London School of Economics

College Search & Selection
21

<p>Poor old JKH/uWarwick really seethes with hatred for LSE...now he's saying that it doesn't matter that LSE's the top place in its field because it 'only specialises in the social sciences' - he probably confuses social science with social work and domestic science...poor thing..</p>

<p>For the record the social sciences are a broad rather than narrow subject area, and they embrace such disciplines as statistics, politics, international relations, law, history, social geography, demography, economics, philosophy, anthropology, social policy, operational research, criminology, bioethics, economics, sociology, international relations, psychology, business studies etc etc. LSE produces graduates and influential researchers in every one of these fields, and it did so long before the social sciences became so fashionable and popular in other UK universities: come to that without LSE's dynamic example it is doubtful if these subjects would have taken off in Europe in such a big way.</p>

<p>Now, given LSE's tremendous record, I'm sure that if it branched out into the humanities or pure sciences it would do just as well as it has done in the areas of teaching and research that it did so much to create in their modern form...Watch out, JKH/uWarwick!</p>

22

<p>Sanmari, it's perfectly reasonable to declare that Oxbridge is better known generally than LSE, or any other non-American universities, in the States. After all both universities for many centuries were the only universities that existed in England: they got a massive head start and didn't have to worry about competition. LSE has existed for just over a hundred years.</p>

<p>However there are plenty of people in the USA who are unaware of any university outside the USA, and who wouldn't know what you were talking about if you mentioned Oxford. They might even have difficulty in name-recognising Berkeley or Stanford -universities celebrated across the globe-they're certainly well known in the UK and in France and Germany or for that matter in Singapore or Sydney -at least among the movers and shakers and opinion formers. It might be different if you asked the mythical 'man in the street'.</p>

<p>What can be claimed is that LSE is very well known among the power elites in the USA, and among their equivalents worldwide: this is why for many years it has had at least a thousand North American students at any one time (a very high proportion of its student body) and has produced four Canadian premiers, one US President and figures like David Rockefeller and Paul Volker and James Rubin. </p>

<p>There's a constant interchange with key US figures: for instance the outgoing head of Homeland Security, Tom Ridge, came to give a speech not long ago. Lawrence Summers (Sumner?), the Harvard boss, is a regular visitor and always talks, on the record, about how much he likes the place and the happy memories he has of it;Robert McNamara turns up every now and then and a regular visitor is Paul Krugman -in fact he's giving a speech at LSE soon, but he turns up most years for a month or two as a visiting academic. The politician John Edwards, John Kerry's running mate is speaking next week, oh and Clinton came to give a lecture a couple of years ago and talked about how in times of crisis 'the world turns to LSE for answers..' These are just a few examples.</p>

<p>So don't underestimate us...</p>

23

<p>I have actually lived in many places from Paris to New Delhi, including Paris, Berlin, Beirut and Dubai. I can tell you that Michigan is just as well known as LSE. Investment Banks respect Michigan's B School more than LSEs, Manufacturing giants like Airbus, Siemens, Nokia respect Michigan's Engineering program more than LSE's, doctors and dentists around the World klnow of Michigan but are not very familiar with LSE etc... Even among Polityical Scientists and Economics, Michigan's reputation holds its own vs LSE. You speak of the "power elite"? That is where Michigan truly shines. Among academics around the World, Michigan is regarded as one of the main pillars of education. What major organization does not have Michigan as one of its main hunting grounds? What respected scholar does not look to Michigan as one of the few major research centers around the World?</p>

24

<p>Alexandre, you're flat out wrong, and your reasons for being so are embarrassingly transparent. I feel slightly awkward needing to tell you that LSE doesn't have a business school or an engineering program.</p>

25

<p>Why is that? What is so "embarrassingly transparent?</p>

26

<p>Well, you said you're going to Michigan, or are already there. I couldn't tell which.</p>

27

<p>That is correct TimR, I did my undergraduate studies at Michigan. I also did my graduate studies at Cornell. And I am not taken to making sweeping or whimsical comments simply because I attended a university. Hatingtonyblair is an LSE student. You do not see me accusing him of bias or claiming that Michigan is superior to LSE do you?</p>

28

<p>Well it seems to me the point of your posts in this thread is to assert Michigan's superiority to LSE, or rather to convince yourself of it. I'm sorry Alexandre, but while Michigan is a tremendously accomplished school, LSE just blows it out of the water in terms of international prestige. There is just no question. This isn't something you can prove but it seriously shouldn't even be up for debate.</p>

