@citymama9 It wasn’t here!!! It’s excruciating. But it was a nice distraction to get another acceptance letter with a hefty scholarship. But she was so disappointed that it wasn’t from Knox. She didn’t want to open it. lol
psh, there’s nothing new with me! just the same ol’ application polishing! 
i’m excited for your daughter to receive these acceptances as if they are my own, hahaha!
@kalons You’re a sweet pea.
Hopefully she does recognize that the acceptances from Coe and Drake are HUGE. I know your D tends to focus in on one school (and I certainly hope it works out with Knox) but for a student who wants to attend a LAC and needs a great deal of financial aid, these are wonderful acceptances with generous aid packages.
Given your documented demonstrated financial need, I am sure some of the schools that meet 95+% of demonstrated need based financial aid will come through.
Hang in there and don’t jump too quickly; you haven’t even heard back from those that are able to provide 95+% of demonstrated need based financial aid - all of these are some of the top schools in the country.
Doesn’t mean she has to go to the best school that she can be accepted to as academic fit AND environment are BOTH important, but am sure there’s even more good news to come!
We aren’t jumping too quickly. We have time as none of these were binding (great advice given by members of this community). However…she did decide to go ED2 at St. Olaf. And she did that knowing that if the financial package was not right she can decline. We feel optimistic about it, but we’be been here before with Grinnell. And she’s got some great acceptances thus far, and she really loves Knox. I think she could pull the ED2 app and go into the RD pool if she wants as long as she does it before the deadline. It’s just hard to not try to maximize admission chances at St. Olaf. They have the endowment money to spend on students. In my opinion you can’t even compare St. Olaf to any of the schools she applied to. It’s just different in it’s own way.
She submitted the fine arts scholarship application today, they extended the deadline. There is one for non music majors.
We probably won’t talk about it much anymore because she doesn’t want to be disappointed like she was with Grinnell and neither do I.
St. Olaf is a school that can promise the moon and deliver, simply because the have the money to do so.
She would also get a fantastic education in a nurturing environment. She had to really ponder the ED thing, she wasn’t sure she wanted to commit, because she thinks she loves Knox and fear of disappointment. But ultimately it was her decision. She signed the agreement with her counselor today.
Again, she is trying not to get her hopes up and we are all glad she has solid acceptances under her belt.
They will release their descions by 2/1. She did express concern that they might not be diverse enough. I told her the town might be mostly Caucasian, of Scandinavian descent, but I don’t believe the campus is. She doesn’t want to be surrounded by only white, Christians. You can’t grow if you don’t experience people and places that are different.
We would love to hear more feedback regarding diversity. Because if it isn’t diverse enough she will pull her application despite all they offer.
Until then we focus on what we have and feel grateful that she has been accepted into great schools already. And also decide if she applies to anymore once her scores come back.
Also, had she gotten the letter from Knox she might not have submitted the ED2 app. It’s so hard to,let this play out organically without my interference.
Okay – “However…she did decide to go ED2 at St. Olaf.” – I am going to say that this just isn’t a good idea if she has never visited. I don’t think this is getting through to you – a kid may not like a college once they set foot on campus. My kids visited a lot of campuses, and there were many that felt different in person than they did on site. The website and the admissions people are all about marketing. You are just seeing the “shiny” side so far. You are taking a risk for sure. And it is expensive and can be pretty traumatic for a student to have to transfer if it doesn’t work out. You can’t afford for her to make a mistake, as there is pretty much no merit for transfers, and need based aid is usually worse as well. Not trying to be a jerk… but I think this is not a great plan.]
She could change it away from EDII still - maybe she will want to when the Knox info comes (but you may not have the Knox FA letter by then?). I see that St. Olaf’s ED II date is Jan 8 – so she could change her mind up until that date.
It feels like she is desperate to be done. But that doesn’t always result in the best decision. Visiting campuses and comparing FA offers is likely to result in the best outcome.
St Olaf sounds like a great choice, as
- its an amazing school with a big endowment at $450mm,
- its in the cool big town/small city of Northfield with 5,000 students, including 2,000 at Carleton,
- while Carleton is more diverse at 61% Caucasian as its a Nationally recognized STEM powerhouse, St Olaf is 73% Caucasian which is pretty typical. That said its not as diverse as Knox which is 49% Caucasian,
- and its less than an hour from Minneapolis which is a great big city.
BUT she should also know that its a fit.
Agree with @intparent. While our DD’s had the opportunity to visit 3/4 of the schools they applied to, they were both Deferred/Denied from their EDI’s and so they had to re-engage after the Deferrals.
It was the last thing they wanted to do and getting strung out by the Deferrals until late-March stunk, but they also knew that there were several great RD schools in play, so they took it all the way through Accepted Student Days and now both love their final choices.
