Hello, All! My actor son is culling his college list, and has 4 Ivies: Princeton, Dartmouth, Brown and Harvard. His grades and scores are up to snuff, and he is grappling with the whole question of whether an actor is much more marketable if he/she has a great liberal arts degree to add to his/her “story.” He will also definitely apply to Julliard and Carnegie Mellon, because of their reputations. Do any of those Ivies that I cited have such terrific programs that make them super compelling? He took Yale off the list because he felt that its unwillingness to even accept an Arts Supplement as part of the admission process said a lot about its commitment to its undergraduate program. Thank you in advance for any insights!
Harvard and Brown both have very good reputations in theater. I went to Dartmouth, and while I don’t think anyone would call it a real theater school, it has some very successful grads in film and theater – Mindy Kahling, Rachel Dratch, Connie Britton, for instance – and a strong network in the business end of entertainment (that is, lawyers, agents, etc.) There is also an annual competition for student playwrights and the school hosts New York Theater Workshop each summer, workshopping six plays over three weeks in August, several of which always go on to larger scale productions in NYC. (Anais Mitchell’s Hadestown workshopped there two years ago.) The cons are pretty obvious. Hanover is not a theater town. It is not quick or easy to get to NYC from there. And the culture overall at the college is not particularly arts focused.
I see all of these schools in Playbills, particularly Harvard, Yale, and Brown, plus a good amount of Princeton and recently a few Dartmouth. I think a huge amount of value at schools like these comes from the peer group, both while in college and in the form of further connections and professional collaboration. It is not just about the training, but also about spending four years training with people who will become playwrights, directors, and producers, in addition to actors. The creative team credits are usually where you find the most Ivy League grads.
To assess, I would try to find some current students at these schools who are either majoring in theater or who are heavily involved in theater and intend to pursue a theater career (and these people will not necessarily be majoring in theater). I would look closely at the curricula, but I would also consider the overall community and peer group.
In just this past month I have seen two Dartmouth grads perform in major roles at major regional theaters. I never thought of Dartmouth as a theater school, but both of these women were excellent. One is a very recent grad and does not have an MFA. The other does have an MFA.
As you presumably know, Harvard has just started its Theater concentration, so the program will be different going forward. It certainly looks promising. The curriculum at Brown (and Harvard) looks more performance-focused than Yale. I understand your son’s hesitation about Yale, but I would also consider that attending one of these schools as a theater major is about the connections, classmates, and community, in addition to the academic program. A lot of the performance opportunities at any of the schools you mention are student-driven, not curricular. Yale attracts more than its fair share of undergrads interested in theater.
Princeton does not have a theater major, and has a less artsy overall community than Brown, Yale, or Harvard, in my opinion. However, it’s more artsy than Dartmouth and closer to New York than any of the other schools you mention. There is definitely a strong core theater community there, and they are strengthening their program. I am “guessing” that a theater major may be in the works, especially because they are building a new performing arts complex.
I would guess that Yale won’t take an Arts Supplement because they get so many students applying who are interested in theater, and their academic program is more theoretical and less practical in orientation, making a supplement consisting of monologues somewhat irrelevant. Note that one can also get admitted to Northwestern’s highly regarded performance-based BA theater major without a supplement. I’m not sure I would let the non-acceptance of Arts Supplements alone sway him too much. The curriculum itself is another matter. There are real differences among the schools you list.
Also, I would suggest he think about the overall environment he prefers. This list of four includes a school in a fairly isolated, cold location (although with a cute town), a school in a suburban bucolic location with a cute town, and two schools in urban environments, only one of which is a major city. There will be a lot more opportunities to see professional theater on a regular basis in the urban/suburban locations.
