<p>I know this topic has probably been beaten to death, but i also wanted to add on schools where double majors are actually viable. I am a High School Junior right now, and am a French Horn player. My teacher has faith in me that I can potentially compete for admission to any of the country's top music schools, and I am stalwart in my love of music. No need to question whether I'm committed enough to music to handle an intense music major (performance btw). However, I do have a love for history/english as well, and would not wish to give them up to go to a conservatory, or a school at which it is virtually impossible to double major as a music performance major. I live in New York, and wish to stay in the east coast region, though i would also consider such programs as Rice in Houston, Texas. I am willing to considered schools as far west as Ohio, as far north as Upstate NY to Maine, and as far south as Florida. Here are my certain academic things to aid in any advice:</p>
<p>SAT: (I intend to take it again as the CR is about 80 points below my psat grade)
CR: 690
Math: 660
Writing 790
total: 2140
Cum GPA: about 4.0 on a 4.33 scale (works out to an A or about a 96ish average)
Class Rank: dont know yet but probably in the top 10 in a class of 400ish, give or take.</p>
<p>psat-
217 out of 240 (comparable to the SAT by multiplying by a factor of 10)
(99th percentile)
Possibly a National Merit Scholar (havent found out yet)</p>
<p>In your case, I would look at Oberlin and consider Bard. My experience is in strings. I'm not that well versed in the competitiveness of horn programs in general, but am of the assumption that Rice may be one of the toughest admits for undergrad horn.</p>
<p>sounds like you would have a good chance at admission in the double-degree program at Oberlin -- it is a doable program. Oberlin has excellent English and history departments, with high proportions of students going on to graduate study; it also has lots of performance opportunities for winds, including the Oberlin Wind Ensemble directed by Tim Weiss, that plays new compositions in performances three times a semester.</p>
<p>Definitely look at Oberlin, the NEC/Tufts program, Bard (ask pointed questions about their ensembles if playing in a full-sized symphony orchestra is important to you - at least a couple of years ago their largest ensemble was more like a chamber orchestra in size, it may be larger now), and the program available at CIM/Case Western. Possibly also Eastman/U Rochester, but I do not know how many they admit to a dual degree or dual major program, and what their graduation rate might be.</p>
<p>Rice is a very tough admit and some of the music teachers there do not want their students doing anything but music. I am not sure whether or not that describes the horn teacher(s) there. The NEC/Harvard program as well as the dual degree programs at Juilliard and Peabody admit very small numbers and even fewer complete those programs. The last time I looked at the music curriculum at Carnegie Mellon, it had almost no room for anything else so a double degree would be really hard there. Curtis allows you to take some classes at Penn, but I have never heard of anyone doing a dual degree through that program.</p>
<p>I am not familiar with the quality of the horn teachers, but you may want to give U Maryland and Boston U a look as well.</p>
<p>West of Ohio by several hundred miles, but how about Northwestern? The English/history interests might be better served there than at Case Western where the sciences are particularly strong.</p>
<p>Historically strong horn dept. Don't know current inside info - should be easy to check on faculty.</p>
<p>Don't forget to include schools on your list that are more likely acceptances (both musically and academically) than the fine programs listed above! (Safeties, in other words.) Univ. of Miami and Univ. of Maryland, College Park come to mind - I'm sure you can think of more.</p>
<p>Also, the midwestern state flagships all have people double majoring - U Michigan, U Wisconsin, U Indiana, U Illinois. They are a few hours west of 'Ohio', but what difference does that really make?</p>
