Looking for a great fit LAC

College Search & Selection
201

I think AOs don’t want a response to every email. They are BUSY at this time of year. If she has a real question that can’t be answered otherwise, sure. Or if they ask for a response. And the “generic emails” – maybe just marketing materials in electronic format from the college. Not intended for response.

The application is really the thing. That is where she gets a chance to communicate with them. She should focus most of her attention on that.

Glad to hear she is perking up a bit. ED rejections are hard, and a lot of kids stall for a short period after them.

202

@intparent Do you think one email or none at all? She can’t express interest by visiting, too late for an interview. I am concerned there might be something wrong with her app that I am not savvy enough to figure out. This was the first time her GC had ever seen the common app and G had to walk him through submitting more than once. The first time they walked him through he thought it was submitted and so did Grinnell but it wasn’t so they called him again.

I don’t know what it looks like on his side but what if something isn’t communicated properly. Like schedule conflicts or lack of more IB classes? Something we have no control over but the GC needs to explain?

I am personally beginning to feel a little fear about these three schools that seem to be a good fit even with her current scores. What if something is off that my D can’t fix on her end?

The common app is pretty straight forward as to what my D puts in. There isn’t a ton of ways to tweak it. I just don’t know. My fear is that it is something with our school?

We’ll see as we should hear from Knox, Earlham, and Beloit before the end of the year.

Her current stats should make her a viable applicant for any of the three.

203

If you want to get even more unvarnished, check out the restroom graffiti.
The campus bulletin boards also can be telling (w.r.t. the political atmosphere, internship and research opportunities, “stress management” ads, etc.)

204

@tk21769 That would be a great idea for an IG or Twitter account. I’m unsure where we could get that information unless we visited. I do spend a lot of time on Twitter deep diving for students who include the school in their hashtags. It can be interesting.

205

OP,

I could be wrong, but I sense that you’re sort of swimming adrift, and as people mention schools (Carleton, Reed, Bates, Oberlin), you sometimes light up. I’m rooting for your child. I really am. But even if your daughter scores 30 or higher on the ACT, it’s not like she’s an auto-admit for these schools, which reject plenty of high-achieving students. Plus, you mentioned the importance, ideally, of your daughter staying closer to your Kansas home, which is why you have wisely targeted the midwest. Some of the schools mentioned do not offer merit money (Carleton, Bates) and/or do not offer very much merit money.

I think that you should stick with your original list. In particular, several of your schools–Beloit, Knox, Earlham–are great stand-ins for Grinnell. Full disclosure: I am a Knox grad (albeit it twenty years ago), and both when I was a student and now, we had plenty of students who chose Knox over Grinnell, Carleton, Northwestern, and Reed (when I visited, I had lunch with students, one of whom had been accepted to Reed; when I asked her why she didn’t go to Reed, she said that Reed was too liberal even for her (she was clad all in black and had her hair dyed a flamboyant color); thus, as others have noted, Reed is an intense environment; I consider myself strongly progressive, but I would be viewed as a card-carrying Republican at Reed). Where was I? Oh, yes, we had plenty of students choose Knox over other schools. True, sometimes the choice to attend Knox was based on finances (the Knox financial aid package was too good to turn down), but for others it was simply the right fit.

Back in the mid-90s, I had to decide between Beloit and Knox. Knox was my first choice, but I would have been just as happy to attend Beloit. I’d say your daughter is a near shoo-in at both of these schools, and even with the 26 on her ACT, she might be in line for the Lincoln Scholarship at Knox (the second highest merit award), which is half-tuition.

