<p>Hmmm does it every really “hurt” honest students to tighten up things for cheaters? I’m not sure I agree with that.</p>
<p>I must say that I am shocked at the lengths some students go to to cheat. Printing physics answers onto a Coke label? Wouldn’t it be faster and easier to just learn the physics, and more valuable, too? Surely, anything that can be printed onto a label could be more easily memorized.</p>
<p>I consider it unfortunate that some students compromise their educational experience to game the GPA rules to maximize their GPA, but I don’t think it can be considered cheating.</p>
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<p>The motivation is the same. Some just choose different means. The pressure to achieve numbers is incredibly intense because the kids have been taught best that the educational experience takes a back seat to achieving the magic numbers. The pressure comes from all corners, but most importantly, it comes from parents. If we want to see the motivation behind all of the gaming and cheating, all we need to do is look in the mirror.</p>
<p>I heard the Coke/water bottle trick in 200 5 or 6…my oldest told me kids he knew that had done that. Shortly after that they banned drinks in the classroom during quizzes and tests. Most schools that are well managed catch up to these tricks pretty darn quickly. I don’t get too concerned about the GPA thing. There is enough data out there that colleges can quite easily figure out GPA in context of rigor about and between high schools.<br>
I’d like to see the standardized testing business get cleaned up. In 2006 it was one and done with my #1. When number 2 came along they had a mandatory class for juniors to prepare them for testing and he was 2x and done and scored pretty much the exact same composit as #1…my #3 is now telling me he wants to test “as many times as he can fit in.” I’m just disgusted with the whole thing…the business of it and the cheating that goes along with it and the head banging over 50 points or 1 or 2 points on an ACT composite score. Then came super scoring and score choice and a myriad of smoke and mirrors all designed to make kids “want” or feel the need to take these tests more than once. My kids and my family are testing business’ prime market…and if I’m disgusted I’m pretty sure I’m not alone.</p>
<p>At dinner I asked my freshman son about this and he claims it’s common to have someone take the SAT/ACT as a “ringer”.
He claims he knows 10 kids that have had this “service” done, mostly athletes BUT, just to get “decent” scores.
He also claims they use regular IDs because they aren’t scrutinized that closely. His HS doesn’t administer the SAT so, always a different school.</p>
<p>AMAZING</p>
<p>Perhaps the SAT should be administered the same way that the PSAT exam is given; in school on the school day. Schools would definitely have more control even if it means limiting the number of times a student can take the exam to 2x a year (once in the fall and once in the spring)…</p>
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<p>This would cost the College Board and ACT Corporation lots of money. Let’s face it: this “opportunity” to retake the tests over and over is a cash cow for the duopoly that control this business. They’re not so much interested in stopping cheating as they are in saving their brands’ “college predictive” credibility whenever a scandal manages to reach the public eye.</p>
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<p>In my son’s case, he sought waivers for honors level prerequisites so that he could immediately take the AP classes. I don’t see how he “compromised” anything except his boredom at being taught too slowly for his natural ability. At the time he did so, elite schools were not even under consideration because we “knew” we couldn’t afford them. A few months later, I discovered CC and learned that nowadays top-20 colleges were practically free for those with low income and exceptional stats.</p>
<p>LorumIpsum, of course I was not referring to students like your son, who clearly arranged the best possible education for himself, which apparently, in his case, also (as a side effect) maximized his GPA. I have heard of students who deliberately take lower-level courses where they can get A’s rather than harder courses where they might struggle for C’s, or pass up courses they’d like to take because they aren’t weighted. Different schools have different systems.</p>
