Location, Location, Location...

College Search & Selection
1

… Is the bane of my college search.

Personally, I’d love a college that’s close to a main city, or even urban. Weather isn’t really a concern: I love to stay inside when it’s cold, and outside when it’s hot. I don’t prefer either. That said, the area needs to be interesting-- whether it is scenic or exciting.
But my home state is ruled out, because NEWSFLASH: Oklahoma swimming stinks. I’m currently in the middle of talking to college coaches… I actually just got a call last week. Of the two colleges that offer swimming in Oklahoma, neither would further my goals.
I need a college that focuses on math and science, or has a strong program in that area. I’m going into Linear Algebra as a senior, and while I’d be fine retaking math classes (if only to make sure that I learn the math that they use in their programs), I don’t want to be stuck doing the same work I did in high school.
I’ve got a 4.0 UW, 4.26 W GPA, and at this moment, it doesn’t seem to be changing. I’m in extremely advanced math, as evinced by my current math class, Differential Equations, and I’m taking AP Chem this year (just got a 5 on the mock… I’m hopeful) and AP Physics C next year. I have a 35 ACT, a 2040 SAT (working on it), and am taking the SAT Math II and Chemistry this Saturday.
I’d like a smaller college, probably 5,000 or less, and it needs to have swimming, like I mentioned above; swimming became a sudden and crucial factor about mid-sophomore year. I’d also like a place where I’m slightly competitive. I don’t need to be the best, and it doesn’t have to be a reach, but I do want academic rigor, which is something I’ve been sorely lacking my high school career.

But why is location the bane of my college search?

Baltimore.

My dad is severely overreacting… and we live in flat, tornado-stricken Oklahoma. I had my search narrowed down to three colleges: Colorado School of Mines, MIT, and Caltech. My dad has already been railing on Caltech; he’s worried about the water supply. Today, I barely mentioned college-- it came up through the Chem mock I took today and a friend of mine who’s having trouble with financial aid from private institutions-- and my mom immediately shot MIT down, citing my dad’s worry about the reason.

If my dad doesn’t calm down, I’m stripped of every college in the East and West coasts. I was already having problems with broadening my college search (with those three colleges being my only will-apply schools), but now, as a junior, I find myself with only one.

Help… Advice… College Recommendations… I don’t know. My dad has taken down both of my dream/reach schools. If I can’t move forward with this, I’m lost.

2

I’d like to add that the avatar is confusing. I’m a white female too, if that changes anything. My mom also cited “going off to college as a woman by yourself” as a concern, and though while I’m a bit absent-minded, I’m responsible and typically a social centipede… that is, not a social butterfly. I’ve never had any discipline issues (past getting on the internet with a concussion… over a year ago. My mom wasn’t happy about that.) with my parents.

3

@ReckoSkirata, The first thing you need to do is get a handle on the financials. Private colleges are expensive (!) but financial aid is available, both in the form of need-based aid (meaning aid is proportionate to how much you can afford) or merit-based scholarships which are granted regardless of your financial situation.

So the first step is to pick a few colleges and ask your parents to run their finances through the colleges’ net price calculators. That will give you your estimated family contribution. If that works, great: you can put together a wide list.

If your EFC is more than your parents are willing or able to spend, then you need to concentrate on colleges that offer merit aid. Many of the most selective colleges on either coast do not offer merit aid, period, so it’s urgent that you understand where you stand financially before you start tossing out names. This applies to both privates and out of state publics.

I wouldn’t want to generalize on the safety of urban campuses: some are safer than others, but all have facilities in place to keep their students out of harm’s way. If you and your parents have a chance to visit and learn about the safety programs that are in place, I’m sure the urban environments will appear less scary. Also, many colleges are in small towns or suburbs of cities which may be a good compromise.

I’d suggest you look at a few small liberal arts colleges, which are generally in the range of 1500 to 2500 students. Two that come to mind for excellent math and sciences and strong varsity swimming programs are Williams and Kenyon. Williams is need-only and Kenyon offers both need-based and merit aid. Both are in scenic rural location – and very safe.