So, sure, add a school or two if it’s really important, but since you want your daughter to not go too far away, I think that you’ve pretty much canvased the Grinnell alternatives in the midwest. I also like your choice of St. Olaf (though you said you were unsure on that one), as I kind of like that school a bit more than Carleton or Macalaster (just my preference, though). There’s Lawrence in WI and Cornell College in IA, but it sounds like you want to add schools that are prestige-equal to Grinnell. But there’s the rub! At the end of the day, the average person has never heard of Grinnell (or Vassar, or Whitman, or Oberlin), and typically LAC students/families sort of know this. We make the choice to attend an LAC because we demand the rigor, the small class sizes, the ability to truly get to know our professors (often on a first-name basis). Sure, large universities (publics, Ivies) have more immediate name recognition, but we choose LACs because we know that in the long run the choice to attend the best school academically (and also the best fit personally) will not only work out but allow us to thrive. Thus, the difference between Grinnell and Knox is really no difference at all.

Best of luck to your daughter, but I’ll encourage you to await the results from Knox, Beloit, Earlham, and maybe St. Olaf. Then, if you haven’t already, try to visit these schools (if they’re financially doable) and let your daughter decide which one speaks to her most. She’ll be fine–more than fine–trust me.

206

OP,

Oh, and I can also speak about Coe. Coe College is a nice school. Its athletics are very strong, and the school is an attractive choice for Iowans and also those from surrounding states. Its culture is a bit more conservative than many of the schools on your list. I don’t mean conservative politically necessarily (though young Republicans would feel a bit more at home there); I mean that it’s more even-keeled, balanced. Coe College is what I like to call a solid, midwestern liberal arts college. I wouldn’t hesitate to send a child there if she fell in love with it, but I do think there are more interesting options in the midwest (again, this is all subjective, though).

If you’re willing to consider Coe, I would look at Cornell College in IA. Very pretty campus in a very pretty tiny town (Mt. Vernon, approx. 3,000 people). Along with Colorado College, Cornell is one of two national LACs that offer the block plan, which is the school’s number-one draw and it’s number-one criticism. One either loves or hates the block plan, where students take one class at a time, intensely for three and a half weeks. Luther College in IA is fantastic, and it has a terrific music program, but many overlook the school because, well, it’s name sort of gives away that it’s a Lutheran school. But if you’re considering St. Olaf…? Luther would be less progressive and earthy than several of the schools on your list.

207

Note: Colorado College, also discussed above, is the other school on the Block Plan.

208

This kid is more likely to be able to afford college with great need based aid IF her scores come up. Merit isn’t going to do it except for the rare school being discussed that will stack in some situations. That said s one reason I keep mentioning Dickinson – pretty much meets need, but a bit easier admit than the meets need schools that get talked about more. Yes, there are transportation costs, but they consider that in the aid package.

Yes. one email is fine. Just don’t pepper them. Be sure she gets in the email lists for all of them (I’d have her dontgat now for all the possibilities – won’t hurt if she doesn’t apply). Also – after applying she should log into the portals they give her pretty regularly. They can see who logs in and how often. If they have a “Why College X?” essay, she can talk about not being able to visit, but seeing specific majors, programs, campus facilities, clubs, etc online that appeal to her.

She can put brief notes in Additional Info about things like schedule conflicts. I don’t know if I’d try to explain much on what the school doesn’t offer. Maybe if languages top out after a couple years, or if there are no physics or calculus class is offered, I might mention that.

209

@Hapworth I wouldn’t have known the name of a prestigious LAC if it bit me in the *ss. Her Grinnell choice wasn’t based on prestige it was based on her desire to attend a school with their attributes.

I think the 3 we have submitted to are great choices. I feel like they have the qualities she seeks. I’m more interested in her being successful the next four years and beyond than I am the name of the school. Obviously need becomes a real issue. I think that is how other schools came into the mix. Which ones do a good job meeting need and find her scores acceptable, offer the rigor she desires, and have a student body she likes. That list isn’t very long.

I’m very content with Earlham, Knox, and Beloit. She is too. She doesn’t want to cast a wider net. She isn’t looking for more schools. It’s me, out of fear she won’t get in or she won’t get the aid she needs.

