Note I am asking this question purely from how this affects my chances of admission, not my chances to get aid.
My parents are self employed and have already filed for an extension. We sent both the extension and 2013 to IDOC. Not to get to deep into it, there are negative financial consequences if they file 2014 now and they cannot anyway because of certain accounting issues that need to resolved first (nothing bad, just the normal things they do every year).
I am still waiting to hear from almost everyone, most are Tier 1 or Ivy. None are safeties (already accepted in state and do not qualify for aid in state, would at private schools). We filed the extension request with IDOC weeks ago as well as a copy of 2013. Our IDOC shows that we still owe 2014 to at least 10 schools that requested them, including at least one I have been rejected from. However, they also said my packets were sent last week and are available to the schools.
Two different Tier 1 need aware schools emailed/mailed in the last two weeks asking for 2014. The rest, both need aware and need blind have not asked (a couple asked me to complete information or upload or email in February which I did).
I am very interested in one of the Tier 1s. The other is a backup at best although it is probably a match (but after seeing NEs results where I did not apply, who knows)
- The fact that these two schools are asking now, does that indicate interest or is this just what they do with everyone who is incomplete?
- The fact that a couple of other similar schools and ivies who requested IDOC 2014s are not asking does that indicate they have already decided they are not interested in my admission so do not need to proceed?
One email is dated 2 days before IDOC released my documents to the institutions and the other is about 10 days before.
- Do I or my parents need to call to follow up with these two schools? This is not from making sure we get aid but rather if we do not call will they view this as disinterest on our part in terms of admission? Or have they now gotten what they need from IDOC or at least the preliminary of what they need.
I just hate the idea of calling now when I am not admitted. If either of these schools end up as options we will certainly call then if there is still a problem
If someone needs to call can it be my parents? I am really bad with this on the phone. My mother is not much better and my dad is not involved in the process so we would prefer not to unless we ABSOLUTELY have to from an admission, not a fin aid point of view. Please let me know what you think
tl;dr
Just from the title, realize that the financial aid gathering process is separate from admissions. The aid people need to gather all the documents now and calculate the awards, because there isn’t time when they get the finalized list of acceptances. Do not read anything into people asking your to complete your fin aid info, except at face value they need it.
Thank you
I sort of believe that at the need blind schools. What I have heard about the need aware schools (not either of these specifically) is that after acceptances are about ready they go back and make sure the numbers are good and if they have to cut anyone, they will cut a FA student who fits in but does not add anything in terms of profile (eg not an URM, not a 2400 SAT). I do not think these emails were sent out at that point but I do wonder why the other FA offices did not send them
Should I send something explaining that my parents file extensions and why (its not a great reason but there really is nothing I can do and not much they could do either) or is filing the extension with IDOC enough
You don’t need to call. Just send emails to the two schools that inquired, stating that the 2014 return is not yet available, and it will be forwarded to the school as soon as it is.
You need to realize, though, that estimated price calculators are not accurate for students whose parents are self-employed, and your final award could vary dramatically (and potentially catastrophically) from the amount indicated in the NPC. If the schools that accept you are not able to calculate a final award prior to May 1, you could end up having to make your final decision blind - with absolutely no idea what your final award will be. Is that a risk you can afford to take?
I don’t know what “negative financial circumstances” your parents are facing, but they need to try to get their 2014 return filed ASAP, with the best estimates they can put together. They can amend later (and your aid will be adjusted accordingly, of course), but anything that’s in the ballpark at this point is better than nothing. You’ll at least end up with a pretty good idea how the colleges are going to treat business equity and deductions, even if the aid award isn’t accurate.
Does filed mean with the government or just their best guess done as a draft?
Also schools have 2013. Nothing major has changed
They cannot file yet because there are certain payments that they do not have to make until the earlier of April, October or when they file. I realize they cannot wait until October but now is not an option
I did email one of the schools two weeks ago and got nothing
These ‘negative financial consequences’ causing your parents to not file until Octobet 15 - Are you talking about the deadline for your self-employed parent to make a retirement plan contribution? If so, they can file an extension now, file the return the next day, and still have until October 15 to make the SEP-IRA contribution.
*Depositing and deducting contributions
When must I deposit the contributions into the SEP-IRAs?
You must deposit contributions for a year by the due date (including extensions) for filing your federal income tax return for the year. If you obtain an extension for filing your tax return, **you have until the end of that extension period to deposit the contribution, regardless of when you actually file the return.
Maybe @Madison85’s advice will help - I hope so!
As for whether a school will give you an estimated award based on 2013 - I just don’t know. We’ve never been in that situation. But perhaps someone else here can speak to that.
Madison85, Thank you so much. Where is that from? My parents were NOT aware of that although they have never had a need to file early before. There are still some other issues but at least we can get closer to April. Does that apply to a small business 401k as well? Also (this was their question) if they are going to be making a contribution on October 1 but are filing on 4/16 should the filing reflect their intended contribution in October or how much they have actually contributed so far (which would obviously mean an amendment if they make a significant contribution in October). Depending on how it is done that could change the amount they have to pay a lot, which seems odd if in the end they do not owe it.
It does not matter for colleges because from what they said the amount nets itself out (Mom contributes 10k to 401k, while it reduces her income for tax purposes, it gets added back in to their 2014 income as untaxed income for FA) but does matter for their taxes.