<p>Why does this, or would this, be limited to ‘rich kids’? Surely a high SAT score, however obtained, leads to great savings in merit scholarships. Any parents with wherewithall but zero integrity can view this as a great return on investment.</p>
<p>Find it hard to believe this is only now coming to light. AS IF this is new. Testing agencies couldn’t care less, and would rather we not think about it (costs them a bundle to raise the security around it).</p>
<p>Now I understand why SAT scores have been going up for decades despite what seems like a decline in educational quality.</p>
<p>Where I live, the PSAT isn’t given during school. It’s given on the weekend here.</p>
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<p>Undoubtedly there’s always going to be some gaming of the system when the results have potential real-world benefits, be it a more-elite college or a merit scholarship at State U. This year’s expected valedictorian-to-be at my son’s old high school transferred out of AP Bio during the first two weeks; not too long thereafter we discovered that the teacher rarely gave out more than 2 As – and tested on things she never covered in class. Was this gaming the system or just a wise analysis of the potential risk-reward ratio?</p>
<p>Taking a less-demanding class in schools where GPAs aren’t weighted becomes a delicate balancing act since one also needs to qualify as having taken the “most rigorous course load.” Do the “winners” in these contests turn out later in life to become more-effective decision-makers, jettisoning time- and money-wasting opportunities for better alternatives? I have no idea, but it’s something to consider – everything can be a learning experience, even learning to “work the system.”</p>
<p>“Ewing, who is the spokesman for College Board noted that because instances like the one in Great Neck are rare, there is no need to review security measures ahead of this weekend’s exam, the largest of the year with over 700,000 students already signed up.”</p>
<p>if there not making changes to this weekends exam. Do you think they will make changes after this weekends exam?</p>
<p>i guess cheaters do win at the end:(</p>
<p>^ Just absolutely no incentive for CB to invest in security and validity of the testing situation (nor draw attention to the potential problem) until or unless there is an outcry and the test loses credibility (and not sure if that will happen). </p>
<p>I recall when there was a big security problem and they suspended testing of the GRE or GMAT in a certain country (forget the details now but about 5 years ago), and at the time they tried so hard to downplay it. </p>
<p>I know for a fact that we won’t even look at students with super high scores from a particular country where our experience has shown that the many “99th percentile test takers” do not at all live up to their GRE scores in real life. I’ve seen applicants that went from 25th percentile for 4 tests on the GRE then shoot up to the high 90s on the last test. I believe the problem is far far far bigger than is acknowledged.</p>
<p>Maybe it has already been mentioned on the thread, but the MCAT has gone to finger printing— to see if the test taker is the same one that shows up at med school. There is an obvious reason they were driven to do this. Why would it be different for any other standardized test? </p>
<p>The only difference is that the number of test takers is much larger and who wants to invest in it if they don’t have to (yet)?</p>
<p>Well, it is a question of who has the leverage, the power. There is a three-way or four-way relationship here. (CB/ETS, students, colleges; high schools)</p>
<p>CB/ETS are motivated to make money- minimal expenses on things like security, multiple tests taken- that will be their modus operandi until they are pressured to change. One thing that would make them change is if STUDENTS refused to take the test, which is obviously not likely. [is the ACT having as many issues with cheating, btw?]
