Looking for a great fit LAC

I recommend visiting any school you apply ED to make sure it is a good fit.

St. Olaf was at the top of D1’s list and wanted to apply ED1. We had really high expectations for the school and visited this fall. We were really pleased with the visit, and our daughter loved the school in every way. This gave us the confidence to apply ED1 and she was accepted last week! Thankfully, the net price was what we were expecting from the NPC.

Of course, one advantage of being accepted ED is getting the stress of the college acceptance process behind you. Instead of stressing about applications, she is excited about attending St. Olaf next fall.

@Grinnellhopeful , you mentioned earlier that your daughter is interested in Japanese, but that you didn’t think it was offered at St. Olaf – actually, students at SO are able to study, and even major in Japanese: https://wp.stolaf.edu/japanese/

They can also study abroad in Japan and have the option of participating in Asian Conversations, a cross-disciplinary program similar to the Great Conversations program.

Good luck to your daughter – echoing what @Hapworth said above, hang in there! Its admirable how much you and your daughter have learned about this process over the last few weeks~

@Grinnellhopeful My D is home from the holidays from St Olaf. I had a stream of consciousness conversation with her about St Olaf. Hopefully some of it will be useful if she gets in and wants the perspective of a current student. I basically just asked D questions and wrote down what she said more or less verbatim.

First things that come to mind when you think ‘Olaf’. Super friendly. That’s a thing. Big time. It is like living in musical; people singing in halls ways and common areas all the time even in upperclassman dorms. The school is able to put on yearly opera with cast of 40 and proper opera voices. Another thing is the school has high academic standards without being cut-throat. Very much community, ‘we are all in this together’. [D is particularly impressed with this]

Choir kids. People in choirs are really close to their choir. Travel a lot. Tour abroad. Find out if those costs would be covered. Probably yes. St. Olaf seems to take ‘full-need’ seriously. If you are a singer and on a choir, you will have an immediate community of like-minded peers. They fly you in (March?) to audition for Ole Choir if you are on scholarship. But you can also audition for Manito Choir and then later get into Ole Choir (2nd yr).

What is Math dept like? [not sure this applies but it’s what D knows] It is huge. 3rd largest major. (But CS is tiny). Some great female math profs. Really good overall. You won’t ever be only woman in class. Dept specific study abroad programs. Also have strong math education program and grads go straight into teaching jobs. Math talks every other week. Multiple science talks every other week. Big community events (picnics, bbqs). In major about 50/50 male/female. Good number of Indian students. Multiple math and physics clubs.

Party scene: There is a party scene if you want to be part of that, but mainly off-campus so you have to seek it out. In D’s frosh dorm, about 1/2 partied on Friday and 1/2 stayed in and watched movies or played games.

Definitely ‘wholesome’ nerdiness. Everyone knows the dorky fight song. A bunch of friends dressed up in costume to go to the Star Wars movies. The conductor of Ole choir dressed up as Santa and hung in library so you could get your picture with him. No vibe at all of ‘hipster’ or cosmopolitan nerds. More ‘we are dorks and we love it’. Think midwestern nerds.

St Olaf has reputation for being polished and better dressed, but it is ‘nice flannel’ kind of better dressed. Scarves and sweaters. However there are many choirs so you do see people racing off to performances in tails or nice dresses on a regular basis.

Economic diversity. Many of D’s friends are lower middle class and on financial aid. Many people come from small towns (and Chicago and Twin Cities). Geographic diversity. Most are from midwest. Good number of international students. Few from east and west coasts. Not so many from south. It is kind of cold in MN…

Politics: definitely liberal school.

Religion: That’s a thing. You don’t have to be religious and D have never gotten the sense that anyone has thought she should become Christian. But you will have friends who are religious and go to church regularly. You will have conversations about religion and overhear regularly conversations about faith/god.

Study Abroad. Really Huge thing. All of D’s friends all will study abroad at some point. Tons of scholarships available to do that. Many of her friends need full-ride to do study abroad and will get scholarships to do that. Most of the study abroad interims are with an Olaf professor so really easy to fit in schedule and class fits with your required GEs (general reqs) and reqs for major. Study abroad semesters: There’s ‘global semester’ led by Olaf profs and you travel all over world and do classes on each continent. There are also department specific study abroad semester programs. Tons of connections with other universities and they have a system for those credits to become Olaf credits.

What’s campus like on breaks: Fall break (4 days). Still lots of people on campus. Cafeteria is open. Thanksgiving. Some people stay on campus (international esp). Winter break (10-14 days). International students stay. Note winter break is short. Only like 10-14 days unlike some schools that have 4 weeks. Interim break (1 week). Fair number on campus. D says it’s really nice being on campus during breaks. Nice and relaxing without the MN folks who go home. You stay in and watch movies and play board games with your friends.

