<p>I don’t think this is entirely fair. While I would not want to discount any possibility of institutional racism for some of these numbers, you have to realize that these LACs mostly draw from the region. And here in the South, it’s really not seen to be more prestigious to go to one of these LACs over, say Ole Miss, Alabama or Georgia. There’s a lot of tradition at these state schools, even as far as concern over legacy admits to fraternities and sororities. And football is king down here, so many chose these schools based on their football team allegiance. The perception here is that to make the important connections you go to the state school, not the LAC.</p>
<p>I have friends whose advised their children to attend Southern state school over Southern LAC because ‘who ever heard of Southern LAC’ but ‘everyone has heard of Southern state school’.</p>
<p>I can’t see someone in the Northeast, for example, saying that UMass Amherst would be as prestigious as Amherst college, or that it would be better for networking. </p>
<p>Another difference is the prevalence of HBCUs here, and some good HBLACs–Morehouse, Spelman, both of which are right in Atlanta. </p>
<p>Finally, I would also think that the Hope Scholarship program in Georgia, which covers tuition, fees and books for Georgia students who have a B average in high school, is also a factor in the difficulty of attracting students to some of these LACs.</p>
<p>id: School works hard to lack diversity? Not at all–especially if it is an historically white college associated with a religious group that tends to be nearly all white located in an area where the population is mostly white. (Franklin County, TN–92.3% white–Sewanee is more diverse than the surrounding area).</p>
<p>As someone pointed out in this thread, there are many black students, especially athletes, who would be welcome at Sewanee–but they don’t want to go to such a “white” school. It works both ways. You can’t blame students for wanting to go where they they fit in and feel comfortable.</p>
<p>Less diverse schools? Plenty of them–U. of North Dakota? close to 1% black. BYU? 0.4% black. . .</p>
<p>“Sewanee is the only university in the nation that is owned and governed by dioceses of the Episcopal Church:” from the Sewanee website. And home to an Anglican School of Theology. </p>
<p>I am a cradle born Episcopalian and it is not a terribly diverse Church. I’ve lived in areas where my parish has had a good number of parishioners from Africa (Nigeria specifically,) but not here in TN. And the area around Sewanee is very rural (gorgeous!) with very little racial diversity. </p>
<p>Sewanee also has some quirky traditions that some students automatically recoil from including : Students have to dress for classes: “students elect to participate in the Class Dress tradition in order to show respect for their professors and the education they are receiving” AND “students have been sporting the Academic Gown around campus to signify their membership in the Order of the Gownsmen” (very Hogwarts ;)</p>
<p>skrlvr makes a great point about how LACs are looked at in the Southeast. It’s not the same mindset as in the Northeast.</p>
<p>I have no idea why people continue to compare a metric such as yield or attempt to draw conclusions from comparing yields. Yield analyses are only relevant to the enrollment managers and can only cover a very narrow band of VERY similar schools.</p>
<p>For instance, what is there to learn from comparing the yield of BYU to Harvard’s or Yale’s? Or from comparing the very high yield of Nebraska to the lowly rate of Tulane?</p>
Let’s also not forget that Sewanee is located in a state that’s 82% white. Coming to think of it, isn’t the US 75% white as a whole? It seems statistically impossible for every single college and university to be racially diverse by CC standards.</p>
<p>Rhodes sounds like a great school. Good enough that when we went to Memphis on vacation we drove by. That was enough. Memphis is a dying city and Rhodes is in a bad section of Memphis.</p>
<p>The reality is that not too many people (of whatever color) apply to Sewanee, and of those who are accepted, not too many want to attend. With the baby bump in college admissions coming to an end, it will become more and more difficult for schools such as Sewanee to maintain admissions standards, and ensure enough money coming in to help pay for their costs. It’s not their fault - it’s just the way it is. (And it will happen elsewhere as well.)</p>
<p>So the Vice Chancellor thinks that, given the situation, he can attract more high-paying families by lowering costs (if only just a little). I think it is highly unlikely (and I think parents would prefer the merit scholarship), but in 2-3 years we’ll see. </p>
<p>As to diversity, they likely lack the resources to get them to reach a critical mass, without lots of alumni support. McCardell failed to do that at Middlebury (with much more in the way of resources); so it is asking too much to expect him to do that at Sewanee.</p>
<p>b) wealthy intelligent white people are not all inherently evil</p>
<p>c) charging rich people more just because they can pay is stupid. Why not just charge a flat 10% of household income (hey, assets too) in tuition for any college?</p>
<p>May be true: but it is interesting that I almost never hear that argument except from wealthy white people (like myself). (As to intelligence, I wouldn’t know.)</p>
<p>Rhodes is in a city. That can make a big difference in terms of attracting diversity. When you are out in the sticks, it is much more difficult. I know dozens of kids standing in line to pay for programs at Fordham U who won’t bother to apply to the same program up in Maine. We are talking about NYC kids that are definitely ethnic minorities and what many of the outlying LACs would love to have. They just won’t apply. There is also the issue of room and board costs of such programs. </p>
<p>So when it comes time to apply to the colleges, schools in the city have the name recognition among the kids in the area that often ensure those schools of being on the consideration list. I’ve seen and am seeing this happen again and again.</p>