The only reason why students would stop taking their tests would be if the COLLEGES stopped using the scores- not likely without an alternative, BUT the colleges could threaten to stop using the scores, as they do have other ways to evaluate the applicants, at least until the CB/ETS make changes. And there is also a growing list of colleges that are “test-optional.”</p>
<p>So I think we are back to preventing, discovering and penalizing cheaters as the best way to improve a system that we are stuck with, for now, anyway…</p>
<p>Unless someone wants to start a testing agency to compete with CB!!! [which would be a much-needed improvement to the systems in place- we need to break the monopoly]</p>
<p>I advocate that the colleges allow 1x per test. I mean, for the SAT, there is the PSAT, so that should be enough. And there are plenty of less expensive options to get exposure to the the various CB tests beforehand for practice.</p>
<p>I think if kids took each test just once, they would have more time to devote to their schoolwork and EC’s and sleep and downtime and creativity, and would alleviate some of the crazy time pressures. Since it is expensive to pay for all these rounds of tests, it would be a savings and would be fairer. If a maximum # of testings were set to be higher, say at 2 times, it would be imperative to require that ALL the scores be reported- SCORE CHOICE is a gimmick that promotes re-testing, and also conceals cheating patterns. Meanwhile, standardized tests have been shown to be more of an indicator of opportunities than aptitudes…</p>
<p>Obviously, proctoring/admittance needs to be handled much more consistently and strictly. ETS must handle this. And use new techniques. Right now, the high schools are sort of caught in the middle- they want their students to succeed, get into the best colleges they can, and they are proctoring the tests- this is a dangerous situation. I think the HS needs to get out of the middle of this.</p>
<p>To me, since the testing is about getting into college, the COLLEGES need to re-evaluate the system, and PUT PRESSURE ON CB to tighten their security practices, with the threat to go test optional or to drop the SAT and AP altogether. The colleges MUST be questioning the integrity of the scores, and also of the applicants…</p>
<p>Could the colleges SUE cheaters? lax proctors? ETS or CB? What sort of contracts are de facto in place here? What recourse is there?</p>
<p>The CB NEEDS the COLLEGES’ acceptance and endorsement of their tests to SURVIVE. </p>
<p>What reforms would you like to see? What do you think would make the CB change?</p>
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<p>It could be that med schools and law schools insisted on tighter procedures because many of their admitted students weren’t able to perform the class assignments. Elite undergraduate schools, however, readily admit that a great many of the students they turned down (due to fierce competition) would be quite capable of doing the work.</p>
<p>With a holistic admissions approach at the top schools, relatively few applicants with faked SAT/ACT tests will have the necessary other credentials to be accepted. Of those that do, these students may well be PREFERRED, because the kid who can cough up $2500 for someone to take his SAT is also likely one who will receive little or no financial aid – a strong benefit for schools who endowments have taken a big hit in recent years.</p>
<p>Aside from the show-trial media benefits to keep the problem in check, no one really benefits from an extreme crackdown: not the testing agencies, not the high schools who proudly publish their standardized test results, and not the colleges who get “a dash” of good-enough students with minimal reductions in “list price” tuitions.</p>
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<p>I like a previous poster’s suggestion to require fingerprints as “signature”, in case the identity of a test taker is ever disputed afterwards. </p>
<p>Another cost efficient method may be to increase the incentive for students to report cheating should they witness it. The common perception is that it is common, and that reporting cheating is not going to benefit you in any way-- if anything, the whole testing room may be required to retest if CollegeBoard investigates, and then you’ll have to face the wrath of everyone affected. It would be nice to reverse this view so that people see the reporting of cheating as protecting the rights of everyone else. </p>
<p>Two years ago, there was a thread on CC where someone was asking whether he/she should report another student who was blatantly trying to apply early to both a SCEA and ED school at the same time. The far popular response was no, that will simply ruin the person’s career, until someone pointed out that there is a chance that a college will “blacklist” the entire high school if this happens. Then everyone jumped the boat. We need something like this for the SAT, especially if it’s true that like others said, students know when cheating is happening- a deterrent from knowing about cheating but not reporting it.</p>
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About three weeks from now, it will be back in the darkness again, only to periodically come to light again.</p>
<p>Cheating is epidemic-- (I just left this forum, frustrated with thinking about it, and went to the NY Times which has a story about top-ranked tennis players banished for game fixing!). At our school its a way for geeks to buy friendship, so common that kids who don’t hand over their work to others are ostracized for being unwilling to “share”. Tightened security answers the immediate issue, but how do we get to the roots?</p>
<p>"but how do we get to the roots? "
I can tell you how to get to the roots. On your taxes be above reproach. It is still wrong to cheat on your taxes, even though “everyone is doing it”. When you see on your check at dinner that you were not charged for something you should have been, point it out to the waiter. Its the right thing to do. When you know your friends kids are doing wrong, let the parents know. I know I would want to know.
It is OUR responsibility as parents to do whats right, I believe it is called being an example.</p>