citymama9 is right. I live in Orlando and work in Winter Park, so I know Rollins and the area well! (I grew up in IL and have spent time in IA, which is why I know those two states so well). Rollins is a fine school, but A) it is much too far for the OP, B) Rollins is a bit more pre-professional focused than the type of classic LAC that the OP is looking at, and, C) yes, the Rollins culture does not match the OP’s daughter at all.
Hey, but maybe someone reads the thread who checks out Rollins because it is right for her/him.
I know my kid wouldn’t consider St. Olaf because of the “St.” in the name. Silly but true.
But what everyone else said : Great option, and not as competitive for entry as Grinnell. Sure it might not work out, but that’s why we all counsel against dream schools. You apply to figure out what your options are, then you fall in love with one of your options.
Attached is the NSF Baccalaureate Origins of U.S.-trained S&E Doctorate Recipients 2002-2011 (note: only institutions from which 50 or more baccalaureate recipients received S&E doctorate degrees between 2002 and 2011 were included in the analysis). https://www.nsf.gov/statistics/infbrief/nsf13323/
The information continues to support the LAC STEM path!
@Grinnellhopeful I wish I could give your daughter a great big hug. Rejection is tough, at any age, and their self worth can get so bound up with college outcomes, it is just plain hard.
Regarding St O (and then I’ll shut up), if she’s really keen on Knox and Earlham, pushing for ED2 probably wouldn’t be a great idea. Should she get accepted, she might feel that her hand was forced, know what I mean? Pitching it as one option among many might be a better way to encourage her interest.
I agree with you on their admissions office. The warmth and personal attention we received from their staff was unparalleled, and we visited a LOT of schools.
Since St. Olaf is coming up so much here, does anyone know what the social scene is like? Since there is no Greek life and the campus is dry, how and where do the students socialize on the weekends? Thanks.
@citymama9 She will love that there is no Greek life and the campus is dry!!! I know for my daughter socializing tends to be dialogue with her friends about the things that are important to her. And believe it or not her socialization that brings her joy is projects that she’s working on with her peers for IB, and choir.
When my S (who was a solid but not a super top tier student) got rejected from a college he said “That is good – now I know I applied correctly.” At first I thought the comment was a bit odd but then I realized what he was saying – that a well balanced list of reach, match, and safety schools (which his HS guidance counselor drilled the importance of into her students) would likely result in a rejection or two and if he wanted to challenge himself in terms of where he applied he had to expect that. (FWIW he ended up at a school that was a wonderful fit for him).
Rejection is never fun but this process is not about getting no rejections – it is about being sure the student has good choices in the end. I’d urge your D to look at things that way and apply to a group of schools that she has a chance at academically and appear that they will meet your financial needs. You are lovely and want the best for your D so at the risk of sounding a bit harsh, a bunch of acceptances from a few schools she likes but cannot afford to attend will not be helpful – I urge her to cast a wide net and see what happens.
@citymama9, St. Olaf may be dry, but the city of Northfield certainly is not - Northfield is also the home of Carleton College and its got a well known indi music scene.
For an admittedly-limited perspective as to St. Olaf’s “dry-campus” policy, an ER nurse at Northfield Hospital commented to our daughter that they see many more St. Olaf students coming through for alcohol-related issues than they do from that other college in Northfield that’s located down the hill (Manitou Heights) from St. Olaf.
If water flows downhill, alcohol must manage to flow uphill!
I’d heard St Olaf’s described as “damp” – technically, a dry campus, but not in actuality. But as with any school, it is about finding your “peeps” who you want to hang out with on the weekend, and there will be plenty of kids at St Olaf as well as the other midwest schools mentioned here, who are not drinking to excess.
My advice would be to apply to the schools on your list but throw in a couple of the stretch schools mentioned here as "what if"s. Select the Common App schools that don’t require an additional essay so that it’s just a matter of doing an hour or two of online work checking boxes and filling out FA documents. Then encourage your daughter to forget about these applications until March. Many of the tougher to get into schools don’t offer merit aid but they do have really good need-based aid. Spending a couple hundred bucks extra up front could result in better financial aid options which would more than cover application costs.
Many parents and students get worried that if they don’t apply ED their student will be at a disadvantage, but honestly there’s not a tremendous difference between the ED and RD application rates for unhooked kids. In other words, kids who are in a special category (legacy, recruited athlete, faculty kids, etc.) are highly encouraged to apply early. Those kids are admitted at a much, much higher rate than the standard kid applying ED. If I were in your position I would want to be able to compare offers so your daughter doesn’t get caught in the stressful position of having an uncomfortably expensive offer in hand without knowing if she might get much better aid at a second or third choice school.
