I just want to clarify something. In a liberal arts college setting, whether or not you major in music is most likely irrelevant in terms of access to the best ensembles etc. It is when the liberal arts college also has a conservatory.
A history or economics major who practices and studies with a teacher can play at the same level as a music major. A BA music major at an LAC is an academic major involving music history, theory, composition, ethnomusicology etc.
But when there are students on the same campus doing a performance BM degree, that can sometimes mean less access to the best musical opportunities or teachers- but not always, so it is worth checking out each individual school.
Also some schools have “low walls” between conservatory and college which means switching from one to the other is not burdensome and that often a double degree is possible (I have heard this about Oberlin).
Clark University, Vassar, Skidmore, Connecticut College? But you are not really looking for more schools, right? Best way to get info on orchestras at the schools you already have listed would be to attend a concert, or, maybe there is something online on youtube or soundcloud etc.
I would say St Olaf is much better for music, so that if someone is really interested in good quality music with or without the idea of majoring in it, they’d pick St Olaf over Carleton in that respect. French is pretty good and they have Foreign Language Across the Curriculum, meaning students can take History classes with a French component taught in French, for instance.
The atmosphere is very different from Carleton. Carleton is intellectual and quirky. Its academic rigor is definitely higher than St Olaf’s, although St Olaf is no slouch. But they wouldn’t jump into “naked frisbee” after arguing over printing fonts. Carls are very smart and can be quite silly :p, and unlike their counterparts at Eastern SLACs they’re very down to earth. Both colleges are, actually. Both lean liberal on the political spectrum. Both also have hogged the top of the “best undergraduate teaching” rankings for years now. St Olaf is more “wholesome” than quirky (for lack of a better word… smart and balanced kind of overachievers).
St Olaf will require “interest”, ie., inquiring to admissions about the majors and the music opportunities, filling out the “request info” form, clicking on every email they send.
Williams would be worth applying ED since it’s the best combination of music and other majors. Yale has lots of excellent musicians, just join the FB page for admitted students and ask “could we form a trio to play xxxx before Thanksgiving” and you’ll have students ready to join and rehearse with you.
that’s right, not really looking at expanding the list, but maybe exchanging some schools for others. Vassar was on the list at some point, if the music is better than at Carlton, maybe he will consider Vassar instead. Should be about equal in term so acceptance rate, I would assume.
He is not looking at adding more safety schools. We have got Whitman, WA and Lawrence, WI. He is looking at more stretch schools. 3.97 GPA and 33ACT and strong extracurriculars, including oboe, tennis and amateur radio.
I would recommend St Olaf over Whitman for your child’s interests if you need to cut the list.
Williams would definitely be the best “stretch” school for him.
Carleton is a reach even with these stats due to selectivity, Vassar is a match for your child.
@KE7WUD, My son had several friends at Williams who were serious musicians even though they majored in other disciplines and ultimately pursued other career directions. They participated frequently in campus and regional ensembles. Williams doesn’t do minors, but double (or even triple) majoring is not uncommon.
You might want to search posts by @FoxboroPiper for more information on the Berkshire Symphony and other performance opportunities.
Vasser is an easier get than Carleton for guys, though the 75% ACT is the same – your ds’s 33.
I don’t know anything about Carleton’s music dept so I looked around. There is a music major and a minor. I thought the alumni profiles were interesting. Here’s more info: http://apps.carleton.edu/curricular/musc/majors/
I would agree in crossing off Whitman and adding St. Olaf. Carleton and St. Olaf are much, much easier to get to. There is a bus that runs from the airport in MSP to both campus centers so a kid can be independent. If you visit, just do a comprehensive visit of both and your son will get a good idea of what he prefers and have a nice benchmark to compare other acceptances and offers. StO has solid merit aid and awards music scholarships to non-majors. Carleton is primarily need based if not exclusively need based if that makes a difference.
When ds1 and I visited Carleton that last week in April senior year, we did the trip without renting a car – we took the EcoTrans shuttle on the way there and the Northfield Lines bus on the way back. I booked a hotel close to the school and walked every where. It was a wonderful way to see a beautiful little town. However, if I wanted to see both schools, I definitely would rent a car as they are a few miles apart and you don’t want to spend the whole time walking everywhere. But, yeah, it’s a piece of cake to get to and from the airport for kids, plus the shuttle makes trips to the Mall of America if mega-shopping is needed, and kids can take it to the Mall to hop the shuttle for Twins games, etc.
I first brought up St. Olaf because if you are going to see one school why not see both? St. Olaf because of its music program and would be more of a match for your ds (more than 50% male acceptance rate in most recent CDS and with a 75% ACT of 32), and Carleton a reach for everyone, so a match and a reach in the same charming town of less than 20K. There is one Carleton general merit-based award of $2K for all NMSF, Natl Hispanic and Natl Achievement scholars. I did notice that there is a scholarship for music majors that I hadn’t previously known about.
This will be our seventh year total of attending Vassar’s orchestra concerts. S1and now S2 play(ed) with the Vassar orchestra all four years they attend(ed ) Vassar. Eduardo Navega is awesome as conductor and the concerts are at an extremely high level. S1 was accepted at a conservatory but chose Vassar. He knew within 5 minutes of listening to a Vassar orchestra rehearsal that Vassar was for him. Every concert has a " goosebump" moment and Eduardo brings out the best in the music. Concerts are so fun… students,faculty, parents,relatives, community people and the college president attend every concert to support the orchestra and hear really great music. As a conservatory grad myself, i am thrilled that both of our sons had the opportunity to attend Vassar. I hope you can attend a rehearsal or concert and listen in!
According to this https://www.petersons.com/college-search/vassar-college-000_10004077.aspx Vassar’s female acceptance rate was 18% and the male acceptance rate was 33%. It was the only LAC my son applied to - he liked the fact that it was not in the middle of the country like so many LACs and that it was a little bigger than most as well.
It looks like there are quite a few youtube videos of orchestras at various places, including Oberlin (which seems to have a non-conservatory orchestra), F&M, and Vassar. I’m not sure how much you can tell from the videos, but maybe its like Yogi said: “You can observe a lot just by watching.” Or listening.