On weekends: People do not tend to leave (go home). Parties happen mostly off campus. As a freshman, the people who lived nearby tended to go home during the first month. But after that, that doesn’t happen very often. Going home on the weekend is not a ‘thing’.

School is the ‘community on the hill’ and in their Olaf bubble. Plays, student productions, performances, movies on campus, lots to do. School has many dorky traditions that Carleton makes fun of.

Northfield. Cute town. Not tons to do, but most people socialize on campus or at theme or sports houses off-campus. Parties are held at sports houses off campus often (technically not supposed to have alcohol D thinks, but they do).

Xmas fest. This is a huge thing. 1/3 of the campus is involved so a 1/3 of your friends are rehearsing multiple hours every night in the lead up. Campus gets invaded by alumni and parents in Norwegian sweaters. Campus is packed. The campus is beautifully decorated for xmas. It’s really beautiful. For a week, the cafeteria serves Norwegian food. Meatballs, yum! Lutefisk, ug! They have other food too.

Food. Food is really good and abundant on campus. There are different meal plans. D is on a plan with 2 meals a day at cafeteria and $200 for semester for cafe (coffee shop stuff, tea, coffee, baked goods, sandwiches, soups).

Conversations: D did Great Con. 2 years but plenty of people only do one-year. It gives you an immediate community. These are all nerdy people who like to read a lot and talk about what they read. You will definitely come out being able to write well. D says the Science Con would have been more closer to D’s interest BUT she really liked being in a Con freshman year so she immediately had a community of likeminded peers. If you are Humanities major, you might want to do Great Con year 1 and then switch to Science Con for year 2. American Con is smaller and only 2 semesters year 2. Chem-Bio Con is smaller and year 2; it’s a lot of work but those in love it. The reputation of ‘Great Con’ students are known as being intense and the program has a reputation of being hard. Everyone lives together in the same 2 dorms but you only have classes with those in your dorm. So immediate community (of intense nerdy-humanities types). Prob more humanities (philosophy, classics, English) majors but many STEM majors too and for STEM majors it fills most of your humanities GEs.

Top downsides: Small town and you can feel a little trapped. But now she has friends with cars so better. It’s cold. If you can’t handle cold, not the place to come to. CS is not a fun place for girls (that’s not an Olaf specific issue however), but current female CS students are agitating to improve that. Again, not Olaf specific; this is a big CS problem. On flip side, big camaraderie among the CS women. Note, math dept is very different. Many female profs and 50/50 ratio among majors. There isn’t really a sports scene. Don’t come here for the sports culture. Sometimes it feels small. D loves it but thinks at the end of 4 years, she’ll def be ready to go to a big school for grad school. She’s glad she didn’t pick an even smaller school. If you don’t like someone, you won’t be able to really avoid running into them. Did I mention it’s cold in winter?

It looks like Earlham is not under consideration at this point for @Grinnellhopeful’s daughter - but this thread has been so active (and informative), I was wondering if anyone has recent impressions of Earlham to share?

I started a thread on this: http://talk.qa.collegeconfidential.com/earlham-college/2042952-impressions-of-earlham-p1.html?new=1

Thank you!

Somewhere above, diversity was mentioned. If it is in the realm of demographics:

St. Olaf: 15% Pell, 73% W, 6% L, 6% A, 2% B
Knox: 33% Pell, 49% W, 14% L, 8% B, 6% A
Coe: 31% Pell, 70% W, 9% L, 6% B, 2% A

https://nces.ed.gov/collegenavigator/?q=olaf&id=174844
https://nces.ed.gov/collegenavigator/?q=knox&id=146427
https://nces.ed.gov/collegenavigator/?q=coe&id=153144

@parentmother I still LOVE Earlham and I am hoping for a yes letter with the fly in they mentioned.

@liska21 that is one of the most superb vibe descriptions of a college I have seen on CC…and straight from a student’s mouth! Could you copy that on CCs CollegeVibe section as a school report? I think it could help a lot of people. I have often felt frustrated at how few descriptive, thorough reports there are of colleges in that section, as compared to the wealth of information in the forums (but you have to dig a lot to find the info embedded within forum threads.)

I chose to stay away for a few days. Yesterday my D was accepted to Beloit. today her acceptance to Knox came (finally!), along with another package full of goodies. Pens, pins, notebook, lanyard, socks. My D was so very happy, over the moon happy.

The merit aid was VERY good but not even close to full need. Although, I know from my conversation and last email from the AO that there will be more to come in January.

I did clarify with my D and got the answer I thought I would get…St. Olaf and Knox are absolutely her top choices and at this point (sight unseen) equal in her mind.