Some other small LACs that might be worth a look for math and science (I have no idea about swimming) are Wesleyan, Carleton, Smith. Once you start looking at the LAC category, you’ll find others, but be sure to clarify the money first.

4

Try to calm down yourself. Keep your posts simple without all the asides so people can get to the heart of the matter

When you say ‘has swimming’ what does that mean. Indoor pools aren’t okay? Are you talking recruited team or club or recreational or what?

While you can hardly count on a cal tech admission, you aren’t going to be needing to water crops or anything. I don’t know why your dad would be worried. Are you bringing your lawn with you?

Why don’t you try to change the family dynamics on this? You still have summer to work on it. Make a proposal to your family that you all make lists of schools you like and list the pros and cons and give each other powerpoint type presentations. But the deal is you first have your must haves, and want to haves and they have to pick schools that have the must haves, the want to haves are optional. Everyone agrees to be open minded and have discussions before there is a yes or no on them. I don’t see what your dad’s worry about MIT was that your mom agreed with. If all of you are so disorganized no wonder this is such a clusterfrack.

Colleges are protected environments, you are not on your own. Tell your mother that people don’t take their parents to college with them. Everyone is off on their own there.

Harvery Mudd and Pomona college in Claremont, not far from Cal Tech are LAC with advanced math, especially Mudd, in a very nice suburban environment.

5

It sounds as if your parents are inventing concerns to mask their real ones: finances and separation. I’m surprised that Rice isn’t very high on your list. Tulane should be, also. I don’t know anything about their swim teams, however. I think that Columbia/Barnard have a swim team, but I don’t know how good they are. There was a huge push to upgrade the program when I was there in the 1970s; Barnard hired the legendary Diana Nyad to coach. Columbia School of Engineering and Applied Sciences (SEAS) sounds perfect for you, if your parents would allow you to travel that far. You can lovingly bring up the fact that NYC’s crime rates are the lowest they have ever been. Despite popular opinion, Columbia’s immediate neighborhood is very, very safe. I felt safer there, during the high-crime '70s and '80s than I did almost anywhere in the world: it’s brightly lit, heavily patrolled, and there are always people out and about at all hours. If your parents still won’t agree to NYC, what about Princeton? It’s a lively town, with easy train access to NYC and Philadelphia, and is very strong in your fields. As for Baltimore, the riots are contained within a limited area, across town from Johns Hopkins. The violence has been over-played in the media, but the root causes and urban problems are very real. I believe that JHU, Goucher, and Loyola are all located in safe, residential areas. That goes for Tulane, as well. What about Vanderbilt and Washington University-St. Louis?

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I have to disagree with woogzmama about bringing up the Baltimore schools right now, if the riots are freaking out your dad. Hopkins is only 2-3 miles from Mondawmin Mall, and Loyola just a bit further. They have a bit of a buffer in Interstate 83, but I don’t think most locals would consider them “across town”. In fact, I think one or both schools may have cancelled classes at least for yesterday. As a former (suburban) Baltimore resident, I always found it different from most metropolitan areas in that I never considered it to have many (any) areas that I felt were very safe. Hopkins in particular borders the most affluent residential section of Baltimore, but it also borders a very high crime area. Loyola similar, but slightly less extreme in both aspects. Goucher is very safely ensconced in the suburbs. Probably not the time to mention any Baltimore schools to parents focusing on security. Tulane is in a generally safer neighborhood, and I’d feel much more comfortable walking around there at night. New Orleans shares that Baltimore phenomenon, though, of the most affluent residential areas bumping right up against the least affluent. That happens in a lot of metropolitan areas, of course, but Baltimore and New Orleans happen to be the two most extreme I’ve encountered.

7

I will stand corrected, rrobb. I don’t know Baltimore that well. Some other urban colleges, such as Penn and Chicago, are in areas that were once pretty sketchy but have gentrified and improved significantly in recent years. That also applies to Northeastern, in Boston. The “Hemenway District” was scary in the '60s and early '70s, and it’s yuppie heaven now.

8

What are your times?