Well, they did a read of her FA and they are a 100% demonstrated need met, school. Part of the ED agreement states if it is not affordable she is not bound by the agreement. She is still allowed to submit applications, she does not have to withdraw her applications or decline anything until she has seen the full award.
And yes, we are aware she can pull her app before 1/8.
So, for her an ED agreement Isn’t quite as binding as it might be for others. It’s very easy for her to say she can’t afford to attend. It just gives her an edge.
Our demonstrated need has consistently been the full COA. It showed she needed to bring $288 out-of-pocket every year. That doesn’t mean that’s what it’s going to come back as.
She needed to get that app in for the edge while her GC was still available.
It’s a little bit different when your EFC is zero and your CSS profile reflects the same thing. Nothing is really binding.
And she’s actually not feeling desperate. The past 24 hours has been very empowering for her. And I am really trying to not call the shots. It’s not my life, it’s not my education. She definitely looks to me for guidance but at the end of the day, it’s her call.
And for the record no one has given us the full picture yet. They have all said once they process the FASFA they can tell us what she will get for need-based aid. She gets the full Pell Grant and the three places that have said yes also have their own state grants and institutional grants for need-based aid.
I know not everyone is in that situation.
It’s about a 6 Hour drive for us, as long as there isn’t any bad weather in the forecast, we may try to go before the eighth. Although, there won’t be any students there. She’s trying to make a connection with a current student right now.
It’s always nice when they can talk to a current freshman. We are trying to make that happen.
Agree that if she can qualify for 100% of demonstrated need met AND she loves the school once she visits then its a win-win, and if not then she’ll likely have other great choices that do meet 100% of demonstrated need in RD - her situation is very different than those looking for the best merit aid which means that EDII isn’t an option. The only downside is if they do meet 100% of demonstrated need AND she doesn’t see it as a fit, then I do think she will run afoul of the ED rules.
Agree that visiting during winter break seems less valuable than talking to current students prior to 1/8.
But she can ONLY say it if she really can’t afford the package. You can’t decide to not attend for some other reason (didn’t like the campus, though you could swing the Knox cost and she likes it better, etc). It may be “very easy to say she can’t afford it”, but it would be very unethical for her to then turn around and attend some other school that gave an equivalent package or was a little or a lot more expensive. This is why it isn’t a great idea for low income students to apply ED – they have no chance to compare FA packages between schools.
Visits during winter break aren’t super useful – no students, probably almost no professors, no option to sit in on a class, etc., but they are better than not visiting at all.
Diversity issue is her biggest concern at the moment. The choir may be the deciding factor for her if all other things are equal in the end. She has dedicated herself to her very advanced choirs throughout the years,and you won’t find a better choir. Their study abroad program is better than the other schools, that is another big deal to her. Right now the only two concerns are no Japanese program, and the unknown factor of diversity. And I think that some people don’t realize how very limited we are. Because of our financial situation, as we start to make a pros and cons list and she found a great website that does side by side comparisons…She’s going to have to fall in love with the school that gives her the best financial package and offers the biggest quantity of what she wants and needs.
Aside from Coe, each admissions office is aware of our very limited resources. And Coe even offered some travel money. It’s in the school’s best interest to make sure that she will enroll and stay.
And she has a little bit of time to pull the application if she has doubts. However, she had to get her guidance counselor to submit the agreement before break.
I’m learning. But not everyone has quite the same perspective as we do. And we have some limitations in our ability to explore.
I have gotten the most amazing feedback, and vivid descriptions, from so many different people. Parents have messaged me with details that I forward to my daughter and try to let her steer the ship a little more.
This is how Knox rose to the top for her. And then St. Olaf. I was a big fan of Earlham but my D dug a little deeper and isn’t keen with the Quaker vibe.
She starting to take ownership of this. She needed a push. But now she’s pretty good about getting what she needs.
Although, she’s getting a lot of positive feedback about Drake, she’s got some weird reasons for not wanting to go there. I wish she would visit, but I don’t think she will. I think she’s dimissed it.
Also, I’m not paying for it. At the end of the day this has to be her responsibility because this is her money. She has had impeccable judgment and been incredibly responsible for so long I cannot start doubting her now.
We discussed at length the repercussions of signing an ED agreement. And trust me she did her own research about how to get out of one.
It’s much easier for her to get out of one than others.
And I expect some more decisions before January 8 for sure. I will let her take all of that in, because she’s apparently digging in when I’m not watching and I don’t need to have her in my view every second of every day.
I have advised her not to dismiss anything yet. For each yes she gets I’d like her to do some research before she absolutely crosses it off her list. Colleges.startclass.com
Chembiodad shared the stat on Knox’s racial diversity, so I won’t say much more. Yes, Knox is absolutely committed to racial diversity. When I was a student twenty years ago, it was less diverse.
