<p>Thanks for the great responses. I will show him all of them but whether or not it will help is yet to be seen. What's hard for me to grasp is for a kid that works as a teller at a bank and loves his AP Econ class he just doesn't seem to fully grasp the whole thing. Part of it is most of his friends parent's are paying a lot of their costs so he really can't talk with them about it and also no of them are sitting home on the weekends writing essays for scholarships. Also I hear is look I have gotten great grades in high school I don't drink like most of the other kids and basically now it's senior year and I'm chilling out .I thought after he got his first acceptance (Wisconsin) he would be pumped, which he was but most of the excitement left in a hurry.</p>
<p>Bruce, I honestly don't think kids <em>get it</em> until they are living on their own. They just don't think of the sort of things that Aries listed in her post. They have no clue about the cost of groceries. They don't think about things like car maintenance costs or insurance, or copayments required to see a doctor when you are an HMO, or phone bills, or all the little unexpected expenses that come up along the way. </p>
<p>Fortunately my kids were very much aware of my financial limitations as a single parent. Both had the attitude during their senior years that they would apply to a bunch of colleges, get the financial aid awards, and leave it to me to tell them which colleges I could afford. It makes me feel uneasy that if my daughter gets into her top choice colleges but the financial aid is inadequate, I'll have to be the bad guy and say no.... it would be easier for me if I could get her to look at a spreadsheet and make the right choice on her own. But come April I know we will have firm numbers ... and until then, there's not much point in worrying about things.</p>
<p>Iguess I should just sit back and fill out all the necessary aid paperwork and see what happens. I am tired of the arguing and how everyone is beginning to hate me for harping about it all the time to no avail. I just wish my wife would understand a little more and be more supportive of my view instead of babying him all the time.</p>
<p>Bruce-</p>
<p>I've looked back over some of your othere posts and frankly you son is in a dreamland. OOS publics are likely to offer a fraction of what is going to be needed. Don't expect to see great FA offers and don't expect to see them until March for those schools. This doesn't mean they may not surprise you, but I've dealt with these schools and know what you can expect.</p>
<p>It's time to play some defense. I would recommend that your son make some last minute apps to 2 or 3 of the following: Lake Forest, Augustana, Beloit, Truman State (an exception), Quincy, Illinois College, and a local CC. With your EFC and your son's numbers, the privates in this list will likely come up far less expensive than the three publics your son applied to.</p>
<p>check out eastern illinois university and their presidential scholars program. if you are looking for an in-state school, this program can be pretty darn rewarding. it's based on ACT and high school gpa.</p>
<p>Yes, fill out all the paperwork for F.A., and apply to the schools listed in post #24, but you really need to tell your son how much money you are willing to contribute to his schooling. I second the idea of looking at the local community college. He could take 2 years there, save some money, and transfer to University of Illinois. Please don't burden yourself with loans!</p>
<p>So what you are telling me is Wis. and Indiana will not give any aid. Indiana has already promised $7,000 a year for his test scores and he hasn't filled out the scholarship forms to send back to Kelley business school which he was accepted to.How are other kids from low to middle class income families able to send their kids to these schools ,or are there no kids of this caliber going to these schools.Or should I change his race on his profile so he can get some aid that way.Why should a kid be denied the education he desires ( nothing against the fine schools suggested here) and has earned thru hard work in high school because his parents can't afford it.</p>
<p>
Don't be hating. Bitter is not going to help. Time for him to roll up his sleeves and get to work "fixing" this. You have received good advice. If he doesn't take it to heart when you show it to him, well......maybe he's not ready for college. </p>
<p>Like calmom, at my house money has been on the front row throughout the process. Also like calmom, if D gets into a reach need-only that she thinks is #1 and I can't afford it I'll have to be the bad guy. But I'll tell you this, if my kid was to tell me that she was too busy to fill out a scholarship app I'd feel a little less "bad" if we came up short of cash ;). I understand that there are many stressors working on the OP in this process, some of which seem unfair and insurmountable. We all have a choice to complain, stay in the same place, and watch the train hit us or work to get the Hell out of the way. As always , just my opinion.</p>
<p>I didn't say he would get no aid. My experience has been that you can expect the costs to be lower pursuing the schools I listed compared to the OOS schools he applied to.</p>
<p>I know I should not of brought up the race issue, but it does bother me when I go to the University Of Wisconsin list of scholarships and if you aren't from in-state or a minority you are pretty much out of luck for any in school scholarships if you are a low to low middle class white kid.Yes I agree I am a little bitter but we all want better for our kids than what we had and I don't want my kids to do manual labor their whole life like I did, and just because my wife and I didn't go to college we have raised our kids to be good students (all 3 senior honor roll last semester) but I feel colleges should see first in college from family and give you some breaks.Yes I agree my son is slacking in some areas, bit I do know from watching him study and do homework the last 4 years he does deserve a first class education, and if is a state school in another state and he gets accepted there and not in his own home state why should he have to go to a lower level school just because his parents can't help him.I also feel he was at a disadvantage and it has probably got him down a little bit is the fact we couldn't afford for him to take ACT help classes like most of his schoolmates because my wife was going thru chemo at the time and my insurance wasn't picking up everything so money was unusally tight last spring.I'm sure taking thes help classes would have put his scores into an acceptable level for Illinois and I wouldn't be here complaining to you wonderful people. I guess I should be happy my wife and my other son, who was also in the hospital with Crohn's at various points last are doing well.So let the chips fall where they may as I am sure I will get thru this crisis some way or another. Thanks again for all your postings they have helped me and I hope my son well heed your advice as well.</p>
<p>My daughter as I have stated is also first generation college- our income is also low middle and we live in a high expense area.</p>
<p>My D school meets 100% of EFC- finaid package is grants of over $20,000, $1,000 of Perkins loan, and subsidized Stafford loan
Our daughter earns $4,000 every summer to contribute toward EFC.
