I only read CC from time to time because it’s fascinating. My daughter is in 8th grade, so there’s plenty of time, especially as we won’t be pushing a tippy-top school. I have been told politely to “chill” and come back in a few years.
However, reading the “race” forum, I wonder if I’m really so premature in wanting to understand this process early on so I won’t be shocked in a few years; our daughter was adopted from China and we are Caucasian parents.
If I’m understanding correctly, she will have more hurdles than a white student of a comparable educational attainment to get into her “dream school” (whatever that will be) because she will be competing with other Asians, rather that other applicants as a whole…?
Is the above situation only applicable to tippy tops and strong STEM schools, or true across the gamut of colleges? I had imagined that a good fit for her might be a top 100- ish LAC, or a CTCL school. If that is less likely because she is Asian I would prefer to know that now.
While bright, competent and a voracious reader, she’s an easygoing American kid… She makes all "A"s, but some on the lower end. I can’t see her pushing 800s on SATs. We have brought her up to be conscientious but not super-driven, as some Asian-American families are reputed to be. She’s more of a verbal/social kid than STEM. I anticipate she’ will likely be an A- (maybe B+) high school student as academics get harder. I’m bracing myself for the possibility that what would have been a comfortable “match” school for her (were she white) will be a “reach school” since she is Asian, and an otherwise “safety” will be her only match. Anyone knowledgeable about this?
Yes, she will be considered as an Asian applicant. However, take note that Asians make up only around five to six percent of the US population, and they still make up over twenty percent of top colleges. Push her to take more rigorous courses and get As. Get her to do debate and MUN if she enjoys talking more than math. If she does the right things, she will not be disadvantaged.
prof2dad, and PrimeMeridian, those are things I’m wondering, as her mom. I read cautionary tales on CC not to “push” your kid beyond his/her temperament and aspirations, but it seems like that may be necessary for an Asian student wanting to keep up with white peers of the same calibre. I want my daughter to do well, but a healthy balance of school, friends, family and fun IS important. I would say that sacrificing that balance or giving up the types of EC’s SHE likes best because she is Asian (if that’s the case) could be seen as a type of disadvantage. I’m not protesting that disadvantage here (can’t do anything about it if it exists, except take hhijalala’s advice) but just wanting to know if it is true with all LACs or just the tippy-tops so I’ll know what she’s up against.
@inthegarden you should know that @hhjjlala is a high school student before you start taking his advice to ramp up your daughters rigor and activities.
You should let your daughter be herself. Have her take courses that will challenge her. Trust yourself to know what level is appropriate for her. Don’t get caught up in the race to have the most APs and the best ECs. She may be slightly disadvantaged because of her race, but it is what it is. You can’t change it, so there is no reason to fret about it. And relax and stop worrying about colleges for a couple years.
PrimeMeridian, just re-read your response…not really arguing for anything, just wanting to know the reality. However, in an ideal world I would like race not to be a factor at all in college admissions, though I understand there are complex and, in some ways, justifiable reasons it has become so. I take it for granted that race differences in academia are all about culture and not biology. Therefore I’m not saying she should be held to a lower standard than other Asian kids. I’m thinking it would be great if she could be held to the same standard as any kid of any race with her equivalent level of achievement (or lack thereof.)
Maybe it would be best for her to simply checked the “human” category under race, in future college applications.
Asians who have 2400s can get rejected from every reach they apply to. There was one guy in the class of 2020 who got rejected by every Ivy League with perfect stats and superb extracurriculars… even though he was from an underrepresented state: Arkansas. Yes, spending time wih family and doing what she loves will go far more than a perfect score. I did not mean to imply that average stats will disadvantage her, but OP should motivate her daughter to try her best. However, also know that the average test scores for Asians are significantly higher than those of other races. Also know that the lower the selectivity, the higher chance OP’s daughter has for admission with the better stats. Sorry if I’m a little confusing
Thanks, hijjilala…I think I understand what you’re saying. Just wondering if the disadvantage to Asians lessens significantly at less prestigious, but still very good schools. I don’t care so much about the prestige factor. I just hope for a nice college where she is appropriately challenged…and not at the 95% of a mediocre (for her) school where she will be bored. We live in a small-town, predominately white area. She is used to being treated like everybody else and really hasn’t experienced the realities of racial discrimination “out there” in a personal way yet. I’m just thinking about preparing her for that less sheltered reality. It would be heartbreaking to see her classmates of approximately the same academic level go off to schools that are impossible for her.