Of course, diversity is more than just a buzzword or another way to say “race.” Diversity also includes geographic diversity, socioeconomic diversity, and diversity of educational background (first generation college student). Most Knox students hail from the midwest, with around half coming from IL, but there’s a sizable international population (14%), and students come from 48 out of 50 states.
This very much matches my memory of the place. I knew plenty of suburbanites from Chicagoland, like me, but my closest friends were from downstate, including one guy (we still sometimes chat on Facebook) who grew up in a town of 200. My roommate senior year was from California, and other suitemates (Knox’s dorms are mostly suites, sort of like ten-person apartments, with five double rooms fanned out around a large common living area)…other suitemates/friends/good acquaintances came from TX, WI, CO, MA, WY. I also had international friends from Spain, Turkey, Japan, and the Netherlands.
Oh, and as someone else mentioned, yes, absolutely celebrate over the Coe and Drake acceptances. True, your daughter was a shoo-in for acceptances at both, but acceptances feel good, don’t they?. These schools may be somewhat overlooked because they are located in what is derisively referred to as “flyover country” (and, thus, don’t generate much discussion here on CC), but they are serious places of learning, with rich histories. Drake should be an interesting option. With just over three thousand undergrads, Drake is sort of like a largish LAC, though with two thousand graduate students added and course offerings that lean more toward the professional/vocational, it is very much a university more than a liberal arts college. Still, who knows, maybe your daughter will like that environment: a university that’s big enough to feel expansive yet small enough to be intimate.
Keep the updates coming as you learn more. Clearly, you have a lot of us interested, because your story is powerful and your daughter sounds like a hard-working young woman who has a great future ahead of her.
Thank you @Hapworth. I think the biggest part of her decision to sign the ED agreement was strategic access to her GC. She and I are both learning. If you’ll notice in my first post referencing it, I mentioned that she could withdraw it and go to the RD pool before 1/8. But she wouldn’t have access to her GC before 1/8.
I have encouraged her not to dismiss anything at this point. It’s too early. I was the one who initially helped her create a list of places to apply. She got hooked on Knox, and I think it’s a great place for her to be. I would be thrilled with that decision. However, St. Olaf also offers many things that Knox cannot offer (except Japanese).
Now that she is finished with finals, awaiting ACT scores, she can really take things in over the next few weeks. On her own. I’m still thinking maybe if her scores are really good we should try a couple other 100 percent demonstrated need schools. I don’t know how she feels about that because she feels like she’s got some really good options that she’s happy with. Part of this process is her autonomy.
She’s a smart girl, very smart. She’s figuring it out. For two people who knew nothing in November, we are catching on while also trying to maintain authenticity and integrity.
Those little tidbits or amazing descriptions or advice that someone messages me with, I forward those messages to her from my inbox. And she is paying attention.
She has been lucky and blessed to have some great acceptances from schools that I didn’t even know about but the wonderful community here directed me to. I then directed her to them. She has to take the ball. You have to remember she’s paying for this. I am not.
She’s gone through the weekend. I just sent her an email reminding her that she got accepted to some amazing schools, reminding her how proud I was of her for her successful semester (it was an accomplishment), and asking her to really reflect on how great her acceptance letters were and and the reputation of the schools before quickly dismissing them. Drawing the parallel of how easily she could’ve been dismissed.
She will take that to heart. She’s 17 I have to give her a minute, and offer her grace, and trust her judgment. Just like I have to offer myself grace, take a minute, reflect. A month ago all of this was brand new to us. We hadn’t even heard of many of these schools.
I don’t know what I would’ve done without everyone here. We may have been naïve, we didn’t have the knowledgebase, but we are not stupid.
I hope that nobody stops chiming in. Because we value the information, it’s been priceless. I just needed to get that rant in for a second.
Lack of knowledge doesn’t mean we don’t have the ability to process new knowledge quickly. Learn to adapt, learn to be savvy.
Again, I still need everyone please don’t go away.
A little over 24 hours ago we didn’t have any definitive choices now we have several. She is working through it and this is a whole new ( less than 24 hours old ) experience.
On a sidenote, you guys don’t know my daughter but she’s very serious. When she came home from school, after opening Drake, she was packing her bag, and I saw her Twerk. I have never seen her Twerk in my life. She’s very reserved. She deserved that moment and it was adorable.
This is all brand new, and we do realize how amazing this is. No choices to several? We don’t even know what that looks like over the past several years. We haven’t had choices about almost anything. She gets to Twerk.
She has not given herself this choice by applying ED to St. Olaf. Knox could come in with a BETTER FA package, and she really can’t take it if the St. O. package is sufficient. To me it sounds like she wants to game the ED option, and still keep her other choices open. It is dishonest to think she can still play around the edges about choir, Japanese, etc – ED is binding. It is NOT easier for her to get out of it than others just because you are a low income family – she is under the same rules everyone else is under.