My daughter is a sophomore theater arts and performance studies (TAPS) major at Brown. Like Yale, Brown also doesn’t accept an Arts supplement for theater. Per Brown’s web site
I think Northwestern, one of the top theater BA programs in the US, also does not except theater supplements
My D is deeply immersed in theater and academics at Brown, but she does supplement her technical training through the National Theater Institute, which Brown faculty encourages and helps facilitate. There is lots of theater and film going on at Brown all the time. Jodi Foster and Robert De Niro were recently there for the Ivy League Film Festival which is held at Brown annually. http://www.browndailyherald.com/2016/04/06/jodie-foster-reflects-on-career-path-in-film-industry/
https://news.brown.edu/articles/2016/04/deniro
Per wiki:
Best of luck to your son!
Thank you, Everyone, this is fantastic information! I really appreciate it. My son had a session with his acting teacher today, and she recommended that he look at Columbia as well. Thoughts?
Of the Ivies, I would say Brown and Yale are considered the strongest in training and opportunity. Although non -Ivy, Northwestern is known for its theatre program. Northwestern didn’t require an arts supplement but my daughter just provided her monologues in a link and they did look at it (she graduates in a few days btw!).
For the Ivies besides Brown and somewhat Yale: You will find Ivy grads in many roles on Broadway, but that doesn’t necessarily mean the training brought them there.
First, there are many young people who are already actors and already represented who attend Ivies for the education. They will get placed regardless.
Second, the young people may simply have been well placed, the right place in the right time, e.g. in Columbia in the midst of NYC and making the most of the opportunity.
Third, the Ivy student may take advantage of a top internship or summer program but this you can do in any college, although perhaps the Ivy transcript made them more competitive (maybe, maybe not).
And finally, the Ivy may have a connected professor or director teaching a class or directing a student play, who by chance happens to need someone like the student for a show he/she is involved in. This can definitely happen, but it’s not a formal part of the education.
Your son has to ask himself why he is going to college. If he is going for training, he should ask himself what type he wants. Different Ivies are different in the types of training they offer. Take a close look at the curriculum. He should also ask what opportunities the college offers, if it has ties to an equity house and/or the broader theatre community, if it supports additional training in the summer or abroad, and what kind of internship opportunities and supports it has.
If he is going simply because he wants a great education and incidentally wants the chance of theatre opportunity but not necessarily rigorous and broad training, he would have a wider net.
My thoughts are it’s a fantastic university, but make sure your son fully understands what’s involved in Columbia’s rigorous core curriculum, and that he visits Barnard College, because all of Columbia U’s undergrad theatre classes are taught through and at Barnard college by Barnard professors.
Thanks again to all. My son understands much better now that he must review the curricula. I just downloaded the undergraduate TAPS handbook for Brown, and will do the same for the other schools. One thing he’s having trouble discerning is the actual methodologies used (e.g., Meisner, etc.); perhaps those specifics need be asked of the school.
He really does want excellent training, and Northwestern will be on his list as well. Any more information on its undergraduate program? Am I correct that you enter the School of Communications and then audition at the end of the your freshman year for the acting program?
Outside of these BA programs, which BFA acting programs outside of Julliard and Carnegie Mellon does the group feel are as worthy? Any in London? He has had a lot of training already, and worries that some of the schools will be teaching to the lowest common denominator in the class, and he will not be challenged.
Also, any thoughts on BFA Acting versus Musical Theatre? He’s leaning toward the former because it seems more broad, but he does sing and dance.
Throwing a lot of questions out there for this wonderful group!
Thanks so much.
According to my daughter there is no preferred method - in keeping with a liberal arts education, they try to give you a wide range. She suggested reaching out to Brown profs Kym Moore and/or Connie Crawford for specifics.
Best of luck with his search!
This is an older article but it may help you answer your original question - Level of Training at the Ivies?
http://yaledailynews.com/blog/2012/04/23/up-close-for-thespians-yale-degree-not-enough/
Yale’s reputation as a theater program is for their graduate school. The Yale School of Drama is their MFA program, not undergrad. I’m not discounting the education that a theater student could get at Yale, but when people talk about their theater reputation, they’re referring to grad school.
