<p>bovertime: and the mom, who said such a nasty description, not only said it to her younger son as a way to discourage a playdate, but she is also a school nurse!</p>
<p>vlines, I know that is from a separate thread from a student who cheated, but it’s certainly something CB should do about it in any case.</p>
<p>Here is another thread today…I am posting these to those that did not think cheating was as wide spread as stated in some of the articles recently. </p>
<p><a href=“http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/sat-act-tests-test-preparation/1218175-so-i-cheated-sat-ii.html[/url]”>http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/sat-act-tests-test-preparation/1218175-so-i-cheated-sat-ii.html</a></p>
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I feel exactly the opposite; they should make an effort to hire proctors who do not know, or have any relationship to the students, and the tests should be sealed till the time of the exam. There have been documented issues where the home-school-teachers had a vested interest in their students doing well in some tests that led to cheating. </p>
<p>Even if it isn’t so cut-and-dry, I don’t think it’s a good idea in a standardized test for proctors to know the students. What if the teacher knows the students are really great kids, but come from really disadvantaged backgrounds, and seeing them working at the end of the test, conveniently adds a few more minutes? The teacher could have a side job as an SAT tutor and has a vested interest in seeing his students do well. </p>
<p>Actually there was a thread many years ago where a teacher said she had access to a standardized test (not SAT/ACT) several days prior to the exam. She took it upon herself to read the test so that she could go over some of the words on the exam in class because she felt her students wouldn’t have been exposed to them because of their demographics.</p>
<p>Dad of 3- that is a good point. Maybe using some of the professional test sites, or even local community colleges to administer the tests would be better. </p>
<p>I do think that the level of pressure put on students, teachers, colleges and communities with the standardized tests is a problem. I just have no idea how to fix it without handicapping the college admissions process.</p>
<p>limabeans, I have the same questions-- D is one of those who tells me what she hears/sees at school and it’s a lot. I don’t know most of the parents in this huge school district. I also think kids “brag” about cheating and likely exaggerate to ‘show off’. If the parents were friends I would definitely alert them-- but I’d have to take the school apart to really begin to deal with it. And it would only be a beginning, because, as you say, the parents are reinforcing it. Also, I’ve seen the school deal with things way too harshly-- suspending kids who admit to small infractions while others lie about big ones. Ugh-- and honestly, this is a pretty good school with a lot of good teachers and kids. Oh yes, and while the principal is dealing with kids who score cocaine on class outings, this looks like small stuff!</p>
<p>I do think professional test sites are the way to go in the future. With more online courses there is a greater need for exam centers that can validate testing for all kinds of things. They could be specially equipped with cameras in the room and generally organized to prevent cheating. It is harder to do this with the SAT since there are so many people taking the same test at once, but it would be nice to see more certified testing centers in the future.</p>
<p>Dad<em>of</em>3, seeing a test ahead of time, or storing the tests if the tests are done over several days is almost standard practice in the different schools where i have taught. Certainly, as a teacher, I’ve read test answers every year. We were even encouraged to erase excess marks in the booklets, but of course, not change any answers.</p>
<p>The reason I suggested the procters know the kids is because the proctors know who cheats, the kids who don’t even read the questions, the kids who like to sit together (but shouldn’t), and the kids who have trouble with time management. I do not think they should help the kids at all, but they know who to watch and where to seat the kids.</p>
<p>The only way CB is going to make a real change to curb cheating is when colleges threaten to stop using its tests.</p>
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<p>I think that this is exactly what the cheating scandal in DC was about. Teachers that were instructed to erase marks in booklets and on answer sheets. I remember that whole discussion.</p>
<p>And seeing tests ahead of time in our state is NOT standard practice. Tests are under extreme lockdown, and no one is permitted to see the standardized tests.</p>
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I’m not disputing that these are standard practices; I am just saying that if they are, it’s bad practice. I don’t see one good reason why a teacher should ever see a test ahead of time, or have the test in a place where there is an opportunity to do so.</p>
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If a teacher needs to read test answers, it should be in the same manner a student does - you get the answers mailed back to you several weeks later. Not before it’s graded where you dangle an opportunity for cheating.</p>
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I can see the teacher advising the students what constitutes excess markings during the class before the test, maybe having a practice test in class, and telling the students what not to do, but that should be it. If, in fact, the markings have to be erased for the machine to read it better, I can even understand some anonymous person at CB doing this. But to have Johnny’s teacher looking at his answer sheet armed with a pencil and eraser just after the exam is plain wrong, and if CB encourages this, it is misguided.</p>