<p>If I remember the whole discussion about Sewanee, it seemed that it was losing a lot of students to state schools around the South. It was unclear to me if it was losing in-state students to their respective in-state flagship or out-of-state students. But there was a claim that reducing the tuition would make tuition at Sewanee comparable to out-of-state tuition at a state flagship. Sewanee may be thinking that it’s losing students to out-of-state flagships because of price. That may be true, but I tend to think it has to do more with students here preferring the big state U experience, and are applying to out-of-state flagships to get that experience while at the same time feeling like they are going ‘away’ for college.</p>
<p>One thing this whole thread made me realize is how the yields at some of these regional LACs can be extremely low–some of them have yields under 20%. Even some of the most respected national LACs have yields in the low 30s. </p>
<p>One thing that is happening with state schools is that they are coming to rely more and more on tuition dollars as state support dries up. So they are also thinking about raising the numbers of students they enroll. That will put more pressure on these LACs to get students. It will be interesting to see how this all plays out, especially since the state schools will enroll more students but I doubt will hire more faculty, etc. If it becomes increasingly difficult to graduate in 4 years at some of these places, so that you’re paying more in tuition, a small LAC may become more attractive. If the LAC can guarantee graduation in 4 years, it may actually be more affordable overall. But that’s a lot of ‘ifs’.</p>
<p>It is my opinion that schools like Sewanee who are at high risk with the climb in college costs. Parents may be willing to pay for HPY and like even if it costs them their retirement and their house. But, not so for the Sewanees. And the costs are often comparable. </p>
<p>I think admissions is going to be much more need aware and, even deeper discounts are going to be needed. In the last several years, families here who would have paid whatever it took for their kids to go the college of their choices, have had to lay down financial guidelines. A number of them ended up in state schools, schools that offered merit money but were not the top choices, and commuting. This was driven purely by financials. I don’t know if 10% is even going to be enough. I think a nice 20-25% is more like it.</p>
<p>It is so interesting that here on CC there is a constant refrain from a choir that sings that LAC’s are preferable to large research U’s (the evil of TA’s, the horror of an intro psych course with 350 students, much better opportunities for undergrads to engage in cutting edge scientific research, no professor who knows you well enough to write you a grad school recommendation, takes 6 years to graduate since you can’t fit in your pre-req’s at a large U- need I continue?) and yet folks tend to vote with their feet when it comes to application time. I guess these southerners aren’t discerning enough to realize that the small LAC is a superior educational experience.</p>
<p>There are several ways to draw conclusions from the number of applications at different schools. </p>
<p>One is to look at the absolute numbers. One is the ratio of admitted students to applications. Another is ratio of open slots versus total applications. </p>
<p>Obviously, the first one means very little to nothing.</p>
<p>Isn’t that what the FAFSA and the IM attempt to do? Actually, the system is so good that they limit the cost for the wealthy to the COA. ;)</p>
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<p>I am afraid that this will not happen. The reason why schools have been able to raise the COA well beyond all measures of inflation is that the demand for their services greatly surpassed the supply. Looking at the admission numbers for many of the most expensive schools, it is easy to see how the admissions rate are still creeping up. Of course, the fact that close to 300,000 applications (not unique applicants) were sent to the Ivy League plus Stanford/MIT this year as opposed to 200,000 just five years ago does not trickle all the way down to the LACs that are NOT on the first page of the USNews. </p>
<p>On the other hand, the cost of higher education are hardly a problem for smaller schools. The impact on public schools might be even more profound as there are no endowment safety nets and … very little meaningful alumni support. </p>
<p>The reality is that there will always be people who will weigh the value to the net cost and decide that the sacrifices for a private education are not that much greater. And, before drastic changes occur, the economy gets into another cycle!</p>
<p>I wouldn’t single out just the South here. I think small LACs across the country, especially the more regional ones, have a hard time attracting students. </p>
<p>There is a perception that the college/university you attend allows you to have the right ‘network’ in terms of post-graduation opportunities. In the South, it’s the big state schools that have that reputation of having the best network. I’m sure there are many at Amherst and Williams who go there because of the alumni network, etc. The power brokers here are graduates of Alabama, Ole Miss, Georgia, Auburn, etc., not Sewanee, Millsaps, Birmingham Southern, etc. </p>
<p>There are some majors that LACs don’t do well or don’t really offer–nursing, engineering, business, etc. And even for the more traditional majors, small LACs can’t really offer the range of upper level courses that a big research university can–especially in the sciences. The superior educational experience is in the eyes of the beholder. </p>
<p>In terms of students who are likely to also be interested in LACs, big state Us lure students in that way with honors programs–giving these students priority with respect to housing and even priority enrollment, giving the lower level honors classes/sections that are more likely to be taught by a professor than a TA, offering interesting and interdisciplinary upper level seminars just for honors students, etc. So in some ways, for certain students you avoid some of the problems you mentioned–like not getting into the right classes, so not graduating on time.</p>
<p>So true! A degree from UGA here trumps all else 95% of the time. I get the blank stare look when asked where my D goes to school and I say Amherst College. If they ask more and I tell them it’s a small LAC in MA, I have been asked if it was “like a community college.” She is planning on professional school so the GA connection is not that imperative, but if it was, she would be at a huge disadvantage in comparison to those from the big southern state schools.</p>