<p>Didn’t mean to offend you, midatlmon, web - I said what influences an officer, if you’d like to speculate, take a look at the decision threads or talk to students with it in mind. </p>
<p>To further divide it (so you don’t think I’m trying to throw away SSR) - 30% more teacher writing, 30% SSR and scores of varying degree, 30% applicant writing.</p>
<p>In light of not provoking others, I’m not going to directly respond to provoked and upset people on the thread. What I said about Yale is a joke. Good luck,…</p>
<p>edit: To be clear, this is my opinion (I said that before) and this is about what influences an officers mind… for example, during full committee, everyone will read the short answer most likely, but not the essays - they’ll go on the officers thoughts and points. So I’m suggesting the short answer is a little more influential in their minds than the essays.</p>
<p>Let me clarify. You’re not offending or provoking me. What you’re doing is offering misinformation to prospective students, and that’s not helpful. You routinely post as if you have some sort of inside knowledge into Harvard admissions, when you don’t. (Please correct me if I’m wrong and you’re an admissions officer. As far as I know, you’re a high school student.) </p>
<p>The quote is a good example: Unless you are an admissions officer, you simply don’t know, cannot know that kind of detail about what goes on around the admissions table. What you’ve said is pure speculation, yet you couch it in the language of fact.</p>
<p>Knitswim … I understand your frustration. But understand how frustrating it is to have everything maxed out, best scores, best grades, dual enrolled last two years, many awards and volunteer hours, be a poor student yourself whose father passed away and so you have had to rise up from nothing, and then to be told by a scholarship committee that had you been anything but a white person, you would have been in and gotten a full ride. </p>
<p>Considering anything at all except race is fine, but once you make a selection for a less qualified person based in the end on race, that makes you a racist. And being discriminated against because of race is racist, period. It’s wrong. And there is nothing wrong with me or anyone else pointing out just how wrong racism in any form is. </p>
<p>I also think it is racist against minorities. If everything but race was considered … socioeconomic group, triumph over hardship, grades, achievements, scores, etc etc … then everyone who got in would be respected, whatever color they were. But as it stands now, even those minorities who got in on their own merits will forever wonder and be wondered about, as far as whether or not they were an affirmative action admit. I hate that for you and for the entire society. Race should be the only thing never considered.</p>
<p>HSM I’m sorry I shared, I wish I did not get into this at all (can’t edit CC posts…)</p>
<p>edit: wrj - you’re wrong about every point you posted, from calling me misleading people to announcing yourself as correct in a condescending tone. Calling me out on a random sentence seems to sadly show your self pride to self knowledge is showing to be higher than 1 (not something valued by officers ironically). I spend time occasionally helping others in the places I was - if you don’t appreciate it then don’t respond. Listening to comments like these makes me not want to participate at all…</p>
<p>More important, you being a Yale parent (judging from your previous posts), and not Harvard, I think you were in fact VERY provoked with my second post, and I sincerely apologize for that. It was a joke, despite the differences in admissions. Calling me a liar, even if you are at least a somewhat angry parent, is not called for regardless, since I specifically said three posts that it’s my opinion. Hope this helps clarify. It would probably be more appropriate to PM then us accidentally going off track the thread again.</p>
<p>What everyone here criticizing Gordon fails to realize is that CC is not a definitive source for college information. Gordon isn’t claiming accuracy; he’s doing his best to share his ideas and help out prospective students who, understandably, face fears and confusion when going through this stressful process.</p>
<p>None of us truly knows about the admissions process, but would it hurt to take an educated guess? This is a public forum where people can post their thoughts, and Gordon’s actions are perfectly acceptable given this context-He is making a genuine effort to help others and should not face the hostile criticism that some have thrown in his direction.</p>
<p>I myself have asked various officers about the process and I’m reasonably knowledge about the inside workings of the process, given that I’ve had friends’ parents and my relatives who’ve worked on the adcoms. Gordon’s points often fall in line with what they have mentioned. Is he absolutely correct all the time? No. But is he making a concerted effort to help others? Absolutely.</p>
<p>I rest my case. Gordon, feel free to PM me if you have anything else to say.</p>
<p>It would seem to me that the best way to help others would be to provide accurate information, rather than come up with artificial percentages based on who knows what (and I am not offended by anything Gordon has said by the way). Many of the prospective students on CC are very nervous and worried and are looking for certainties (which really don’t exist in the college process). While one student might be thrilled that Gordon thinks that recommendations count for 30%, another student, in a large school with uncaring counselors, might be devastated by such a statement. </p>