Just FYI, she does not need to go through her GC to get out of the ED pool before 1/8. She can just contact the school and asked to be switched to the RD pool. But just fair warning – no school likes to feel like a student is gaming them. ED means the school is her top choice, and she will attend if accepted. You can’t turn them down, then go off to somewhere else that has an equivalent cost. She picked them to dance with by signing the ED agreement.
I don’t know that, St. Olaf NPC and FA Office has her borrowing a max of 5500 a year and bringing 288 out of pocket. That’s as close to full need as you get.
We’re not being dishonest, she’s not being this honest she was fully aware that she had time to pull out of the agreement because the application isn’t due until the eighth. Her guidance counselor just wasn’t available after today.
And if you think her enthusiasm for St. Olaf is disingenuous, you’re mistaken.
She is one of the most ethical people I’ve ever met. She wouldn’t even accept the scholarships at her state school until she knew for sure she would attend. BTW she is officially declining them instead of leaving them to linger.
Why is it okay for others to be strategic but not for her? She needed her guidance counselor to submit the ED agreement. He won’t be available. Now she has some time. And give her a minute she hasn’t even had 24 hours to take all of this in and in no way shape or form does she know that she would even be accepted. You can’t even really compare Knox to St. Olaf. Apples to oranges in my opinion.
She can call admissions and have it withdrawn but she couldn’t submit it without her guidance counselor. It’s that simple.
And I don’t have a financial package from Knox for her to compare. I believe they’re going to be quite generous with their offer, that being said we won’t know the full picture until January. I suspect that she’ll have to borrow a little more than $5500 a year, simply because they don’t have the endowment money.
She loves a lot of things about St. Olaf, she loves many things at Knox.
How is that unethical or disingenuous? I think she’s doing a great job figuring this out. I don’t see this as gaming the system anyway. If you go back and read my first post about this one of the first things I said was that she could withdraw her application before the eighth. She couldn’t submit it later than today without her guidance counselor. She also knew that if they came back with more money than she could reasonably feel,like SHE can afford, she can get out of the ED agreement if offered admission.
I do believe if her financial package comes back leaving her to only borrow $5500 a year, decision made.
I don’t want to speak for her but in my mind that would be a decision made. No matter how awesome the other schools were. IF that’s what she would get at SO and it meets so many of her requirements, not a tough choice.
With or without Japanese.
Edited to add: We are talking about looking at the options at each school she is accepted to over break NOT after 1/8.
I don’t think that’s gaming the system or dishonest.
I’m a little offended that you do.
@intparent Just out of curiosity how much do you think a 17 year old without a job or degree can afford to borrow per year? Just who exactly makes that kind of determination? I think 5500 is a very reasonable number. I think 10,000 to 15,000 is a little bit too much. We discussed that might be a reality. But how can you even expect a 17-year-old child to know exactly what they can afford. I don’t know what you don’t understand about it’s her borrowing the money not me. I didn’t even qualify for a parent loan.
@Grinnellhopeful - Visiting an empty campus is not going to be too informative. My D felt that the only thing that helped her see whether or not a school was a good fit was having an opportunity to sit in on classes and spend time in the dorms with students. Beyond that, you’re just looking at a bunch of buildings.
And remember, were you to back out of an ED2 acceptance, you would be doing so without knowing whether or not she has gotten into any other schools beyond those that you are aware of now. If it turns out she ends up with a really good ACT score, she would never know what other schools she might have been accepted to with the higher score. Also, you should know that colleges don’t like when students and GCs play fast and loose with ED rules. If they are meeting your full need and you back out, they won’t be amused and will potentially hold it against her high school, the GC, and future applicants.
And yes, it’s great that you are letter her steer this ship, as well she should, but at the end of the day she is a 17 year old that gets “hooked on” schools and isn’t necessarily always able to see the forest for the trees.
One more thing…I’ll quote directly from the ED agreement that we discussed at length before signing. “While pursuing admission under an Early Decision plan, Students May apply to other institutions but may only have one Early Decision application pending at any time. Should a student who applies for financial aid not be offered an award that makes attendance possible, the student may decline the offer of admission and be released from the Early Decision commitment. The institution must notify the applicant within a reasonable and clearly stated period of time after the Early Decision deadline. Usually a non refundable deposit must be made well in advance of May1. The institution will respond to an application for financial aid at or near the time of an offer of admission…
If you are an Early Decision canidate and are seeking financial aid, you need not withdraw other applications until you have received notification about financial aid from the admitting Early Decision institution.
We also have to factor in how easily she can get home. That is part of her ability to attend. I’m. It sure how often St, Olaf allots for travel home in the COA? But she can get on a direct amtrack for 100 bucks round trip from Knox to our home. She would be home in 4 hours.
I don’t see where we are breaking any rules or being disingenuous. Please show me where we are.