9

JHU was on lockdown and requested all students shelter in place over the past few days.
If dad is worried for safety, you might point out that location isn’t a guarantee. Remind him of the Murrah Bldg in Oklahoma City. MIT has a nice pool but they don’t give athletic scholarships, neither does Princeton. However, their financial aid is very good.

10

This isn’t an answer to your question, but I have to ask:

why in the world are you taking the SAT again if you already have a 35 ACT? You don’t need both, and a 35 ACT is Harvard/Chicago/Caltech/MIT material. There is no reason to keep testing now, other than the subject tests.

11

Things are calmed down a bit. I talked to my dad.

My dad is less worried about Baltimore specifically and, I think, more worried about me going into a liberal-dominated culture: I’m not political, so I don’t mind. The ‘California’ deal is really a matter of rising prices… though my dad is overestimating the problem because we DO have a garden.

Separation is definitely an issue my parents are worried about; CSM is a day’s drive away, but they can’t afford flights halfway across the country when I want to come home for breaks.

Honestly, FA is a hurdle I will jump when I get to it. We’re not affluent, but we’re not lacking money… but my family also has three more kids to send to college after me. My mom’s income depends on how much she works, and my dad’s is less than 100k… I think a bit less than 80k.

Rice hasn’t been on my list because my times are fast enough for DII/DIII schools-- I actually just emailed the Caltech coach back, and I’m in contact with the CSM coach. So swimming is the “recruiting” type of swimming.

Sorry for all the rambling… really. I let my stress get in the way of my logic.

12

Southern Methodist University! Great swim team, academically rigorous, undergraduate enrollment of ~6.3k, located in Dallas. Bulletproof against your dad’s bullshit “dangerous” or “liberal-dominated culture” or “no water” cards.

Emory - slightly larger than SMU and it’s located in Atlanta

Franklin & Marshall

Denison, Bates, Middlebury, Amherst, Washington & Lee, and Williams meet most of your criteria except they’re not urban.

I think you would really like Reed College (in Portland), but I don’t know anything about their swim team and your dad will probably dislike how liberal it is.

13

This is exactly the demographic that gets the most squeezed in financial aid handouts. Run some net price calculators now, before you get too deep into the process. Some of the schools that you’ll want to look at only offer need based aid so you have to know in advance how much you’re eligible for.

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@momrath: we can’t really gauge our FA situation. My mom is self-employed and her income changes with each year.

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^Which is another reason not to be passive about figuring out your financial situation. It doesn’t make sense to apply to a bunch of schools that provide only need-based aid if your mom’s income is high in your application year and you’re turned down for FA you need to attend.

16

Take a look at Trinity in San Antonio. You will likely recieve a large merit award and could swim in Div. III.

Please don’t put off considering finances. You have great credentials, and, if you plan correctly, you can have some terrific options that include scholarships. Run the NPCs on several different types of schools to understand where your family falls as far as paying for college. You may be stunned, in a bad way, by the numbers.

I also think Rice should be on your list. Run Rice’s NPC.

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Agreed, you could be a full ride kid if you are financially smart as well…

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How often is the NPC accurate? Or how close does it get?

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The NPCs are fairly accurate from what I have read. But the results of the EFC will vary from school to school. You can run the NPCs and figure out how much your family will be expected to pay (your EFC). This number can be shockingly high for people who have good jobs but who are not rich. Your parents can tell you what amount they will pay if they can’t afford the EFC amount. Understand that they truly may not be able to afford the EFC. Your job is to find schools where you can earn a scholarship if it looks like you will have a gap in funding your education.

If your EFC is reasonable, then you can apply to meet full need schools because you won’t need a merit scholarship.

Did you do well on your PSAT and could possibly be a NMSF?

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I live in Oklahoma and got a 214… So yeah, I’ll be a semifinalist, and maybe a finalist. Scholarships there. I honestly haven’t thought much of FA because I don’t know how to fill out most of these form things because I don’t concretely know my parents’ incomes. I’ve also heard that sticker price is not always the price… so I don’t typically look at financial stuff. My friend just fell into the same problem, though, so I’ll be looking into it more.