Wishing you and your daughter all the best with the process–your dedication, care, and thoroughness are amazing. I have not read every entry on this thread, but I just wanted you to know that I went to Grinnell, and although I received an incredible education there, that same education can be found at so many other places–college is really what you make it, and I know your daughter will take full advantage of the opportunities at any college. My son is currently at Luther College in Iowa. They have rolling admissions, so it is not too late to apply if you are still looking for options. They have great financial aid and merit scholarships, and my son has absolutely loved his professors. I would say the students are not as “quirky” or intense as at Grinnell, but they are kind and down-to-earth. Also, from what my son says, many students come from rural areas which gives him, a Chicago suburban native, a totally different perspective on life. I think this is an essential experience in this time when the country is so divided. Luther is also a great school for those who are serious about participating in music, and they also have a new science center. It took my son a year to get settled in, but I think that would have happened wherever he went. For us, it turned out to be much more affordable than St. Olaf, but I think this really depends on so many factors that I can’t predict for you. You could visit both St. Olaf and Luther on the same road trip (I think they are only about 2 hours apart). Hang in there–there are so many amazing opportunities out there, and more than one “perfect” or “near perfect” college for every student.
They have been so very kind. The director of admissions has offered to call her a few times to discuss the possibility of a transfer after her first semester or year at another school.
We decided together that was not the path that was best for my D. It’s not who she is to go into something not fully committed. I think it’s better for her to find a place that fits and settle in for the long-haul.
They have left that offer open if my daughter changes her mind about speaking to the director of admissions or transfer options later but again, neither myself or my D think that is in her best interest. They told us that they spent significant amount of time on her application. They couldn’t tell me specifically why she was rejected instead of deferred, but that’s okay.
They clearly think highly of her and continued to offer encouragement and support. If nothing else, it made me feel less crazy about what we were hearing from admissions prior to the rejection.
Her admission officer at Grinnell did recommend my D apply at SO, and gave some positive feedback about the other places we were considering applying while continuing to reiterate the offer of the personal call from the director.
They were very respectful of whatever we chose to do.
I do think they care very much about the students that apply.
And I will continue to believe this all happened for a reason. She will ultimately land wherever she is meant to be.
@ZZdecision2016 I wish I could like your post 50 times over. Luther was a school I had actually in the last 48 hours started some preliminary research into. I’m really glad that your son found a great fit. I believe the schools on our list of acceptances are all great schools and could all be great fits. You’re so right about there not just being one. Wow, we’ve come a long way from the beginning of December when we only had one application in.
Yes my D is quirky but she’s also quite straight laced for lack of a better word. We are learning so much about her and this process. Thank you for the kind words.
@Grinnellhopeful I understand why you and your daughter would want to put Grinnel behind you and fully commit to whichever school she attends in the fall, but it seems transfer is an option. As you know to well, things don’t always go as planned.
One thing I loved about the Macalester acceptance letter is that they hold your admission for a year so if you attend a different school and things don’t work out, you don’t have to apply for transfer you just call the admissions office.
Quirky and straight laced would be exactly how I describe my Grinnellian. Please make Grinnel aware of the new ACT score. I too don’t understand why they didn’t just defer her. Perhaps, it was a blessing because the denial led to all of these other great options.
i haven’t submitted all of my applications yet! i submitted rochester tonight, and i’ll be submitting the rest super soon. if your daughter does decide to apply to kenyon, try to sign up for an interview! (i believe the deadline is january 18th.) i know kenyon tends to appreciate demonstrated interest, so i figured i would mention it! 
(kenyon DOES offer merit scholarships, so you never know!)
@Mom24boys I think the admissions team in their infinite wisdom and years of choosing an incoming freshman class saw something that made them think they weren’t the best fit, but also saw the amazing things about her?
I really don’t know, I can only speculate. And they left that offer open-ended. It wasn’t by any means a flat out promise that she could transfer either, but I shared the emails with people who know this process better than myself and those people found it highly unusual.
I agree that it was probably a blessing and am grateful for choices and grateful that my D has learned so much about herself and what she wants and needs in a school.
We certainly didn’t burn any bridges with them and they didn’t burn any with us. When I said way back when that Grinnell was super receptive, and helpful, engaging, etc I still stand by those comments today and am so thrilled for the kids that will be in the class of 2022.
We will share the scores and 7th semester grades at some point. I believe in my heart of hearts the my D’s AO really connected with her and would like to know where she lands. And we have a debt of gratitude for her continued input and encouragement.