@TheatreMom21 Deciding among BFA Acting, BA Theatre, and BFA Musical Theatre is a lot to think about, especially this close to application and audition time. If you have not already done so, I would suggest that you and your son consider speaking with a few national audition coaches to get a strong understanding of the different types of programs and specific schools, and also to assess his level of competitiveness, especially for MT. If you are not already familiar with the national coaches’ names, these include MTCA-Ellen Lettrich, Mary Anna Dennard, MCA-Chelsea Diehl, Halley Shefler-ArtsBridge, and Dave Clemmons.
One approach, if he feels he really could thrive in any of these environments and sees pros and cons to each, is to apply to a range of schools in all three categories. But that is going to be quite a lot of work. So the more he can narrow down what he really wants, the better. Of course, it’s hard to narrow down options too much when admissions to all three of these types of programs are so competitive. I’m sure you have some likelier BA options on the list, as well.
There have been a few recent threads on this board about Acting and Theater programs for strong academic students. You can search the threads from the past few months and perhaps find some more specific suggestions.
UNCSA has similar training to juilliard and CMU for bfa acting. Many kids apply to all three and hope for one acceptance. All are very rigorous conservatory training. Even CMU doesn’t have a lot of academic requirements - so not much different.
@TheatreMom21 These threads might be of interest to you:
http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/theater-drama-majors/1855174-theater-programs.html#latest
http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/theater-drama-majors/1841939-brown-vs-wesleyan-p1.html
A couple of things–
- "Am I correct that you enter the School of Communications and then audition at the end of the your freshman year for the acting program?" No, you only audition for the MT program, not the acting program. You're admitted to the acting program. You may be interested to know as well that Northwestern just started the Acting For Film module, which can be added to the Acting major. My D is in the first class to graduate with this module. Please feel free to pm me with any questions overall about the NU acting program.
- UNCSA is excellent. There are many other top BFA programs, e.g. Tisch. But may I recommend you take a step back and really figure out what your son wants.
You say he’s applying to Ivies ‘because of their reputations.’ Reputations in what? They are most certainly not all created equal in acting training. That may be fine for you son, depending on what he wants. Or it may not be fine. He needs to figure out what sort of training he wants, and what each Ivy provides. They are quite different from each other, and each has very different opportunities & training. (Btw, yes, Yale is known for its MFA program, but a student in its BA program can take advantage of opportunities afforded by being at a school that houses a top MFA program.)
Again, I want to stress the dangers of saying, “Oh look at this Playbilll–Jane & Bob both graduated from Ivy U! That must mean Ivy U has a great program!” No, it doesn’t necessarily mean that at all. Bob could already be a B’way actor with a top agent, for instance, & Jane could be the daughter of a B’way producer, etc. You really need to look at the training and opportunities the program itself provides.
But also: you list conservatories, which are *extremely * different from Ivy or NU training. I wouldn’t apply to Juilliard or CMU just because what the heck. He needs to take a look at these programs and decide if this is what he wants. If it is, he can figure out what similar programs he wants. My own son is at LAMDA in the UK (yes, there are several top UK conservatories) He is in class roughly 60 hours a week, and does an additional 15-20 hours a week outside class. It’s extremely rigorous in acting training (including singing, dancing, writing, film, etc). It is much more like a craft-intensive apprenticeship. Please feel free to PM me with any questions about the particulars, but my point is that a conservatory approach is fundamentally different from going to, say, Columbia. And going to Columbia is very different from going to, say, Northwestern.
You can find a lot of information about the particular program by going through the college’s own website and taking a look at their curriculum and policies. Your son should also ask what his goal is in going to college, as that would help in narrowing things down. Finally, you say your son already has a lot of training–Many students enter programs with a lot of training. Most programs are designed so that a student can take from it whatever they need at the level they’re at.
Good luck in figuring all this out 
Well said @connections
This is all incredibly helpful; I am so grateful to all of you who are responding.