29

<p>TimR, I never claimed Michigan is superior to LSE. It is you guys who are claiming that LSE is superior to Michigan. </p>

<p>I clearly stated that outside of the UK and the US, the two schools are equally respected. Obviously, in the UK, LSE is more respected than Michigan and in the US, Michigan is more respected than LSE. </p>

<p>And no offense to you Tim, but I have far more exposure to universities and global prestige than you do. It is a subject I have carefully studied for the last 15 years. According to people in the know, Michigan is one of the 20 or so most respected universities in the World. With the exception of maybe Oxford and Cambridge, no British university is markedly more reputable than Michigan. </p>

<p>Michigan has a globaly recognized Business school, Medical School and Engineering program. Those are the programs that make a university reputable. I will not go into the little details because they are not necessary to this debate, but to imply that LSU is far more reputable than Michigan is actually not correct.</p>

30

<p>I would argue otherwise as well. Michigan is very well-known amongst the political elite. That's not to say that LSE isn't as well, but it's not like either one are standing on the shoulders of giants. They are both giants amongst giants.</p>

31

<p>"With the exception of maybe Oxford and Cambridge.."</p>

<p>WHAT?!!!!?!?! Michigan cannot even begin to enter the same stratosphere as Oxbridge on its best day. Moreover, who are these people "in the know" that you keep mentioning, Alexandre? Correct me if I'm wrong, but I was made to believe that Umich is not even the best PUBLIC school in the nation.</p>

<p>I could be wrong though.</p>

32

<p>Michigan actually is one of the top 2 or 3 publics in the US. The top 2 or 3 publics in the US are among the top 10-15 overall, so they are up there. And by the way, the people in the know are CEOs of fortune 500 companies, recruiting managers at those companies, top professors and researchers, top intellectuals etc...</p>

<p>And no university on Earth is significantly superior to Michigan in any way...and that includes Oxford and Cambridge. So your comment about Michigan not being in the same "stratosphere" as Oxbridge is way off.</p>

33

<p>Hatingtonyblair - "So don't underestimate us..."</p>

<p>Nobody underestimates LSE. But you might want to be careful not to overestimate LSE here. Less is always more.</p>

34

<p>Alexandre, you are suffering a severe case of insecurity. Who are the EXACT Fortune 500 employees who say Umich is ranked with/above LSE? I mean...exactly.</p>

35

<p>Michigan is definitely better than LSE. From where I come from, LSE is not as highly regarded as the top American universities, Oxford and Cambridge.</p>

36

<p>DevilMayCry, I am not insecure. You are entitled to your opinion. If you truly believe Michigan is very inferior to LSE, go ahead. Just don't go spreading such incorrect information to students who seriously want to find a good fit for their academic needs.</p>

<p>This thread is about global reputation. So we are talking about overall reputation of certain schools. So when we speak of Michigan, we are including Michigan's top 10 MBA program, the top ranked graduate school of Engineering, Michigan's top 10 Medical school and every other major department. Academe consistantly ranks Michigan among the top 10 in the US, both at the graduate and undergraduate levels. If you can find be a single ranking that is derived from academics that does not rank Michigan among the top 10, let me know. Corporations and recruiters rank each individual program at Michigan among the top 6 or 7 in the nation.</p>

37

<p>Hey Alexandre, </p>

<p>Hehe, your fierce comments amused me:) Just to see what you make of it, I collected a bunch of rankings and encyclopedia entries that all prove the comments you received:)</p>

<p>Michican’s MBA is 24th according to latest FT
<a href="http://rankings.ft.com/rankings/mba/rankings.html%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://rankings.ft.com/rankings/mba/rankings.html&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p>

<p>Michigan in the US overall is 22nd
<a href="http://www.usnews.com/usnews/edu/college/rankings/brief/natudoc/tier1/t1natudoc_brief.php%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://www.usnews.com/usnews/edu/college/rankings/brief/natudoc/tier1/t1natudoc_brief.php&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p>