If she doesn’t get into SO she won’t be devastated because she has Knox, and she thinks Knox will be a happy place for her. I also feel quite content with either. I’m still hoping to hear from Earlham and take advantage of their fly in.

Agreed @liska21 your post was perfect!! This is exactly the kind of information my D and I look for. We’ve been so lucky to get input like this about both Knox and SO.

I’m so grateful to have eyes and ears and beautifully descriptive writing to guide us in this journey. As @Midwestmomofboys pointed out, my D choices (initially driven by me but now her) are not all over the place. She has focused in on schools that have very similar qualities.

I think she’s done a great job.

So, the only application we have left to hear from is SO, and that is a month away.

My D doesn’t seem to be feeling it when I mention submitting other applications.

Earlham is one of the most diverse colleges in the U.S.
29% Pell
49% white
11% Black
7% Latino
6% Asian
23% int’l

My D had a similar need for FinAid as OP’s D. She applied EA wherever it was offered. Even though she got her admission results and merit awards early, she did not receive full FinAid packages until March. The FinAid award letters/emails I could find easily were dated March 4 and March 16, both places she applied EA.

She did not want to apply anywhere ED as her favorite changed from time to time, and I would have discouraged her because of our financial need, as well as I personally think a kid should visit before going ED. The college my D attends was her 2nd choice but gradually moved up the list, the more she learned about it. In the end it was tied for first place.

She ended up with these 2 neck in neck front runner favorites. In her case she was denied at one of them and was actually sort of glad that the decision was made for her, though of course a little disappointed. The favorite that accepted her gave her a great FinAid package even though they are technically not a meet-full-need college. She received a very similar package from another college, also not a full need school, but she was very happy to attend her front runner choice.

We visited a handful of colleges when we could while traveling for another reason and we made one special college visit trip (3 colleges a train ride & drive away). Of her final list, she had visited only one. She is now attending a college she never visited before the first day of freshman year. However, for us there are some extenuating circumstances:
–she attended an out of state boarding high school
–she is extremely adaptable and has a very happy personality
–she and I both did extensive research on every college on her list (and many others)
–we visited a selection of colleges that allowed us to fine tune her needs and wants
–she interviewed for every college, attended several college fairs, and met with college representatives that came to her school

So perhaps this will provide some food for thought.

@homerdog my D and I consider $5500 a year in loans to her to meet full need. That’s a very reasonable amount of debt to work with.

To second what @Hapworth said…being locked into admission at SO is not a tragic thing. It’s an amazing gift. She will adapt because it DOES check all the boxes. But if she doesn’t get in, she has Knox under her belt now.

Also, SO is fully aware another set of scores is coming from ACT, they’ve had several conversations with both of us. SO was actively engaging her months ago, before she EVER experssed interest, let alone an application. I honestly have no idea how she got on their radar? Her application was not put in blindly, it was put in after much discussion with admissions and financial aid.

It’s also worth noting, they said they would be reaching out to ACT for her scores (I didn’t know they could do that) if we hadn’t received them before the deadline.

And we haven’t received them…

Her letters of recommendation are outstanding, I believe, from what I’ve been told by another AO from another school. I think her essay must be pretty good, she gets complimented often from AO that have read it. Her new GPA is now 4.1 ( it showed up on her school website yesterday), she’s authentically herself in every part of her application. I believe that shines through.

And she got admitted to her second choice, there isn’t a bad outcome in any way shape or form. Whether it be Knox or SO.

She is happy. She will adjust at either of those schools and she will flourish.

She has overcome some pretty harsh things while in H.S… She did it with grace, perseverance, determination and a smile.

Being “stuck” at a school that can give her the moon? That’s hitting the jackpot in our world.

It certainly wouldn’t be like being sentenced to prison. Our perspective may be slightly different than others?
And if two people in admissions are already advocating for her and asked her to apply ED2, she felt like she should.

I just don’t really see a terrible outcome here. If she doesn’t get into Knox
And Beloit, Coe, Drake. Just waiting to hear from Earlham

@dadof2d Congratulations!! The NPC cost at SO matched with your actual offer?
That’s encouraging news!
Our NPC had 5500 in Federal loans, some work study, $288 a year out of pocket. For us that feels as close to full need as you can get!

Thank you for sharing that information that’s very reassuring.

Grinnellhopeful,

Congrats on the official acceptance offer at Knox! Yes, any merit aid offered, such as, say, the Lincoln scholarship, is only part of the financial aid package, which will come later. Also keep in mind that all Lincoln scholarship recipients (I don’t know which merit award your daughter received, and you certainly do not have to state so in a public forum!) are automatically considered for the Presidential scholarship, which covers full tuition, but those decisions are made in March. Only five incoming students receive this highest merit award, and these five students are probably tippy-top applicants.