Her workstudy job pays for her books- personal expenses and entertainment.</p>
<p>I understand about money being tight- our younger daughter has even more severe learning disabilties and we have had to pay for a tutor for her just to help her get by.
However I want to point out that when there is need that isn't evident on FAFSA/PROFILE, schools will reconsider aid package when provided the supporting details. We found our daughters school to stick pretty close to EFC, but they did adjust aid package when the financial situation changed after
9/11 and H was laid off.</p>
<p>Not every family has been able to put away tuition and expenses for 4 years by the time their kids attend college, but there are ways for students to attend college, even students whose parents who refuse to contribute at all</p>
<p>BTW one of my favorite local musicians has Crohns disease ( in fact I am eagerly awaiting a benefit in March) this might be helpful to your son</p>
<p>Mike McCready</p>
<p>Brucesprings: you need to realize that tax dollars help support your state universities, and that every state resident receives a subsidized education -subsidized by the state taxpayers. Non-illinois residents have to pay out-of-state tuition to go to Illinois schools. Some state universities will give good scholarship aid, but only to high-flying students or top athletes. If your son can't even get admitted to your top state U, it is highly unlikely that he will get much aid at an OOS public school. Instead of being upset about this, please try to take advantage of the state schools that are available to you in Illinois. Try for local scholarships, apply for merit aid at the "lower-tier" state and private schools. Your son can get a great education at many schools, including ones that are not ranked as highly. Many of the professors at these "Lower ranked" schools received their educations at terrific schools and are just as qualified as professors at highly ranked schools. Really! I have a professor friend who is great and well-educated -and, due to the job market, is employed at a podunck low-tier New Jersey school that you've probably never heard of... and she is giving those students a GREAT education. Focus on your own state. JMHO!</p>
<p>don't miss out on this opportunity at eastern illinois university. i am repeating myself, i know, but please check out this link. </p>
<p><a href="http://www.eiu.edu/%7Ehonprog/schapp2.htm%5B/url%5D">http://www.eiu.edu/~honprog/schapp2.htm</a></p>
<p>brucesprings -- you really don't have to harp on things. Just let your son know the bottom line financially.</p>
<p>The way to stop "babying" a kid is to let go and allow the kid to make his own mistakes. Parental nagging is a form of babying -- so while you may perceive your wife as being over-protective, your own efforts to make your son do the things you feel are in his best interest may be part of the problem in terms of his initiative and motivation. You are conveying the message that getting the finances for him to attend his top choice college is very important to you -- so maybe that's one reason he figures you'll come through in the end. </p>
<p>It may be that if the money isn't there in the spring, your son is going to have to change course and make some different choices. Maybe he will delay entry into college for a year while he works - or maybe he will end up at a somewhat less selective college that is more willing to provide merit aid. Maybe when he gets the message that his dad isn't going to rush to the rescue at the last minute, he will focus on figuring out how to raise the needed finances on his own. Every spring on this board there is always some resourceful kid who is dead set on filling a financial aid gap, who posts about what he or she is doing -- one thing I've observed is that most have been able to rustle up a few thousand in scholarship money in April & May, so the money certainly isn't all gone by then.</p>
<p>I've become more philosophical about the whole thing because I've observed how much emotional growth took place with my son when he dropped out of college to work for a few years. I know he will finish his education at a college that would have been beneath his consideration when he graduated from high school -- and he will finish it mostly on his own dime -- but I also can see the difference that a few years makes in terms of maturity level. So I'm a little frustrated by the "mom-will-pay" attitude that my younger daughter still seems to have, but I am also more understanding. I know that there is a world of difference between age 17 and 22 (the ages of my 2 kids), and a lot of what frustrates me about my daughter's attitude will simply be outgrown. Part of that growth process may involve some set backs and disappointments. But that's life...</p>
<p>Bruce;</p>
<p>suggest you revisit Carolyn's earlier post (another thread) with some excellent suggestions for schools that provide finaid. While your son's scores are good, they are not likely high enough to be competitive for an academic scholarship at Madison (several require a 3.8 gpa, others require SAT scores 1400+). Even so, the dollar amount of those scholarships is not high -- $500,$1000,$2000 per year.</p>
<p>Bruce-</p>
<p>You have fallen victim to the "good-name" myth. This is one of the most expensive and heart-breaking myths of the process. Your son can get a great education at hundreds of colleges across the midwest.</p>
<p>Bruce - As I have said in earlier posts, your child can get an excellent education from a number of institutions, but to get solid financial aid, he must place himself higher up in the class and pound the pavement for other forms of aid.</p>