<p>LSE & World Rankings
League tables published by British newspapers consistently rank the LSE inside the top five academic institutions in the country. In recent years, the LSE has become the second largest overall research university in the United Kingdom, second only to Cambridge, and the largest in the social sciences.
In November 2004, the LSE was ranked the 11th best university in the world by the Times Higher Education Supplement world league table of universities. In that same paper, the LSE was ranked the second best university for the study of the social sciences (behind only Harvard in the United States). It was also reported that the LSE is the most international school in the world, with just over 70% of its student body coming from outside the United Kingdom, and well over 130 countries represented on campus in any given year. During the 1950s and 60s, the School had more countries represented on campus than the United Nations. In a 2003 profile of the School, The Guardian newspaper depicted the LSE as having had "more influence on the contemporary political world than any other university in the world."</p>

<p><a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/London_School_of_Economics#LSE_.26_World_Rankings%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/London_School_of_Economics#LSE_.26_World_Rankings&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p>

<p>You might want to compare it with the Michigan entry in the encyclopedia…</p>

<p><a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/University_of_Michigan%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/University_of_Michigan&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p>

<p>As you can see…Michigan is a very, very, good uni, but in terms of impact on world politics, reputation worldwide, level of research in the social sciences, ….Michigan is simply not in the same league. My flatmate, who notably IS from the uni of Michigan laughed her ass off about yr entries. Hehe…and just to assure you, I go to Cambridge uni (PhD).</p>

<p>(PS I must admit that being the university where the voice of Darth Vader studied makes it come very close after LSE!! May the force be with you:))</p>

38

<p>I would agree that in terms of reputation, LSE is really superior to UMich.</p>

39

<p>I really do not see how that proves anything. Most of those "heads of state" seem to come from fromer Brittish colonies.</p>

<p>By the way, Michigan has 5,000 international students from 125 countries. </p>

<p>Michigan is pretty good in the Social Sciences too. In the US, it is around #10 in Economics, #2 in Political Science and Psychology, #4 in Philosophy, #1 in Anthropology, #3 in Sociology and #6 in history. Obviously, Michigan's strengths are not merely limited to the Social Sciences.</p>

<p>As you point out, the FT ranked Michigan's MBA program #12 (not #24 as you claim) among US MBAs in its last ranking. And the Wall Street Journal ranked Michigan's MBA #1. BusinessWeek Ranked Michigan #6 and the USNWR ranked Michigan's MBA program #10. As a Business program, it is generally considered one of the top 10 in the World. </p>

<p>You conveniently forget to mention Michigan's top 5 or 6 school of Engineering, its top 10 Medical School, its top 5 or 6 Law School. </p>

<p>Michigan also has top 5 programs in Dentistry, Geology, Music, Nursing and Pharmacy and top 10 programs in Architecture, Education, Mathematics and Public Policy and Affairs.</p>

<p>You also seem to neglect the fact that Michigan spends more on research ($750 million/year) than Oxbridge and the University of London combined. </p>

<p>The LTs ranking of universities is certainly valid. So are several others. For example, the USNWR ranks Michigan 4th in the US are the graduate level. The NRC also ranks Michigan 4th. The SJTU rankings has Michigan at #19 in the World. The USNWR ranking of America's best colleges does indeed rank Michigan #22, but the peer assessment score of that ranking, the academic ranking of institutions according to university leaders, places Michigan in the top 10 annually.</p>

<p>At any rate, this is a pointless debate. Depending on one's interests, LSE and Michigan will obviously attract different people. Michigan is more likely to attract students interested in studying in the US, particularly in the fields of Engineering and Business. LSE is more likely to attract students who wish to study in the UK, in the fields of Economics or Political Science. But that does not answer the all-important question. Which was has a great international reputation. I do not believe either one has the edge over the other. I personally respect LSE a great deal because I know it inside and out. You obviously know very little about Michigan. Take the time to know it well before passing judgement.</p>

40

<p>LSE is an outstanding school - certainly on par with the top tier schools in the US (outside of HYPSM).</p>

<p>That said, I think LSE suffers from constantly being in the shadow of UK's version of HYPSM (i.e. Oxbridge), much like other top tier schools in the US (e.g. Cornell, Penn, Dartmouth, Brown vs. HYPSM) These are all elite schools at the end of the day and to try and draw huge differences amongst them is a bit like splitting hairs - i.e. you're gonna get a top quality education at any of these outstanding institutions.</p>

<p>At any rate, I've largely been very impressed with the LSE grads I've met over the years .... (though as a side note, I can't honestly say that I've been really impressed with the majority of Mich grads I've come across - save Alexandre!)</p>