<p>Rather than make up facts and present them as “very accurate” opinions, I think that applicants should be told that schools such as Harvard are trying to form the best class they can, fill institutional needs which include strong athletes, musicians and legacies and make sure that they try and recruit a diverse population of interesting, intelligent and motivated students. If you are not accepted, it does not mean that you a strong applicant, it just means that in a given year, you did not best fill an institutional priority.</p>
<p>And rather than assign numerical values, students who want to go to Harvard or other top schools, should do the best they can in school, follow through on their outside commitments, try and establish connections with counselors and teachers and write honestly and from the heart.</p>
<p>I would agree with several others that when ANYONE posts with an attitude of certainty, rather than stating that it is an opinion, it can create a great deal of anxiety. </p>
<p>Gordon, you have been asked on several occasions to identify HOW you have obtained so much inside info about Harvard, but you have not provided any clarity to this. Until you offer how you claim to know so much about Harvard’s admissions process, I think that those who read your posts should discount what you say as just opinion.</p>
<p>@powerfuldog,
I would really appreciate any 100%-accurate information you can give us about the admissions process. I hope you knew that announcing that you know people that have worked on adcoms and have a reasonably good understanding of their “inner workings” would certainly trigger this question.</p>
<p>Concerning Gordon: Harvard had no short answer on its application this year. I don’t understand why the college essay - one of the things often cited as being important - wouldn’t take precedence over a comparatively “silly” short answer.</p>
<p>We should live in a meritocracy. Affirmative Action shouldn’t exist. Admissions should be race blind. The best students should be admitted regardless of background. Everything should be based off of academic merit and extracurricular success.</p>
<p>I would mind.
I want to learn from people with a wide range of experiences, nationalities, and yes, even races. Imagine a student that lives in a homogeneous society who would be so much interested in meeting new people different from him or her.</p>
<p>I honestly don’t understand how some people assume that they are more qualified than another person for admission at a school that practices holistic admissions. GPA and SAT scores do not completely describe the applicant and reading some stats on CC do not either. Harvard (and any other holistic college) has the right to evaluate and admit students on whatever qualities they feel like. If one is so disgusted with academic credentials not being the sole factor in college admission, why would one pay an application fee and support an institution like Harvard? Harvard appears to know what they are doing and I trust them to make decisions that are good for the Class of 2016.</p>
<p>^ holistic admissions are still based upon largely objective stats; GPA, test scores, class rank, and extracurricular awards constitute most of the evaluation. Even supplemental recommendations are rated on a numerical scale at most institutions.</p>
<p>Yes I understand that, but unless they put out their specific point system and how many points each area is worth, I think it is audacious to think you are better than another candidate in Harvard’s eyes. Race may be worth 100 points and everything else could be worth 5. Maybe geographic location is worth 50 and everything else is 10. While I’m sure they have to quantify much to compare candidates, but without the scale or “grading outline”, I think it is hard to actually discern what makes one candidate better than the other.</p>
<p>Race and circumstances are also a part of holistic admissions.</p>
<p>Schools are essentially competing over knitswim because there are not a lot of people with her excellent credentials who are URMs. When you consider Harvard admitting 200 african americans, where are they going to find people with comparable credentials (frankly I am a bit surprised she applied to Chicago and not Harvard SCEA)? They are trying to lock her in by sending likelies so she is aware that they are interested in her early enough.</p>
<p>texaspg : I decided not to apply to Harvard SCEA in order to apply to MIT EA! I also applied EA to Chicago because I could. I had a hard time deciding whether to apply early to MIT or Harvard, but in the end, I figured that I wanted to start off the admissions process on a positive note and applying to two schools early would give me a better chance at it. Plus, I was (am?) very attached to MIT as I had a wonderful experience while there over the summer. I agonized for weeks after submitting because I thought I made a mistake in not applying early to Harvard! </p>
<p>haha oh you probably didn’t really wanna hear the story…but there you go, sorry I love storytelling :P</p>
I also applied EA to Chicago because I could. I had a hard time deciding whether to apply early to MIT or Harvard, but in the end, I figured that I wanted to start off the admissions process on a positive note and applying to two schools early would give me a better chance at it. Plus, I was (am?) very attached to MIT as I had a wonderful experience while there over the summer. I agonized for weeks after submitting because I thought I made a mistake in not applying early to Harvard! </p>