I can tell you she has no desire for a big school. I tried to encourage her to look at Vanderbilt, she won’t do it. I can’t even convince her to look at St. Olaf. I’m not sure if it is because she has fear of rejection or if it is too big?

She really does desire a very small, rigorous, quirky, school. I love all the positive feedback we are getting about Earlham and Knox, I think they both are special schools. She’s a special kid. Hopefully, they also see that in her app.

She doesn’t care if anybody has heard of the school. Because we hadn’t heard of most of them. Her peers haven’t heard of them. Nobody in our little bubble would have a clue about any of these schools.

I think I seemingly perk up when I hear about other schools that fit the bill and offer great aid. It’s not the name.
I spent a lot of time researching the Beloit, Knox, Earlham from a parent perspective last night. I would feel confident and comfortable putting my child in their hands.

I have moments when I become fearful. Fearful she’ll be lonely, fearful she won’t feel like she fits, fearful she’ll be out of place. These three feel safe in that regard. Of the three she first needs the fit, then acceptance, then aid. That’s a lot to ask.

I’m hopeful your assessment of her being a shoo in is correct. I know we both want to put this behind us so she can focus on thinking ahead to what her life will be like at the school she knows she will attend.

I feel really good about the three. Her comfort level is about maxed out at the three. I did perk up about Reed because of the nuclear reactor, but she didn’t really have much to say when I mentioned it to her.

Again from a parent perspective, Earlham, Knox, and Beloit appear to be very nurturing. It’s a huge transition for these kids. Knowing your child isn’t just a number or an application is a very big deal to me.

I love hearing all these positive comments about the ones she and I are most drawn to.

We have those three on the list and a few safeties that she really has zero interest in. We haven’t submitted anywhere else we want to see how this plays out. Because I do think these three in particular are great places for her to be. And most importantly, once she realized she wasn’t going to Grinnell, she focused on these three. If I had to rank in her order it would be Knox-Earlham-Beloit.

My order would be Earlham-Knox-Beloit

Although, I think she is coming closer to a tie between Earlham and Knox. Probably because I have given her my perspective and she does care what I think.

Beloit is only last and not tied because it is a bit farther away and I don’t have the resources to get her home with ease.

My only concern about Knox and maybe you can help alleviate it is her desire to go abroad, participate in research, etc. As a low income student, how do they do with supporting students in this?

That also falls into the category of her feeling like she fits amoung her peers. If she can’t embrace the same opportunities at a school as her peers because she doesn’t have the resources, will she feels out of place?

And that’s when we start thinking about some of the other schools that have been mentioned because they seem to have great resources to bridge the socioeconomic gap.

Edited to add a huge thank you. I appreciate your insight and encouragement about the three. I’ve been very discouraged for her, it’s a roller coaster for sure. I don’t know if she’ll get into any of three or if we’ll be able to come up with any out of pocket. I felt good about our top three after reading your reply. I just wanted to clarify that we are not looking for a prestigious name. As a parent I am looking for a place she will be safe and nurtured. A place where she can continue to thrive intellectually, a place that views her as an welcome and valuable addition to their community. Not a place that reluctantly gives her a chance.

I might add that even if the unthinkable happened and magically Grinnell said, oops we made a mistake, or we have room for your D…totally hypothetical because that doesn’t happen…but if it did, I don’t think she would go. I wouldn’t encourage her to go if she had been welcomed with open arms to one of the other three.

There is something to be said for being appreciated and valued.

210

@Hapworth @porcupine98 She and I discussed that kind of scheduling. Because both of those schools have been mentioned. Her app was submitted to Coe even. She’s not sure how she feels about it. One hand hand it is appealing to deep dive into one course and one course only, it appeals to the part of her that hyper focuses. But on the other hand, it could be incredibly monotonous particularly if you are working on the one or two classes that are less appealing to you.

She’s just not sure how she feels, she can see both sides. I almost think she would have to experience it to know.
She’s not even sure what a semester at a typical college will feel like. We were talking about service hours and she thought a 10 a week sounded really hard to accomplish. But she is thinking about her H.S. life. She can’t quite visualize that she won’t be as heavily scheduled as she is now.

