<p>Some teachers will share the rec with the students, but they are not obliged to do so unless the student does not waive the privacy rights. But then the colleges are aware that the recs are not blind.</p>
<p>Just adding - so that parents of juniors and younger do not panic - that many larger universities DO NOT REQUIRE letters of recommendation - perhaps in response to some of the issues raised here. MY son has applied to 6 universities - only 1 of the 6 actually requires a LOR. They do all expect to receive counselor recs. Certainly you can still send one even if it is not required in most cases - but I am seeing more and more large universities who do not want this additional mail - given that in most cases - it is fairly generic and does not add much to the conversation.</p>
<p>GC´s form letter is something to pay attention to. It is especially important for high schools that do not rank. GC will check off to indicate if a student has taken the most rigorous courses and what percentile a student is at. If your kid has any particular issue (hardship) it would be worth while for a GC to include it in the letter.</p>
<p>In short, most of the time, you cannot control what kind of letter the teachers and counselors write. You just hope they do the job well, and the best indicator is the number of kids that get into highly selective schools. High schools that do this on a regular basis, clearly know the ropes and your kid will likely get a recommendation that will help him/her in the process. </p>
<p>This is part of the process, that you are not supposed to be able to control.</p>
<p>I think that the vast, vast majority of recommendations are unlikely to play a major role in the decision whether to admit or not–they might if they are, in some way, different from what the rest of the application shows (for good or ill). I think that’s what jonri’s example was–a recommendation that showed something about the kid that didn’t appear in the rest of the application. I just doubt if that’s likely to be the case for most kids. As Pizzagirl suggests, what are colleges to make of the statement by a person unknown to them that candidate X is “the finest student I’ve ever taught,” as compared to a statement from another unknown teacher that candidate Y is “a very good student”?</p>
<p>If they write a short narrative on the report card as someone said, then of course you can tell what sort of rec you will get; however, most public schools don’t do this. Also, if your parent gets extremely positive, unsolicited feedback during a parent’s day (or whatever they call it, where the parents visit all the classes,) then you will know. In humanities classes if the comments on your essays are “fantastic” or “amazing stuff” rather than “good”, then that is an indicator that the same language will be in your recs. If they point you out as the smart one in class, then that is another indication. Bottom line is that you should shoot for your performance to be head and shoulders that of your peers, and eventually they may notice. If you are one of the top student in class but not the top student, it’s unlikely that you will get a rec saying you are.</p>
<p>It is not necessary to talk to the teacher after class just for the sake of “forging a relationship.” I only did it if I had real questions.</p>
<p>I’d add something. If your kid wants to go to a top school, find out what the teachers’ attitude towards top schools is. If you live in Minnesota, and your child wants to go to Harvard, you may find that some of his/her teachers think Minnesota would be just fine for your kid and wanting to go to Harvard means your kid is a snob. HYP is HYPE as far as they are concerned. Others may think you’re nuts for thinking of Williams or Amherst when you could go to UMinn (or UMich, etc., depending on where you live.) Other teachers may wax enthusiastic about Harvard or the benefits of LACs. </p>
<p>While I can’t prove it, I think the teachers’ attitudes color the LORs they write. I don’t mean teachers intentionally sandbag students. I think, though, that the teacher who really WANTS your kid to get into Harvard is going to write a better rec than the one who couldn’t care less. The teacher who thinks that LACs offer a superior education than that offered at flagship state U is going to write a different letter than one who thinks paying for Amherst or Williams rather than going to UMinn or UMich is nuts.</p>
<p>It’s a long time ago now, but I used junior year parent conferences to sound out teachers’ attitudes. I said my kid wanted to go to X school very badly and I was really worried that my kid couldn’t get in. One teacher told me “it doesn’t make any difference” and my kid would get just as good an education at SUNY Bing. Now, you may think that’s true, but I didn’t want the teacher who felt that way writing my kid’s rec. Another teacher said he thought that “X would be PERFECT for” my kid and when the time came to MAKE SURE my kid asked him for a rec. </p>
<p>So, I think in addition to figuring out how the teacher feels about your kid, it helps to figure out how the teacher feels about the colleges to which your kid is applying and whether (s)he thinks they are good “fits” for your kid.</p>
<p>I would add to jonri’s comment that you might want to avoid teachers who exhibit a reluctance to write recommendations (in general, or even more importantly, for your kid), and instead look for a teacher who is glad to do it.</p>
<p>I was fortunate to read some of my DDs LORs in HS (when collecting them to submit to outside scholarship apps), I saw what seemed to be some very good, very nice LORs, until I then read some outstanding ones. Once you know the code you can read between the lines, of course that assumes the write also speaks the code, you could could an LOR meant to be excellent from some one who does not know the hidden code words and so it could come across as just okay.</p>
<p>When applying for med school one is told to ask for a strong letter, if the prof is not comfortable writing s strong letter, you don’t want it.</p>
<p>So I have some questions:</p>
<p>How do you REALLY know who to choose in terms of someone who will write the letter?</p>
<p>For example, many colleges indicate that they only want letters from an 11th or 12th grade teacher. If you think you child’s best letter would come from a 10th grade teacher, should you go ahead and ignore the advice for the 11th and 12th grade recommendation?</p>
<p>Also, would it be wrong to have recommendations from teachers who teach the same subject?</p>
<p>What about teachers in ECs like orchestra, band, art, etc. Is it a bad idea to have one of the letters from one of them, or should it be from a purely academic subject, especially for those colleges that insist that they ONLY want two letters, nothing more? </p>
<p>Thanks.</p>
<p>Do teachers write different letters to deiffernt colleges? Don’t they have a “master” letter they send to all colleges? I don’t think my D’s teachers know where she is applying when they write letters. Many of them write them in summer before school starts.</p>
<p>I think many students use the Common App for most/many college apps. In that case, the teacher uploads the letter to the student file (via a specific link that is sent by the Common App) and the student chooses which of the recommendations to attach to the application for a specific school. For example, D had some schools that wanted only 1 rec and others up to 3. She choose the one(s) she wanted to be made available to each individual school. Typically the teachers on these recs 1) do not necessarily know to which schools the letters will be made available and 2) do not individualize them for a specific school. That said at least one of D’s teachers wanted to talk to students or have an email exchange about strengths/weaknesses and the students’ aspirations (and any special slant/circumstances to be addressed if necessary). D felt that this teacher really cared and used her letter for all applications.</p>
<p>I did not see any schools to which D applied that limited recs from teachers for specific academic years.</p>
<p>A few colleges (MIT and I think also Harvard and others) require the teacher to fill out their specific LOR form (a pain for the teachers). The top schools already get 10 apps for every acceptance… even with this hurdle.</p>
<p>My S has been very lucky with the teachers that h chose for LOR. he asked before school was out, and has confirmation from all of them that they are done. Two have forwarded copies to him, and they are everything that one could ask for, since he knows them so well. He asked for one teacher to write one specifically for his alma mater, and the others will cover service/leadership or academics. For those that haven’t shown us the letter, we can only hope that they “get” my S.