It’s a great school. It just apparently wasn’t the school for my D. And she’s okay with it. We worked through it the few hours before she took her ACT the 2nd time (these scores). the poor girl was so sick physically, she had the flu or something and heartbroken because everyone including her GC felt like she was in at Grinnell. She found out about the rejection less than 12 hours before she took the ACT. I’m giving her some huge kudos for her score under the circumstances. Burning up with a fever and devastated by Grinnell.
When I say my D perseveres and powers through, I mean it.
I’m so lucky to be her mom.
If St. Olaf doesn’t work out, sure, applying to Oberlin, Mac and Kenyon would be fine. That 30 is in range and she might be, oh, a high match at them. Maaaaybe a match. Anyway she’d have a shot.
An old school chum of mine went to St. Olaf and loved it. If she gets into St. Olaf and the aid package is affordable, I’d take it happily and forget the rest – not because you’re supposed to, but because you see the value and want to. It’s a very good school and at that (or a similar) price, a steal.
If it doesn’t work out, there’re plenty of other fish in the sea and many quality nearby alternatives have been mentioned.
If you haven’t ruled out Carleton and Grinnell, that 30 might give her a shot at those behemoths too, something to keep in mind in the fairly unlikely event that SO says no.
OP,
Congrats on your daughter’s new score of 30. People here on CC, with so much focus on Ivies, do not realize (or forget) that a score of 30 puts you in the top 5-7% of all test takers. A 26 puts one in the top 15%. Only in the world of CC is a score under 30 terrible, while a score of 30 is “average.” A 30 is fantastic!
I want to echo what an earlier poster said: FA decisions are not decisions until they are truly final. To remind you, I’m the Knox alum, though I’m rooting for St. Olaf at this point because they do promise to meet full need and have a healthy endowment to back up that promise.
That said, do politely let Knox and other schools know about your offers. If your daughter is accepted at St. Olaf, you can try to, ahem, encourage Knox (or Beloit, or Coe, or other schools where you still haven’t applied) to sweeten the deal. Depending on several factors (how badly the school wants your daughter, how much money they still have in the financial aid budget), schools may find more money. Also, keep in mind that Knox awards five incoming students with presidential scholarships, and these cover full tuition. Obviously, these will probably go to tippy-top students that were ticketed for Carleton, Oberlin, Northwestern, maybe even Ivies, but those awards do not get announced until March. Any student awarded a Lincoln scholarship is automatically considered for one of the five presidential scholarships. Maybe with your daughter’s new ACT score she’ll be in the running?
If Knox puts together a package–presidential scholarship or no–that leaves a gap, cross Knox off your list! I love my alma mater, but there are many fine schools in this country.
Finally, I’m surprised that your daughter isn’t jazzed about Beloit. It has a very pretty New England-style campus, and it many ways it’s similar to Knox: same student population size, nearly identical majors offered, nearly identical endowments. The perception is that Beloit is a bit more hippie and liberal-leaning, while Knox is more mainstream.
Now that your daughter has very competitive ACT score, she can consider a whole bunch of schools. If you’re already looking at MN, Macalaster and even Carleton could be possibilities (Carleton would definitely be a reach, however). Someone mentioned Oberlin, and that’s a good choice, too. In fact, OH is filled with great LACs: I would look into Denison, College of Wooster, and Kenyon. I apologize if others have already mentioned these places; I haven’t yet caught up with all the new posts.
Again, congrats!
@Hapworth Thank you, I always appreciate your posts. As you know my D loves Knox, too. I spoke to her AO at Knox today and the other schools she been accepted to. Her AO at Knox is going to speak to the dean about my D, she knows what we can and cannot afford. She has always been very much in my D’s corner, and is digging deeper for more money since they were going to send out more finalized FA packages this week or next week? There are still institutional grants they can apply as well. Beloit has offered her their very top scholarship, Earlham (shhhh I know verbally but don’t have it in ink) is offering their top merit aid, plus institutional grants, Coe will dig deeper. Yes, if she gets into St. Olaf it’s a done deal. Their package will meet 100% of demonstrated need and she will be very happy there, and she went ED.
But despite the fact that others are accusing me of gaming the system She is allowed per the ED agreement to pursue other schools and pursue the best FA packages at those schools. She can do that until such time that she is accepted and also presented with SO FA package. It would be foolish of us not to try to get as much as possible at the other schools, because she is already accepted and we don’t know for sure SO will give us a yes.
Priority deadlines for the best financial aid packages tend to fall around 15 January so her scores along with her 7th semesters grades came in the nick of time.
Phew it was in a funk and huge panic yesterday…
She did submit for Kenyon tonight and requested an interview, it does appear her scores make her a solid candidate.