<p>o saying as far west as ohio was just a ballpark figure. it doesnt matter, i mean i just dont what to go to say California. But thats guys, actually a lot of the options listed above are schools i was already examining. Also as far as the SATs go, im going to retake um as my CR was 80 points lower than on the psat, and ill see if i can break 1450 this time, which should help a bit in the admissions and financial aid. does any1 know a lot about the NEC/Tufts and NEC/Harvard programs. id be very interested in attending such great liberal arts/ music programs, but how viable are double majors. And as was aforesaid, i do fully intend to consider other, safer choices as well. i will probably limit applications to about 7, with maybe ithaca or something as a safety. i dont know, i guess if i wasnt still think about it a lot i wouldnt have posted on here.</p>
<p>This is what I know about Harvard-NEC: you must be admitted to both, which in itself is quite a tough thing to accomplish. Then, you apply for the double degree program from there. They take about 5 a year. The program involves a BA at Harvard, MM at NEC (this is different from Tufts, which is a BMus/BA program), so lessons at NEC for 3 years (at an added cost of $6,000 above Harvard's $47,000 or so tuition and housing), then MM program. You could simply go to Harvard and find a teacher at NEC, which many students have done, and then apply for an MM program. Harvard also lets you take 5 years for the BA if you want to pursue music while there, but that is another $50,000 for the fifth%2</p>
<p>There are numerous prior references scattered throughout in various threads.</p>
<p>The general consensus is that the programs are a) extremely competitive academically; b) some of the toughest admits musically c) extremely limited in numbers and d) can be logistically challenging.</p>
<p>At Harvard, there is an excellent music department, but it is proudly academic-only; there is a pianist on the faculty who sometimes teaches students, Robert Levin, a famous fellow, but other musicians are adjuncts, who coach chamber groups, etc. There is a lot of extracurricular student-run music at Harvard, several orchestral groups of varying quality including BachSoc, a Piano Society with concerts, concerto competitions. Yo Yo Ma went there, famously; John Adams went there; some conductors went there -- it is a hotbed of smart, energetic, creative people who spend a lot of time in extracurricular pursuits. But it is not supported by the music department, financially or otherwise, to any significant extent. They took a long time to start the NEC program because they resisted diluting their own extracurricular activities by having top students go off to NEC, but now, it seems, they see it as a draw for certain students. You would be on your own to figure out how to work it out. Columbia also has music opportunities for its students, but, again, through adjuncts; its orchestra is ok, and it has some good chamber music opportunities, but it is a pretty small bunch of folks who do it year to year. It just is not the same thing as being in a school with a conservatory, and with other kids in significant numbers doing the same thing. One kid at Columbia-Juilliard complained that finding a practice room with a piano was like a homeless person looking for a dumpster, perhaps a reflection of life in upper Manhattan...</p>
<p>Yale -- that is something to look into; I've known many good musicians who got into Juilliard, etc. and chose Yale, even though the School of Music is graduate only. Students in the college can get lessons through the School of Music. Most are with graduate students. A few get lessons with faculty (usually lower level faculty). At the junior year, you can apply for a BA/MM program, where you go on to finish in the School of Music, which is tuition free (like Curtis). There are many performance groups; again, as at Harvard, it is student initiated and run, for the most part -- there are some terrific musicians and they feel they are doing a lot of good performing. The academic courses take up a lot of time, though, as they do at Columbia and Harvard, so the reality is that practicing, especially during exam times, is going to be a second priority. There are students who are successful at Yale, Harvard, Columbia and go on in music. It can be done. But it is unusual and difficult.
Princeton has some pretty good music offerings, including free lessons with adjuncts; a few kids go all the way to NY for lessons, but that's a tough trip to make very often in winter. Also some very talented musicians there. Great music department, but, again, strictly academic in focus.