My son will hopefully also be gaining some clarity this summer by attending two programs: First, he’ll spend the first two weeks of July in Ann Arbor at UMich’s MPulse Theatre and Drama Program. He has a friend doing MPulse MT, which I hope will help him draw a comparison and see if he misses the singing and dancing components. Secondly, he will spend the first two weeks of August in London at LAMDA’s Introduction to Drama School.
When he’s in London, are there other conservancies to see? He’s going over a week early. The Hollywood Reporter ranks RADA, Guildhall, Drama Centre, Bristol Old Vic and Royal Central School in its top 25.
Many thanks for your continuing advice and insights!
You’d be hard pressed to find programs discussed on these CC theatre forums that teach “to the lowest common denominator in the class.” As mentioned, most of the students in these programs have a lot of training and experience (including professional experience). Also, many students who enter BFA programs and intense BA programs are driven, curious, focused, and enjoy intellectual stimulation, and that includes students at true conservatories, conservatories within a LAC/university with few general education requirements, and those with many general education requirements.
There are many worthy programs, including those outside what some consider the tippy top tier; it just depends on what your S thinks he wants. Be careful about placing too much emphasis on lists of “best” places to study; who even creates these lists, anyway, and what metric do they use? (Almost every time a new list comes out, it gets discussed a bit on this forum, with the conclusion that the lists are a bit–or more than a bit–dubious.) It takes a long time to create a list of schools to which one wants to apply, but that is because there are so many options, and one must really match those options to what the student thinks will fit. Some questions he can ask himself:
What would be the ideal amount of time spent in major coursework and in general education requirements for me?
Do I want to be able to delve deeply into another area of study besides theatre?
How would I like acting classes to be approached (emphasis on certain philosophy or tool box approach–ascertained through websites, asking faculty, asking here)?
Would I like the emphasis to be on acting, singing, or dancing?
Would I like to be in a rural, small town, or urban location?
Etc… A college audition coach can help you figure this out if he’s having trouble.
It’s important to note that sometimes people change their minds about what they want throughout their audition year. So, it’s ok or even good to have a list that leaves possibilities open. (For example, my D knew she wanted a BFA conservatory approach with few gen eds. She thought she wanted to be in large town or urban location. She wanted a toolbox approach to acting. Etc… She did audition and was accepted to one 2 year program in case she decided to go that route, and, until fairly late that fall, she did have an overseas option on her list, but decided against that, even after re-thinking the option at Unifieds.) Just try to narrow down what your S thinks he’d like now and keep an open mind.
I would also say to cast a wide net if doing audition based programs. None of them are safeties. Schools like Juilliard have less than a 1% acceptance rate into the BFA program and many others have about a 5-8% acceptance rate (or less). Just make sure to have a list with a true safety that doesn’t require an audition, that your son can definitely get in academically, go to financially and is willing/excited to attend. It can be a hard combo to get. Sounds like your son has great academics…but many kids with top academics (valedictorians for instance) get turned away from schools. It isn’t fun to hear, but better to have some safeties and not need them vs. only applying to the “best” and not having choices. Again, good luck! Sounds like your son is doing great things this summer and will get lots of input from the two programs he is attending.
@TheatreMom21, all the UK programs you list are excellent. (Like Juilliard, most of their acceptance rates are less than 1%) However, some of the UK programs don’t accept Americans for their BA degree, for instance Bristol Old Vic. Others rarely accept Americans. Many require a callback in the UK, something you might consider. Most do not include dorms or food; students live in flats and have to be very independent. Also, many don’t accept FAFSA. LAMDA does but others don’t. It’s almost unheard of for Americans to get scholarships, as well. So if finances are an issue, you might take all this into account. Oh one more thing–UK programs (except for a very few) don’t differentiate between MT and straight acting. They do both. Please feel free to pm me with specific questions.
Since he’s going to several terrific programs during the summer, this may well help him figure out what he wants out of college.