But I still say she is totally thrilled with three of acceptances and if the FA packages are good one of those three will be where she ultimately ends up if SO is a no.
I don’t know how she will fare in RD at Kenyon amoung what could be as many as 6000 plus applicants, but it didn’t hurt to throw her hat in the ring for another 100% demonstrated need school.
She is feeling pretty grateful tonight. Although nwe still don’t know for sure where she will ultimately attend.
I think we are getting much closer to a decision. SO decision should be here by 2/1, in the meantime we just plug away and try to get a little more at the others to help close the gap, in case she doesn’t get into SO.
Thank you for recognizing her ACT score. I think it’s pretty amazing considering she had zero professional test prep, she didn’t even have a prep book. It was just her spending time in the library where she reserved a room.
And the score jump does seem to change the situation at her current schools and open the door a little to other schools that meet need and will also be good fits.
I am extremely proud of her. What she accomplished she truly accomplished on her own. I do think that might be something that schools see when they look at her application.
Just please remember that if SO’s FA package is affordable, just not as affordable as some of the offers she’s already received, she has still committed to accepting it. IOW, you can’t go back to SO in hopes of a better offer. The school determines your need, and while you can hope your offer comes in as expected there is a possibility that you will be paying more at SO than you currently anticipate. Honestly, that’s why many of us urged caution about submitting an ED application.
That said, I’m rooting for your daughter to get a low-cost offer from SO. It sounds like she’s a great kid with a good head on her shoulders.
@Sue22 Thank you for the kind words. Our hope is that she is accepted at SO and their price matches the NPC. My D went into this ED agreement with acceptances from other schools she also likes in her arsenal.
She wouldn’t have signed it and or would have pulled it before the deadline of 1/8 if she didn’t want it.
Again, we are very direct and upfront. I told the AO and FA what we were looking for in price and how we were were counting on the NPC to be accurate. We had this discussion after the FA had the FASFA and CSS profile.
The conversation is honestly no different than the conversation I’ve had with the other schools. It’s one of the reasons we eliminated Drake so quickly. Despite the fact that Drake offered my D the best merit package they have available, they don’t have much in the way of institutional grants. It took a 10 min conversation to know it wasn’t going to work.
I don’t care what school it is if my D has to borrow 15-20000 a year, that is not affordable in anybody’s world.
Also, keep in mind the average student debt at graduation in another piece of the puzzle that goes into college rankings. Schools don’t want their students to carry 60,000 plus in loans at gradation.
As an example, purely hypothetical. If SO accepted her and their NPC was very different from the FA package the actually offer and her net price came out to 18,000 a year. That is absolutely not affordable.
The AO at Knox had a pretty in depth conversation with me yesterday about this very topic. We did some ball park numbers using the numbers she had already been awarded in merit aid and amount we know she will be given between the two federal grants she’s eligible for. There is a substantial gap and she would have to borrow $20,000 a year, worst case scenario, she and I did not know what number the institutional grant might be.
This is why she is going to the Dean with My D’s updated scores and 7th semester grades and new GPA. She is going to advocate for more merit aid before the institutional grant number comes back next week.
I told her that I was advising my D to keep her loans at less than 10,000 a year. Preferably less than 7,000 a year, ideally her loan amount each year should not exceed the $5500 the government limits most freshman to (although the federal loan program allows them to borrow more if the parent is denied a plus loan).
I can’t remember the max the student is allowed to borrow if the parent is declined the plus loan…I don’t think it’s more than 20,000. I’ll have to check.
Hopefully, you can see that I’m not trying to game the system, I’m trying to help my D lay the groundwork for the best FA packages at any school. I’m also trying to make sure she isn’t saddled with huge debt amounts as a young 2O something who intends to go to grad school.
If any school requires her to borrow 15,000-20,000 a year, she won’t be going.
I know it’s a lot to ask and I know she isn’t a National Merit Scholar. But I believe they are looking at what she can and will contribute to the campus community and trying to predict her success and how she will represent them as a grad.
I guess what I’m saying is that if SO requires her to borrow 15,000-20,000 a year in student loans, it isn’t affordable and I can say that and my D can break the ED agreement if that is the outcome. At some point we as a family and more importantly her as the borrower can say no way, I can’t afford to owe 60,000-80,000 at the age of 21 when I graduate and don’t have a job yet.
That is the perfect recipe for defaulting on student loans.
We are toying around with many unknowns. We are looking at the average salary for this somewhat obscure vision of what she wants to do for a living and the level of education needed to do it. Her undergrad loans are just part of the picture. She will need 6 more years of post grad work. This is all somewhat fluid because she is 17 she could get to college and decide she wants to be a choir director or teacher, who knows? She 17.