<p>It is not your job to carry him. Yes, he may be disappointed that things aren't going his way, but that's life. The old saw...when the goin' gets tough, the tough get goin'. He needs to learn the lesson that when the goin' gets tough, he must redouble his efforts and not rely on you to pull the rabbit out of the hat.</p>
<p>And, for your part, you must train yourself not to feel guilty when you can't. It's just flat-out not your fault. You have done a wonderful job to bring your family to this point.</p>
<p>And, please for your sake and your family's, don't play the blame game -- altho heaven knows it is tempting to blame the fates. It just sets a terribly bad example for your kids...and lets them blame the outside world for a lot of things they themselves can control. And, when kids blame the outside world for things they themselves can control, they go through life feeling like helpless victims. I know you don't want them, or yourself, to feel like that.</p>
<p>I'm 57 and college educated. My parents were poor and blue collar, first generation Americans. Mom graduated from high school; dad got through 6th grade. He could read, but not write. Both were smart, but unable to go further because of family commitments. My parents didn't have much money to help me. I did all the work myself. I didn't understand money at all, but I didn't expect them to do a thing. I got a full time babysitting job at 15; worked every available minute from 16 on, graduated 4/352 (valedictorian's dad was Harvard grad, salutatorian's dad was Yale professor, #3 was child of two college-educated parents...so I too know smooze...and I don't let it bother me much...I just out work everyone), top GPA, SATs, and awards. I took nothing from them. I was determined to make it on my own. I got a full scholarship, and still worked to boot. The point I'm trying to make is that if your child believes he deserves a top education, then it is up to him to go and make it happen. And, it is up to him to find a significant way to pay for it. He must show the maturity to help you, his mother, and his siblings and defray the costs.</p>
<p>I believe IMHO that however much you love your son that you must not put yourself into financial jeopardy for his future and you must not co-sign his loans. If, down the road, you find yourself in a strong financial position, you can always help him pay off his loans, but you should strongly reconsider giving him the ability to easily walk away from his responsibilities and not be able to shoulder your own.</p>
<p>The school your son attends is less important than the hard work he puts in to get good grades, get a good education, get himself noticed, and direct himself toward a good career. It's the resiliency and the backbone he develops through working through hardship that will make him a great man. Helping him too much at this stage will harm his personal growth. He needs to learn that his future is in his hands.</p>
<p>Brucesprings
University of Champain Urbana is very competitive when it comes to business school and driven by numbers. I do not know how your son made his decisions to apply to those OOS schools but IL has much more to offer if you care to look.
Two colleges that come to my mind are North Central College in Naperville and Lake Forest at Lake Forest. I visited them both several times and am very pleased with my observations.
NCC has very strong business department with absolutely amazing internships and research opportunities due to location in the industrial area, including programs with Argonne and Fermi labs. It is private college which does their own EFC calculation based on GPA, ACT/SAT scores and your income. Based from what you told about your son stats he will be candidate for very substantial merit scholarship. NCC is rolling admission so your son still can apply. And depending on where in IL you live he can even commute which will cut your COA. Faculty there is very caring and able to give tons of attention to their students. I heard from several students that some of their internships turned in very lucrative part time jobs during their junior and senior year.
Same could be said about Lake Forest college. As a matter of fact I was there today on the Science Open House and one of our guides was student majoring in business. This student was full of excitement while talking about her experience in LFC. This college located among lots of start up companies who love to have LFC students for internships and summer jobs. LFC has been named #2 students being happy with their fin aid- they are willing to work with your circumstances.
If you live more west IL- Knox college and Augustana college might be excellent choices. I believe their priority application date is Feb 1. Knox is my personal favorite. If I had to choose one word describing this college I would say - dignity.
Freedom to flourish is their motto and feel it every time I visit Knox.
Do not pay attention to sticker price for those colleges. Private colleges
have possibilites to offer very nice discounts to students they want. Your son being a male is also very attractive for them. Since he won't be a number, your particular family situation can be taken into account more easily as well.
In conclusion I have to agree with previous posters- most that matter what your son will make out of his college experience. Many colleges besides state flagship are able to give give him great education.</p>
<p>Some schools will extend their application deadlines if informed of extenuating circumstances such as those experienced by your family.</p>