If she does apply without testing to a test optional school it will be quite easy to reverse that decision if she pulls in improved scores later. She can easily have her scores unmasked on the Common App. for test-optional schools.
Damp is a great way to call it as these are college students so completely dry would be very hard to imagine. I’ve heard nothing but great things about Carleton, St. Olaf and the city of Northfield!
Regarding the social scene at St Olaf, while there are certainly some students on campus who drink, the College has a student-run social planning committee that organizes many well-attended, “dry” events. First-run films are shown at the student center almost every weekend, and students enjoy going to dances, pop concerts, and cultural/ethnic celebrations at the on-campus nightclubby venue, the Lions Pause. There’s also plenty of hanging out in the dorms’ common areas. Night-time sledding down the hill by Old Main is popular in the winter too.
Our kid’s HS was a feeder to St. Olaf. It is very damp. But there are plenty of things to do for non-drinkers, too.
One thing you want to do is not get too attached to any one school on her remaining list. She has never even set foot on any of them, and things can feel sooo different once she does that. Focus on a solid list of schools. If her scores improve, insist on a couple of meets need or very close to it applications. Then see how admissions and FA sort out. She should try to visit her top 3 affordable options for accepted student visits with an open mind, then decide. Don’t let her get hung up on one school again.
Frosh year my D said about 1/2 her dorm would go out to local bars on the weekend, party and drink. The other half (which my D was part of) stayed in and watched films or played board games and drank tea. It certainly happened at times that dorm mates would come home smashed, but it wasn’t something she talked about a lot. 'course her friend group doesn’t drink so she would have had to go out of her way to run into that. She hung out with the ‘nerd herd’ as she described it. Also it is such a musical campus; there are music performances and student productions going on constantly. Music and singing is also happening in the dorms; D said it was like living on the set of musical. Even if you don’t sing or play an instrument, 1/2 your friends will. My D has a full schedule going to her friends performances and she’s in a choir so has a lot of extracurricular stuff with that.
Obviously this sort of socializing is not for everyone, but many of the students who go to St Olaf are attracted to it precisely because of these qualities. I don’t think anyone is going there for its (non-existent) hard-core party culture.
@liska21 Your D sounds like my D. She’s gotten very hooked on St. Olaf the past few days (I think she was afraid to look at the school because she knew she would love it and thought she would be rejected like she was with Grinnell). She did submit her app with her current scores.
Maybe you could answer a choir question she has. She is not going to major in music, but choir is her thing, it’s so important to her to continue on that path. If accepted what does she need to do to audition for their choir? I’m sure they have several? She is and always has been in a very advanced and audition only choir (Acappella and Chambers). I see we missed the deadline for FA scholarships but it looks like most of those apply to music majors.
I’m also wondering if she should upload some of her choir work (video) into the portfolio section of the application? Maybe even at every school? Since it has been where she has focused her energy and time the last 6 years of her life. It’s was her only ec until this year.
@intparent Unfortunately we can’t afford to visit any of the schools unless they do a fly in for accepted students. I know Earlham will because the AO told me and my D in an email. I think Knox will send a train ticket (that was somewhat implied rather than flat out assured if she is accepted).
She is just learning as much as she can about the short list of schools from the websites.
I feel like St. Olaf will but I’m not sure where I saw that and under what circumstances they would offer that option.
There are many different choirs at St Olaf, but definitely find out about auditions. You don’t want to get into a situation where you get in, but can’t get into the choirs because you missed the auditions. My D found the St Olaf admin very helpful, so I’d try contacting them and asking about that. Definitely upload video to portfolio!
As others have said, it’s best not to get stuck on one school esp if that school that might be a bit of a reach. My D was waitlisted (aka soft rejected) at 5 schools, incl her first and second choices. Not fun, but key is to have a range so you have a good chance of getting into some. Also my D actually lost interest in her 1st and 2nd choices after getting waitlisted and was only interested in the schools where she did get in.
Concordia in Moorhead, MN is another MN liberal arts college known for choir
Here are some other LACs that I’ve seen mentioned for those looking for strong choir choices at a LAC:
Lawrence Univ, WI
Muhlenberg, PA
Gettysburg, PA
Univ of Puget Sound, WA
Wheaton (IL) if Christian