I personally really tried to push her to pharmaceutical research since she loves chemistry and wants that to be her focus along with anthropology or linguistics. She was absolutely sure she didn’t want to be a pharmacist and or a chemical engineer, or civil engineer. Any of those occupations would have guaranteed a job with strong earning potential right out of school and the ability to pay of 80,000 in loans.
But research is the one thing she is sure about. Some kind of research job. This will require a PHD
Anyway, I digress. My point is she is not going to break her ED agreement with SO if her net price is 18,000 a year and go to another school and borrow 18,000 a year. And nobody can make her agree to borrow 18,000 a year. Even if they say it’s affordable.
At some point she can say, I’m sorry that is not affordable for me and frankly it quite terrifying to me.
My D and I are trying to come up with a number that is reasonable. The whole reason she moved away from her state school initially was because she was looking at borrowing 15,000 a year.
I hope that makes sense.
SO doesn’t really differentiate merit aid from institutional aid, they kind of do but not like the other schools. I think their NPC is a little easier to read and understand.
In a few weeks we’ll begin learning to muddle through that process. I’m just laying the groundwork with the schools now before the packages are finalized. And I’m doing that by being very transparent and direct. It would be so easy to get to a campus like SO, fall in love and forget the price tag. You have to understand the difference in what her world looks like now and what her world will look like then. It will feel like she has gone on 4 year trip to an academic Disney World with an extension of credit. Enjoy your stay, you’ll be billed at the end.
She will have good food, instead of worrying if the ramen we had for dinner is going to fill her up, and do we have anything substantial for breakfast. A warm dorm room all the things other people might take for granted are going to be a shock for her when we have to worry about how to feed 3 people for a week with $100.
Different perspective.
How do I even help her understand this before she gets to any campus?
I’m trying my best.
3 hot meals a day certainly becomes enticing add an amazing education and music to the mix, it’s like winning the lottery and will blind her to the debt she is incurring.
So you are hitting the reality that schools that don’t meet need likely won’t be affordable. One more time – stop worrying about transportation. Put schools that meet need or come close to it on the list. Your kid can learn to take a plane and a SuperShuttle if she has to. A school that is $10K a year cheaper is worth paying $1000 for transit. You are leaving possible affordable options on the table and letting their deadlines go by while waiting for SO.
@intparent I’m listening…what schools did I leave off that she has a chance of admission? SO meets need, Kenyon meets need (applied last night after getting her scores). I’m talking about realistic options. I’m listening. Well I have to go to work but I’ll still be reading.
What about Bryn Mawr, all girls school outside Philadelphia and part of the Quaker Consortium so she could easily take classes at Haverford and less easily at Swarthmore and U Penn.
Full need school, deadline January 15 ACT Range 28-32 and near transportation.
@Grinnellhopeful D, is likely to get into St O. So if the financial aid is good enough, she will have to withdraw all the RD apps. With ED, you lose your negotiating ability with other schools. You either accept the St O offer and withdraw other apps, or you decline the St O offer and hope that an RD acceptance comes thru with better money, or you take one of the EA acceptances you have in hand. You can’t hang on to a St O ED2 offer and wait to compare RD packages.
I’ve always thought Bryn Mawr would be a great choice!
What @wisteria100 said is correct.
I, too, think that you should give serious thought to pulling out of the ED 2 with SO, especially in light of the higher ACT score. Tell them you were advised that you needed to compare FA offers, and that while you trust that they will do their best to make it affordable, you don’t want to close off other (possibly more) affordable options.
If you are ED, they know they have you over a barrel and that you’re committed (unless you’re willing to walk away and not look back).
The new ACT score will allow for more options at schools that meet full-need. You should NOT throw away your shot.
Also, I wonder if you might not see if Grinnell would reconsider her application in light of the new ACT score. Your original mistake was applying ED with low scores. Don’t make a second ED mistake.
I agree with @LoveTheBard - the new score will open up new options- I would withdraw the ED 2 application to SO.
Wow. If you’re expecting to only have $5500 in loans per year, I think that’s going to be hard. I just looked it up and there are only a dozen schools that meet full financial need with no loans. All of those schools are highly selective and not on your list. I’m really not trying to be a downer but most schools just don’t give free rides to kids with no loans. And those that do are a very hard admit. They give those scholarships to very high stats poor kids.
I’m with the clan that says you should pull the ED. With the 30, she will be accepted to SO reg decision and you’ll be able to compare and MAYBE negotiate a little. Remember, though, if you’re paying nothing, you don’t have much to bargain with except your daughter’s record and how much they want her.