@inthegarden: I think there is a difference – and I do not agree that your daughter will be simply considered “an Asian applicant”. She is not in a family with Asian parents. She is not an international student applying from Asia. Her situation is a little different. Yes, her birthcountry is China and that ethnicity is part of her – but I do not agree that she has a big disadvantage here. You might want to connect with some of the parents on the thread called “Internationally adopted kids applying to college” (I think that’s the title). Sometimes the immediate, “expert” answers that people get to their questions on this forum should be taken with a largish grain of salt.
Several years ago, over on the Prep School side of this forum, I was told by some posters that my adopted-in-China daughter was at a big disadvantage for gaining admission to selective prep schools. “She’s an ORM (over-represented minority)”, someone said. “There are tons of Asian applicants, and unless she has all As and incredible test scores and ECs, she really doesn’t have a good chance of getting in, especially if you need financial aid.” I am happy to tell you that NOTHING could have been farther from the truth.
Let your girl be who she is and engage in the activities that she enjoys and is passionate about. I admit that there are times when I have overthought this as a potential issue as well… but my kid’s school’s college counselor assures me that this is not an issue we need to focus on.
I have 2 daughters adopted from China. I was so neurotic about college admissions once my oldest daughter hit eleventh grade. My intention was that they attend only the very best schools. Brown had everything I wanted for both my daughters. In hindsight, I lost out because I put way too much pressure on my daughters, especially my older one. It impacted our relationship and my daughter became really stressed. In hindsight, I wasted 2 precious years thinking only about college admissions. Now, they are both in excellent schools, (not Brown, but close enough) and I wish they lived closer to home because I miss them so much. It probably doesn’t matter as much as we think, as long as, our kids are happy and grounded. Its a rat race to nowhere that robs our kids of quality relationships and family bonding.
Schools that admit purely on stats are going to be the only schools where any given kid will have neither advantaging nor disadvantaging characteristics.
There are plenty of colleges where Asian kids are not overrepresented. There are plenty of colleges where women are not overrepresented, and plenty of colleges where people from your geographic area are not represented. She’ll have an advantage over non-Asians / men / people from other areas when applying to those schools.
As the white mom of a kid who will be checking the Asian box, my advice to you would be not to go looking for trouble. There are many reasons why a kid would or would not get into any given school, and no good is going to come from envying others’ acceptances.
Thanks, namaste19, for your story. Nothing more important than happy and grounded. I hope you are able to feel close to your daughters through skype, etc. and maybe you will be so lucky that they will eventually settle near you!
Though it seems I must be obsessive and neurotic (or why would I be looking at CC at this stage!) I’m trying to get learn about the process bit by bit early on so I WON’T have to spend every moment of her last years home stressing about the process or wishing I had known things. I’m benefitting fro the hindsight of all of you. Plus, I have a number of friends with high school and college-age children so the subject piques my curiosity. I’m most interested in “fit” and the vibes of different schools. I think I would have enjoyed being a guidance counselor…
Don’t worry about what you can’t change. There are no quotas, and no group is considered separately, although colleges do aim for a ‘balanced’ class in terms of backgrounds, states of residence, talents, etc. I am sure that colleges would deny discriminating against any group, although it may happen sometimes anyway. (After all, the holistic admissions practice was invented when Jews were outperforming WASP’s and schools were worried there would be too many Jewish students if only tests and grades were considered. Today, Asians are a high performing minority, just like Jews.) Of course, if you are worried, you could check the box choosing not to share your background. (But I think she should still go on interviews, because showing ‘interest’ is important at many colleges.)
Your daughter should apply to a mix of reaches, matches and safeties, just as any student should. I would not hold her back from applying to any schools based on fear of prejudice. If she is a strong candidate, she may very well get into one or more of the schools you fear will reject her. Anticipating mistreatment by others and limiting yourself because of that fear seems a poor strategy as well as a bad life lesson for her.
Encourage her to apply to a mix of schools that appeal to her.
Good advice, allyphoe…just a little correction though…if I imagine the worst-case scenario (whicht I hope won’t happen) it’s not a feeling of envy toward others I feel in my gut (I’m not a particularly envious person) it’s more a feeling of grief/loss/dismay . I’m really quite egalitarian and more of a win-win kum-ba-ya person who wishes everyone could have what is needed and desired. I do celebrate others’ successes quite sincerely.
GreyKing, thanks…though if Asians are at a disadvantage ,I’m not personalizing it enough to think of it as deliberate mistreatment…let alone pass that on to her, just aware of the reality of numbers, and schools looking for that ideal balance of racial diversity in an imperfect world. Believe me ( I have worked in developing countries) I know that my daughter is a privileged person compared to most young people on the planet. I am simply trying to educate myself on the realities of college selection so that I will not be surprised when the time comes. LOL, her last name is recognizably Jewish (her dad’s, not mine) though she is not being brought up in the tradition. She is very much herself, a mix of several cultures.