Again, why it is so important for her to be at a small LAC that offers support to their incoming freshmen. She will be lost in a big school.

She can’t know what she doesn’t know, she can’t wrap her head around concepts she never experienced.

211

OP,

Thanks for the clarification, and let me both apologize and reword: others responding to you have been suggesting schools that are prestige-equal to Grinnell, and I misinterpreted your enthusiasm as enthusiasm to have more highly-ranked names enter the discussion. I also didn’t carefully read your initial post where you mentioned that your EFC is 0. This is “great” (I use quotes because I realize that this is not the ideal word) from an admissions/financial aid perspective. So ignore my previous remarks about merit money. You’re in a position where schools must meet every penny of cost of attendance. Trust me when I say that one of these schools, even though they’re not on the official list of full-need-met schools, will come through for you. Your daughter is exceptionally bright. She’s a Kansas scholar. She also clearly knows what she wants to realize that just seeing Grinnell helped her realize what kind of school and education she would like.

I can answer the Knox study abroad question. First, your financial aid travels with you. Essentially, studying abroad is covered by your Knox tuition. This is true at just about most schools, I believe. If you are a low-income student who feels that things like airfare, money for incidentals, etc., still make study abroad prohibitive, Knox has been addressing this. They’ve been working hard to try to make it so any student can have study abroad experiences. It’s so weird that you asked that question, because I literally just came across an article about this the other night: https://www.knox.edu/news/making-study-abroad-possible-for-more-students

As for research, what is her area of interest again? In general, LACs are not as research-intensive as universities, but, at the same time, what research there is has no competition from graduate students. Professors who engage in research will absolutely turn to bright undergraduates. I was an English major, so this is outside my purview, but I knew plenty of students in the sciences who had opportunity to either work on research or work with equipment that wouldn’t have been possible for many undergrads elsewhere. Also, just recently started, all Knox students have $2000 to use during junior or senior year toward research/independent study (it’s called the Power of Experience grant).

Just so I don’t allow my bias to rule, Earlham and Beloit are ridiculously strong among schools that produce science PhDs. Both are in the top 50 nationally (in fact, the list is dominated by LACs): https://www.cbsnews.com/news/top-50-schools-that-produce-science-phds/

Knox is no slouch in the sciences, but its standout programs are probably elsewhere: English/creative writing, art, theatre, political science, international studies. Economics is also strong. Maybe not standout, but I had a bunch of friends who were economics majors and they all got jobs upon graduation. If your daughter’s interest is in the sciences, maybe Earlham and Beloit deserve closer inspection.

212

@Hapworth She’s young, very young, late June birthday. But she loves chemistry. She will tell you it wasn’t easy for her but it brings her great satisfaction. She did two advanced chemistry classes and is now is physics with a solid 98% approaching her final.

That being said she talks at great length and excitement about nuclear fusion as an alternative energy source. She has some desire for pharmaceutical research, research in general that would make the world better for underprivileged countries or communities.

That is why she feels so strongly about anthropology/sociology/linguistics.

She’s believes (this was her essay topic btw) that you have to be able to relate to the people you intend to help with your “research” or your ideas and work will be rejected.

So, for 17 and limited education and knowledge thus far in life she thinks she wants to do research in a chemistry based field and have a very strong connection with the people she intends to help with yet unknown research.

She’s idealistic, bright, and curious. She just doesn’t yet know how all those pieces fit together yet. How could she? She hasn’t been exposed to anyone with an advanced degree to guide her.

I think that’s what a LAC is for…it will help her figure out how to do what she wants to do and what exactly that is.

Oh I should have also mentioned environmental science and research. She is passionate about preserving natural resources. I don’t know how chemistry factors into all of that but she finds peace in chemistry.

