guessing that his only point was that you can’t figure out whether one group is favored in admissions by the statistics that are released.</p>
<p>Poor people don’t get an edge in admissions. It’s how they deal with their situation that gives them their edge.</p>
<p>A crippled person isn’t expect to win the world cup, is he? Now, on the other hand, take the kid who has never been able to afford cleats or a real soccer ball or a real coach. There’s another kid who’s rich and had that professional-level coach, the 200 dollar cleats, and an endless supply of soccer balls to practice on. Don’t you think that even if the poor kid plays a little worse than the rich kid, he shows an amazing amount of talent and potential?</p>
<p>The SATs are geared towards showing admissions officers the student’s potential. The background of the student can vastly affect that score, so the admissions officers always take everything into context.</p>
<p>Can I also point out that SAT scores are most definitely not the only things that matter in the application process? In fact, SAT scores play an almost non-existent part after you hit a certain point.</p>
<p>Are you still a little unclear on as to why it would be wrong to release SAT scores?</p>
Maybe I should rephrase that part of the post:
More of the class, percentagewise, is asian than the percentage of asians who applied.
More of the class, percentagewise, is URM than the percentage of URM who applied.</p>
<p>Clearly, it is not impossible to get in if you are asian. The fact that you’re asian seems to help you. Now, we can argue that asians do better in highschool and SATs with anecdotes and stereotypes, but it still means that if you have an asian guy and a white guy, knowing nothing else about them, the asian guy has a better shot at getting in.</p>
<p>How does that mean that they’re discriminating against the asian guy? Unless, of course, you mean that you want 90% of the class to be asian, because the rest are ‘inferior’ to them. In that case, you’re still racist, and the rest of my post applies.</p>
<p>Finally, I linked to the post, you can verify the context of it yourself.</p>
<p>I thought the kids these days were supposed to be web-savvy. I’m surprised at how few seem to realize that there are people who lie on the Internet.</p>
<p>It has made me tempted to create my own sock-puppet, an accepted URM female with an atrocious profile, that I could use to get you guys riled up for a few pages, and then reveal is actually me pulling your legs. However, I suspect that half of you would either not notice the big reveal, or not believe it, which would make this conversation worse rather than better. Plus Mollie would probably get annoyed with me. ;)</p>
<p>Sigh - I’m a URM interviewer and I can tell you all to stop speculating because MIT doesn’t choose someone based on URM. MITChris was right - candidates tend to be self-selecting and the women and minorities who apply tend to be extremely focused but often - because of background - have a number of other things going on in their lives besides academics that push them over the edge in a pool where everyone’s SAT’s and grades are high.</p>
<p>I had one student brag about his straight A average (white male) and how easy work came for him. No club membership, no jobs, not EC’s (or few). Played a lot of video games. Clearly brilliant. Then he bragged about his girlfriend who had worse grades and was applying as well. Problem was - I met her weeks later (didn’t know who she was at the time). She had a part time job, was president of SADD, worked hard for everyi A and B, and had an interesting life (girl scouts, played piano, etc.) Guess who got in? The boy was not amused and assumed affirmative action.</p>
<p>Likewise, had another student who studied martial arts with her dad, was heavily involved in theater and had shadowed biochemists and done research in a town where those opportunities were hard to come by. Had enormous family support and drove 4 hours to get an interview in person. That counted. Compare that to a student whose father called and insisted I come to them for the interview (I declined) and whose student - when they finally arranged to come - showed up in ragged jeans, late, and had an entitlement attitude.</p>
<p>I’ve been interviewing for several decades and the vast majority of my interviewees are white males and asian kids. Most of them have had MIT on their “radar” since birth. But more often than not - they come with high grades and test scores and nothing else to give me/us an opportunity to weigh them against equally talented kids.</p>
<p>So don’t assume someone lost a spot to affirmative action. There were a lot of bright kids looking to get one of very few spots and that year the application just didn’t make the cut. In a different year - in a different pool of students - it might have been different. As the mix changes every year, so does that random element that makes some kids appear better suited than others in the Institutes attempt to build an interesting student mix.</p>
<p>A better view is that 16,000 students applied, and the 10% got in. That means more than 14,000 other students of all races and genders are feeling pretty disappointed. But they are still all the cream of the crop. Be proud of that even if there wasn’t space - and reapply for the next year.</p>
<p>Well, there seems to be some generalizations of your own in your post. It seems like you are stating that minorities and women lead more interesting lives, or at least that the pool of minorities and women are enriched in terms of personal qualities when compared to white males.</p>
<p>Also in the second part of the post that I quote above, what you describe is what people call socioeconomic affirmative action, not racial affirmative action. If this is truly the only way MIT favors minorities, then they should state that. A consequence of having the policy be so vague is that people will make wild exagerrations of what is going on.</p>
<p>^ I think the point was simply that students who can convey that they are a great match for MIT and would add something really interesting and unique to the class tend to get in. Regardless of who they are.</p>
<p>Mollie, thanks too for posting that information about an “unknown individual, not an admitted student” on the RD 2014 thread pretending to be an URM with low stats.
Jeez.</p>