Dodger, a number of schools have said they can estimate awards based on what is on file 2013 but once 2014 is submitted the award may change and it must be submitted (depending on the school) before the award is final or before I enroll. Some other schools just ask for 2014 and do not say anything about extensions so not sure. A number of IDOC and non IDOC schools asked for 2013 to be mailed directly to them instead of IDOC
You are receiving emails from the financial aid offices because a critical component of your application for aid is missing…your 2014 tax return. Many schools look at the applications for completion before the admissions decisions are made. Financial aid has a short turn around once admission decisions are made…And some schools do some preliminary work prior to,admissions decisions. The school can’t do a thing with your financial aid application…at this point, it is incomplete.
Your issue is one of having an estimated award rather than an actual final award when you are making your matriculation decision by May 1. It is far better to have a final award based on actual 2014 submitted tax returns, than any estimates…at all.
As noted upstream, owning a business can be a huge monkeywrench in terms of aid. The net price calculators will not be accurate for you. Many schools add back in…as income…business deductions that are allowed for IRS tax purposes. They are not allowed for financial aid calculation purposes. So…this could mean that your ACTUAL awards could vary by thousands of dollars from school to school. Plus…there could be a huge dramatic change between your estimated award and your actual award.
All that being said…you are not the first family whose parents own a business, and were unable to plan to file earlier just this one year to meet the actual deadlines.
Call each school. Explain your tax filing situation, and ask THEM what to do. They will tell you.
Thumper, at this point can we wait until we get a decision which will be next week? My mom and I are too stressed out to call schools now unless it will AFFECT THE ADMISSIONS DECISION.
As in they take the lack of 2014 returns as a lack of interest or for the need aware schools (only one of which I really want), that they simply cannot calculate my need so will not accept me.
Right now I would have a large pool of schools to call, after April 1, it will be only a couple and that is if I am lucky, it may be none.
Also sometimes there is no way to do 2014 when there are accountants and other people involved and it is not just this one year, I have younger siblings and if I do get aid, it will be every year for the foreseeable future.
We got huge variations on the NPC for other reasons that are not worth going into. I am willing to take out loans for certain schools and not for others and so are my parents. I saw that about adding depreciation back in, however for the most part my parents have a lot of real expenses and if need be my parents can go through the expenses line by line IF and AFTER I get admitted.
Honestly…I do not know how a need aware school will treat your application. Need aware schools take your ability to pay into consideration when they consider your application for admission. These schools cannot compute accurately your ability to pay…your application for aid is incomplete.
If it were me, I would want to know if an incomplete financial aid application was going to affect my admissions at a need aware school. But that’s me.
I applied to very few need aware schools, I will contact those. I doubt my admission decision at Harvard will change based on my parents’ 2014 tax returns but miracles happen every day (yeah right).
Then maybe it’s time to get rid of those accountants and get new ones. If you (and your younger sib’s) want the colleges to which you’re applying to award you money, then you have to comply with the colleges’ deadlines. Clearly, your parents were caught unawares this year . . . but this cannot keep happening in future years!
For the time being, I’d strongly recommend you contact ALL the need aware schools, explain your situation, and ask them what you should do. Draft one carefully worded email and send it to all of them (separately, of course), so you don’t have to make phone calls. But if any college doesn’t reply, then you should follow up with a phone call.
I understand that not all of these schools are at the top of your list, but you really can’t afford to be that cavalier while you’re still waiting for decisions. Treat them all as important!
Dodgersmom, I appreciate what you are saying but there are other people involved. It is not a question of getting their acts together or being caught unaware. A draft yes, hence my question to Madison, an actual filing with the government today, they simply cannot until April 15 at the absolute earliest even if they had the best accountant
I have seen other threads on here that explain the situation for small business better but for people who are in small businesses and do not have great cash flow or have partners or both, they cannot just produce a document. This process is geared to people who get W2s. It is not geared to small business owners, fair or not that is how it works
The schools are expecting an actual FILED 2014 tax return. That is what they base their 2015-2016 need based aid on. Without a filed 2014 return, you will be getting an estimate only. And it could be very “off”.
If your family is OK with making a matriculation decision based on an estimated financial aid award, then fine.
At the very least…if the schools send you an estimated package, I would definitely be contacting them to find out what happens when you actually submit your 2014 return.
As an anecdote…our daughter applied EA to a school. They awarded her a $12,000 grant…we used our best estimates when completing the info for,the EA deadline…estimates for the right year…not the previous year. We filed our forms very early and updated very quickly after February 1. Our income estimate was $2000 low. When we updated, they reduced her grant to $4000…an $8000 reduction in grant aid…because of $2000 more income.
We knew this well before May 1. Can’t imagine dealing with $8000 reduction in aid after accepting an admissions offer.
Wow that is harsh. Was it need blind? That does not even make sense but I have heard of that in other situations not college related.
I understand and ultimately that may affect where I end up but for now I want as many admission options as possible, I will worry about the specific financial aid later
She was already admitted…got her acceptance in December. Got the financial aid initially in Janaury based on the estimates…and got the actual amended award in March.
@SaphireNY - I’m not unsympathetic to your parents’ situation, but they really need to find some way to deal with this for future years. (And I know they’re not the only ones in this predicament - there are plenty of small business owners here on CC!) FWIW, the only years when it really matters are the actual application years, when your sib’s will have to make their college decisions. Once one is a continuing student, the deadlines aren’t quite so stringent.
In the meantime, contact those need aware schools and update them about your situation. There’s no reason to sabotage a possible acceptance if there’s any way to avoid it.
Good luck! 