I think that as long as they speak of his work ethic, his creativity, class participation, then a letter is good. Truthfully, I wonder if an okay letter can hurt. I do think a great letter can help a bit, but it is rather the little extra that ca help a borderline application. I certainly hope his LORs from teachers make up for what will most likely be a very impersonal letter from a lazy guidance counselor.</p>
<p>Even with those specific LORs they allow the teachers to attach their standard letter to it. The rest is just checking boxes. My sons’ teachers had the complete list, but we certainly did not expect them to personalize the letters by school.</p>
<p>My impression is some letters help, some hurt, and most don’t make a whole lot of difference.</p>
<p>If a college asks for 11th and 12th grade that’s what I would give them. They’ll assume the worst otherwise. A 10th grade teacher who still knows the student through an EC might be useful for an extra recommendation however. Recommendations should be from academic teachers. Band, art etc. should only be extras unless of course you are applying to art or music schools. I think it’s better if recommendations come from disciplines and some schools (like MIT) require it (they want one humanities/social science and one science). My oldest chose his AP Latin teacher (who had had him for four years) and his Physics teacher. In retrospect I wonder if he’d have been better off with English or History. Youngest did Math and History. I think it was good for them to look well-rounded, but if a student is strongly lopsided that approach could backfire.</p>
<p>My daughter never saw any of her LOR. However, when she asked for one, she would include a resume and a paragraph explaining what she was applying for (not all were for college acceptance). She did get comments from teachers that they appreciated the effort she had put in. DD started at her HS in 10th grade, so her teachers did not know much about her otside of their classrooms(the school was a pre-K through 12, so some of the students had been around a loooong time).</p>
<p>I do think that one of the things that pays off with some prep schools is that teachers have fewer students and more time (and energy) to write letters. DD’s guidance counselor had access to first-quarter teacher comments on every report card, which made her job easier.</p>
<p>DS used his 10th grade English teacher for one recommendation. That teacher coincidentally was the 3-year advisor for two of his main ECs (where he did great things), and he knew DS very well. We never saw that letter, and it was a bit of a risk due to the quirkiness of the teacher… but I still thought it was an appropriate choice. </p>
<p>12th grade teachers just don’t know the kids well enough for a fall LOR. (And in his case, the 11th grade english teacher was not a good choice… his only Bs).</p>
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<p>I think that’s true. However, we all want our kid to be the one whose letters helped!</p>
<p>If any parent with raising junior, I would encourage your kid to make an effort in spend time with their teachers. It is hard to get someone to write a meaningful rec letter if he/she doesn’t know you well. It is the case in real life, not just in school.</p>
<p>D2 moved to a new high school last year when she was a junior. She was well liked by her teachers at her old school, she was active at her school, and was on track to take on some leadership positions at many of those activities junior/senior year. She was an unknown when she showed up at her new school. She was used to have teachers know her to be a good student from day one, it was very unsettling to her to have to prove herself all over again. I encouraged her to see her teachers outside of class, and to make a point of participating in activities which her teachers were advisors for. This may sound like kissing up to some people, but it was a way for her to be known, and she didn’t have that much time to make a positive impression She wanted to write for the school paper, but the seniors of last year didn’t feel they needed her participation. D2 then decided to start a blog for new students to introduce them to their new community (stores, restaurants, latest fashion, hair dresser), and she asked the newspaper’s advisor (teacher) to sponsor her. The teacher got to know her well enough, even though she didn’t do much for the school paper junior year, she was asked to be the editor in chief for the paper her senior year.</p>
<p>Aside from D2 reaching out to her teachers, H and I made a point of going to every (required) school meeting and parent/teacher conference. I communicated often with D2’s advisor and offered help whenever I could. Again, it could be viewed as kissing up, but it let the school know that we were concerned parents and were happy to work with the school to make sure our kid got the best education.</p>
<p>When D1 was a senior she also developed a very good relationship with her GC by meeting with her GC often. Her GC told me how she had to chase down some students just to have their required meeting, she said it was tiring sometimes. This GC really went to bat for D1 when she was WL at some of her top choices (she made many calls, even thought of driving to one school to meet with the adcom).</p>