For all of these schools, it looks to me that being a top-notch musician is a definite boost for admissions, so long as you also have top-notch academic credentials. Your scores are probably too low -- I'd think you need at least 700's in every SAT category and some high SAT II scores and AP scores.</p>
<p>If you did look in California, your best option would be USC -- Thornton School of Music, and USC for academics. They are generous with scholarships, especially if you are a national merit finalist. USC gets mixed reviews as a academic institution; some say it is up there with UCLA, others have an ongoing bias against it, from when it was thought of as "university of spoiled children." UCLA and some other UC's have music performance degrees (UCSB, UCSD, UCSC, UCI) and you could do a double major, but they are not as highly regarded for music performance. There are few private colleges in California, and of those, fewer with good music. Maybe the Claremont consortium would offer some possibilities, but it is not really an optimal place for serious performance.</p>
<p>We just returned from Boston and my son spoke to the Music Dept head at BU - he said you can minor in performance but cannot double major - their music program is too demanding. Ithaca you must apply as ONE major - so if you want to double major - you would apply to the harder program (music performance). I do know a friend of my son and daughter is a music major there and he finds it is very demanding and little time for a second major. Cornell you could double major in music and another major. My son is in the same boat interested in double majoring (math and music performance). Also, Carnegie Mellon does offer a dual degree program BHA and BSA - Bachelor of Arts and Humanities and Bachelor of Science and Arts. Case Western (which we haven't looked at yet) has a program with Cleveland so you can dual major.</p>
<p>Even at schools that do offer double degrees, apart from considering the physical logistics when the schools are not on the same campus, for all of the schools with such offerings, you have to keep in mind how limited your course choices outside the two majors will be, even if you have several AP's and the school takes AP credits for breadth requirements. It is unusually easy at Oberlin to have double majors in the college; many students do (read the obie blogs for a discussion of this). But to do a music degree in the conservatory and any demanding other degree in the college in 5 years, you have to really be careful about planning (some courses in LAC's are offered only every other year, for example), especially if you don't have AP credits. You could simply major in an academic subject at a college or university and do a lot of music on the side, including theory and aural skills courses and private lessons, and participate in ensembles and orchestras. The actual degrees are not necessarily important if you don't plan to go on for an MM, for example, or even if you are...I've known students who majored in an academic subject at Harvard, kept playing their instruments, and went to Yale for MM degrees. There are lots of possibilities. Just think carefully about what the reality of the experience will be, and if it is practicable, what you want to do, and if you could pull it off successfully, including financially.</p>
<p>Just going on your nickname--Oberlin will really want you if you play football--I think my son got offered a huge scholarship to Oberlin because of that. They don't get many athletic boys applying there! They may also have a lacrosse team. But of course, that means you have to play the sport there, which is tough if you want to double major.</p>
<p>It will be a good idea to find out how many music performances majors at a school are doing double degrees because that will give you some idea of just how flexible, manageable, do-able the program will be. We found Oberlin, Northwestern and UMich very friendly to doubles, Rice was NOT...many Shepard teachers don't allow their students to do double degrees; Eastman-Rochester is also fairly difficult. You will compound the difficulty if you try for a double at two separate schools (NEC-Tufts, Columbia- Julliard) even if you do manage to get into their programs.
Also, be careful, most music PERFORMANCE degree programs (BM) don't really include double MAJOR options, but rather involve double -DEGREE programs with a BM and BA. AND most double degrees really require 5 years.</p>
<p>At Northwestern, there are three dual-degree programs for music students (Programs</a> of Study, Bienen School of Music, Northwestern University). One of the two Rhodes Scholars at Northwestern this year is a triple-major in piano performance, biochemistry, and "history and philosophy of science and logic".</p>
<p>I believe we've crossed paths before on an earlier thread. Bard's program is still quite new, and as a New Yorker you are probably aware that Julie Landsman is a very selective teacher. I cannot speak for this year's cycle, but last year we had 11 applicants on horn and she accepted 1. Faculty are not under pressure to accept students they're only lukewarm about in order to fill a particular quota. The way this affects the orchestra is that in some limited sections we hire professionals to play along with the students. However this does not affect programming considerations--last semester, our orchestra rehearsed and performed Engima Variations, Tchaikovsky 6, Beethoven 4, Rachmaninoff 2, as well as other works. This semester our two concerts are anchored by Bartok Concerto for Orchestra (led by Leon Botstein) and Dvorak 6th symphony (led by Gisele Ben-Dor).</p>
<p>However it is a small program--there aren't 15 horn majors, BMs to DMAs, wandering about. But without graduate students, the focus is then on you as an undergraduate, with significant performance opportunities (and no rotations in and out of ensembles). With your academics you are certainly in the ballpark for Bard College--and since all conservatory students pursue the double degree, there isn't any sort of distinction from administrators/faculty/peers, parsing you as the double-degree student into some other category of musician.</p>