213

@grinnellhopeful If her ACT scores come back as you hope, I really, really hope she might relent and consider St Olaf. Knox, Earlham, and Beloit are great choices for her and are wonderful schools in general. But St O is also quite special. The have a program called Great Conversations for freshmen, which are themed seminar style courses ranging from philosophy, literature and science tracks. Their Buntrock Scholars program is also worth checking out, assuming a bump in scores. Their study abroad options are superb. It is a kind, respectful place and also very strong in the sciences. Total student population just under 3K, so it is not too large. The music is wonderful, if your kid is into instrumental and choral performance. The campus is beautiful. Although it’s farther away than Knox or Earlham, I think it’s prudent to have more options given your financial constraints. Good luck!

214

She’s going to do great. You can get a fantastic education at any of these schools, and it sounds like she’s bright and motivated and she’ll get the most out of it, wherever she ends up.

Of your super-shortlist schools I am only familiar with Beloit (it was on my son’s list as well), so will chime in with our impressions for whatever that’s worth: in addition to having great academics, it seemed like a place that really looks out for, and nurtures, its students. S was impressed with their communications and just the level of overall niceness. I know it was the admissions staff, and it’s their job to be nice, but they were really standouts. It seemed like a very cool place and it’s one you see mentioned often as very like Grinnell in terms of culture/vibe.

215

Beloit and Earlham seem like strong fits. Lynn O’Shaughnessy, a woman who blogs, freelance writes, and speaks about college admissions (after a career writing for business publications) is a big champion of LACs, and her son graduated from Beloit. This article that she wrote touches on physics at Beloit and how that was one of the reasons her son ultimately chose Beloit over seven other schools: https://www.cbsnews.com/news/why-my-son-chose-beloit-college/

I should also further correct what I said earlier. While I do think that lots of people were throwing around lots of school names, a student with an EFC of zero should try to gain admission to a school that guarantees to meet full need. Not only will these schools not leave you with a gap, but they have the sorts of endowments that mean that loans are often not included, or kept minimally low, so that the student graduates with zero, or close-to-zero, debt. That is important, and in my haste to respond, I sort of missed that very important detail concerning your EFC.

Still, the schools you’ve applied to already must–and I think will–present packages that cover every penny, granted that she is admitted, of course. The schools that promise to meet full need are almost entirely the “elite” colleges, and those are very difficult to get into. Thus, sure, if your daughter can score a 30 or higher and you think she has a chance at gaining admission at, say, Macalaster or Kenyon, go for it. But it’s not as if Beloit and Earlham promise not to meet your full need; they’ll try to put together strong packages as well.

Yes, if you sense that not only the nurturing academic environment of an LAC is important but also the more nurturing environment as a whole, she definitely (at least, I think) is looking in the right direction with LACs.

216

@mamaedefamilia I have been a fan of St. Olaf from the very beginning. They have been sending us recruiting material for a long time. Actually, more than Grinnell. Grinnell didn’t recruit my D in any way shape or form. She wanted to be there.

I called and spoke to admissions at St. Olaf because I wanted a little more ammo to get her to look. I “think”in her mind, it will be another Grinnell experience. I “think” she might be afraid to look and get her hopes up? As far as I know she could have already llooked, because their choir is unavoidable. And that is her only big passion outside of academics.

It could also be the distance but it’s actually closer than Beloit. The admissions person that I spoke to said her stats were definitely on par and shared some stories of kids with much lower ACT scores than her being admitted. He also reinforced because they are bigger they accept more students.

My youngest is highly interested in St. Olaf. It certainly fits the criteria and they have more money to spend per student then even Grinnell.

I don’t know, it may simply be fear?

But I would like to see her go ED2 if she wanted to apply there. And I just can’t push anymore. This has to be her choice not mine. But it does make me sad to think that she might be selling herself short. Again the other schools are fabulous and would be a great fit so if she gets into one of those three there won’t be any disappointment.