<p>The test booklets I was referring to above was for 2nd, 3rd, and 5th grade tests. I actually didn’t see tests days before they were given, but if that test was conducted over several days, I had access to the test over those days. Let’s say the writing test was given on day one, I could still see the questions in math, reading, language arts (spelling & grammar), science, and social studies as well. It’s possible I was teaching math classes on MTW, even if their math tests weren’t until Thursday and Friday.</p>
<p>What I noticed, having access to these test questions over many, many years is that the test included similar questions year-to-year. Even if I didn’t have direct access to tests beforehand, it wouldn’t have taken much to know the types of questions my students would be asked.</p>
<p>Come to think of it, the cheating scandal in LI involved one kid taking the same SAT test over and over. Wouldn’t he have performed better each time, if nothing else, but because he knew what to expect?</p>
<p>Just jumping in to say that some of us live by the rule. My kid came back from testing. Reported nothing unusual. They checked ID’s as they always do. 20 kids per room with a proctor. She doesn’t think anyone was cheating. She doesn’t notice much cheating going on at her HS, either. Doing homework is voluntary at her HS, tests are closely supervised. School sends final reports to colleges. A few years ago, someone had a D in PE reported in the final school report. The kid’s admission to an elite college was on the chopping block for a while. I still can’t believe kids at Great Neck got away with cheating on SAT. D’s school can be lenient with reporting suspensions if they decide it merits a second chance, usually some petty indiscretion. Hopefully, seeing Tulane students expelled deters futures cheaters. I seriously doubt that a few hundred point advantage in SAT is worth risking that.</p>
<p>Our particular school hasn’t administered either an ACT or an SAT in years and years except for the now state required ACT which is not open to kids from other schools. I believe for our HS the home school kids “register” their address with the school and are able to take the state required test at the HS. The kids travel a couple miles to a bigger high school for the regular scheduled ACTs and S2 never took an SAT. S1 had to travel over an hour to find an SAT school. There are just too many regional variations in the two test popularities.</p>
<p>Having the high schools administer is not practical. Frankly the colleges require these tests not the high schools. The testing businesses and the colleges have to figure out the solution.</p>
<p>Here is another thread about SAT cheating for everyone that thinks cheating is not wide spread. </p>
<p><a href=“http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/sat-preparation/1218664-reporting-cheaters.html[/url]”>http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/sat-preparation/1218664-reporting-cheaters.html</a></p>
<p>We are in a district not far from Great Neck. My son said that security seemed fine, they looked at his ID, he didn’t recognize the proctor. I think but I forgot to ask him that kids are placed in rooms alphabetically, which reduces the chance of kids setting next to other kids with whom they’ve planned to cheat.</p>
<p>I think cheaters’ names should be reported and all colleges advised.</p>
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<p>This may solve the ID problem, but it opens up other cheating possibilities when the proctors are in on the cheating scheme (and there can be some motivation if the proctors associated with the school want to increase the school’s prestige by raising the average test scores or list that more students went on to good colleges).</p>
<p>Long ago, when I took the SAT, I had to go to other schools to take it because my high school (which was not tiny or anything like that) was not available as a testing center.</p>
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<p>At the college level, it is widely believed that medical and law schools are focused on GPA and do not care about course rigor (beyond the minimum pre-med courses in the case of medical schools), so it is not surprising that some college students search out the easiest A courses to “protect their GPA” for medical or law school purposes.</p>
<p>Such practices are not actual “cheating”, but do medical and law schools really want to give this type of incentive to college students? (Perhaps they do…)</p>
<p>You all will love this one. 3 years ago S1 and 2 teammates took the ACT out of state during an out of town baseball tournament. I had called ahead and learned that there would potentially be seats open. None of the boys grabbed their wallets out of their gear bags and none of them were asked to show ID. They must have looked very honest in their dirty baseball uniforms.</p>
<p>my daughter took her SATs in Argentina, while on semester abroad. She said if she wanted to cheat, she could have, big time. No IDs, no checks, no proctors.</p>
<p>It’d be cheaper than paying someone $2K</p>
<p>Fingerprints and digital photos? There are about 4-5 millions test takers a year. What do we do with 5 million new fingerprints/photos every year? I like the honor system. Students are expected to be honest. And they ARE. How many of 5 million testers do you think are cheaters? 5,000? Not counting petty ones desperate to gain 10-20 point advantage. 0.1%. Do we want to create a massive ID checking system to catch that? Not if I am in charge. My D’s testing center opens at 7 am. They allow kids to take the test as soon as a room is full with 20 kids. No line, no hassle. She is out by 12. I doubt that it will be that easy if fingerprinting is introduced.</p>