Also, let’s say that when the FA offers for both schools come in, St. Olaf’s is better. You can absolutely contact Knox and explain to them that Knox is your daughter’s number-one choice (doesn’t have to be true!) but that she’s also very excited to attend St. Olaf (which may very well be true). Knox will then have to decide whether they want to match SO’s offer. Maybe they will, maybe not. This is why students apply to so many schools. One applicant might receive an amazing FA package from Knox, while another is highly disappointed but is happy that a rival, such as Beloit, came through with a terrific offer. But, yes, you can try to play one school off another. Again, there’s no guarantee that it will work, but there are plenty of cases of people’s stories here on CC where a parent has kindly pitched for more money and the institution “found” a few thousand more dollars. It depends on how badly a school wants your daughter (she might fit a very important role in the college’s overall goals to create a diverse class), and it depends on school’s immediate financial aid budget (read: how much FA they have awarded out already to other applicants).

Finally, congrats also on Beloit. I think I mentioned in an earlier post how I was accepted to Beloit in addition to Knox. Don’t rule out Beloit. It’s a terrific school and has a very pretty New England-style campus (it was founded by northeasterners who wanted to create a Yale-type college in border town Beloit, WI).

@Hapworth If this young lady gets accepted ED2 to St Olaf with a better aid package than Knox, she absolutely cannot use that to negotiate for more $ at Knox. She would be committed to St Olaf.

@Hapworth - No, because OP applied ED, she cannot legally – or morally – play one school off the other (well, she can try, but it is against the rules). If Knox respects the ED rules (which they probably do) they could contact St. Olaf and tell them that OP is “pitching” their ED offer and St. Olaf could (and, by all rights, should) rescind their offer. If OP wants to compare FA and/or merit aid offers, she has to withdraw from ED2. It’s that simple.

I know someone who applied ED 2 to a school and was accepted. The student did not immediately withdraw her other applications and one of the schools contacted the student and said that if she didn’t withdraw her application, they would contact the other school and let them know that she was not respecting the ED rules.

Um, I have a white child receiving Pell funds. Also have an Asian kid receiving Pell funds.

My white daughter was very concerned with diversity, or the lack of it, when looking at schools. She thought Wyoming was much too white, and she’s right it is, but she’s found the lack of diversity is not an issue. There are athletes who are black (and you’re not going to get that at St. Olaf’s, and there are a lot of Hispanic students, some Native Americans, and a lot of foreign students whose numbers aren’t reflected in the reported diversity numbers. There is a lot of economic diversity, religious diversity, and political diversity. She really doesn’t feel like it’s a white campus any longer.

My Asian daughter wanted race not to matter. Her school has the most international students in the country (30%) and they are also a diverse group with student from Europe, Middle East, South America, and Asia. But that doesn’t mean they are one big melting pot and all hang out together. She isn’t friends with the Asian students because she doesn’t speak Chinese. There is a lot of diversity in the classroom, when working on projects, but once class is over everyone goes back to their groups. My daughter’s group is her team, on which she is the only minority. Her sorority is more diverse.

Interesting about diversity. I noticed at the few schools we’ve toured that the different races seem to be hanging out/ walking/ sitting with those of a similar race. I noticed that at each school. I would think that the ideal school for someone looking for diversity is one where people don’t just stick with those of the same race or socioeconomic status, etc. Something to look for when you see these schools.

@Hapworth Thank you for the clarification regarding merit aid. I know that they have not factored in need-based aid yet. She did qualify for two separate scholarships I don’t know how that will flesh out in Jan (AO mentioned Jan)
I do hope that she visits Beloit, and Coe. I feel strongly that Earlham will be in the picture and they already mentioned a fly in.

Because I don’t know if she will get accepted to St. Olaf. I told her she should visit any school that was willing to pay for her visit. It will be a great experience for her. And she will be following the advice of everyone here.

Also it is worth noting that she is allowed to pursue scholarships and applications during this whole process with ED. She has to stop once she has been admitted AND her FA package has been received, if admitted.

But she doesn’t have to stop pursuing more money at the colleges she has been accepted to until she has a financial aid package from St. Olaf and that comes after, I don’t know if it’s a few weeks or a few months.

I absolutely appreciate your input @Hapworth It sounds like you and my daughter have some schools in common.

Perhaps @Grinnellhopeful meant that fewer Pell grant students means less socioeconomic diversity at many of these small private LACs that are mostly populated by non-Pell-grant students?

Socioeconomic diversity is less visible at first glance than racial/ethnic diversity, which tends to be more visible at first glance (though not all nuances are). Level of integration/segregation is also less visible at first glance with socioeconomic diversity than with racial/ethnic diversity.

The FA package for ED accepted students comes quickly, often with a few days of acceptance – you only have a couple weeks to determine if the offer is good and accept or decline.