I do agree with you it’s something she should be looking at. However, I can see how it would be like Grinnell in her mind. All of the amazing opportunities, the hope for a brighter future, the affordability factor. And I suspect they would initially be excited about her. And then that huge letdown. And again wondering if she’s going to be able to go anywhere. I think that might be the issue. It’s like going out and looking for homes, you look at the house that’s completely out of your price range and you fall in love, then you can’t go back and look at what is affordable.

That’s the best analogy I can come up with. I’m at necessary even referring to price I’m talking about all the things that she would get at St. Olaf and Grinnell.

That is my educated guess because she won’t articulate anything about St. Olaf. Some schools I mention she flat out says no. Others she gets somewhat interested, keep in mind I’ve kept this very very small for her. But she has not said one word about St. Olaf. She didn’t say no. She just is reluctant to even talk about it.

I will say she did not throw away the big glossy catalogs they sent months ago…

217

OP,

If fear of rejection is truly the reason your daughter will not consider St. Olaf, I will urge you to politely encourage her to reconsider. There are three reasons for this, listed from most important on down.

  1. St. Olaf if a meets-full-need school! If your daughter is admitted, St. Olaf will make it happen financially, which seems to be what is keeping you awake at night, wanting to add a few more schools “just in case.” St. Olaf would, in theory, eliminate this worry and allow your daughter to de-stress and enjoy the remainder of her senior year.

  2. St. Olaf is not cutthroat to get into. Your daughter is pretty much right in line with a typical admit (probably higher in terms of GPA, a touch lower in terms of ACT score), and as the St. Olaf person you spoke to said, it’s twice as large as Knox/Beloit/Earlham, which means it has twice the number of seats to fill. I doubt that your daughter’s 26 on the ACT would be considered too low to gain admission. Please note, however, that loans can be part of–and probably would be part of–a financial aid award at St. Olaf, but that’s an educated guess.

  3. I earlier said that I actually prefer St. Olaf to Carleton and Macalaster. That’s an entirely subjective remark, but it does mean (at least in my opinion) that St. Olaf is one terrific place. It has a gorgeous–and I do mean gorgeous–campus, and although campus aesthetics are not the most important criteria, they sure don’t hurt! It’s academic reputation is also very strong. I honestly think too many people are turned off by the name (either because it sounds religious or sounds odd), but for the life of me I don’t know why St. Olaf isn’t one of the hottest college destinations in the country.

Please consider getting your daughter to submit an application to St. Olaf. Tell her, “Hey, it doesn’t mean you’re going. We’re just sending them some paperwork.”

218

Check out Rollins College in Winter Park FL. I loved it there. They offer good aid.

219

Just a couple of things: you are putting St. Olaf in the same category as Grinnell, but St. Olaf’s accepts twice as many students every year, so it’s not as hard as Grinnell in terms of admissions. Also, it sounds like your D is being self-protective right now. It might help to have her think of college admissions as a game. She applies to a bunch of schools with the understandimg that she will get into some and will be rejected by some. If you try to avoid rejection you might miss out on a great opportunity. Finally, you mentioned something about wanting a school that really wants and values you. Admissions makes the decision. Once that’s done, you will have no contact with them at the college for the next 4 yrs. If they show you the love it’s only short lived, so I wouldn’t base any decisions on how nice or not nice they are. (I’ll admit that I too really like and appreciate warm and friendly admissions people, but I have to remind myself that’s it not that important) Anyway, great thread. I’m learning a lot here myself.

Oh, and I agree that you might want to look at Dickinson. We toured and it was lovely. I thought it had that kind, gentle and comfortable feel you’re looking for. Pretty campus, serious students and I bet they would love a student from Kansas. Just check out the website.

220

No offense, but I think Rollins would be a lousy fit. Nothing against Rollins, as my D would probably love it, but Greek life is big, lots of wealthy kids and I don’t think you would find the intellectual vibe she wants. Think of Rollins as the antithesis of Earlham.