$5500 is the standard federal loan amount for freshman. Pretty much all schools with a 30 ACT will require students to take out the full federal loans every year. I think the OP knows this. Add Dickinson, Bates, Mount Holyoke, Bryn Mawr, Scripps, and Franklin & Marshall if the NPCs look good and RD dates haven’t passed.
I would apply to Franklin & Marshall regular decision. The level of support there is amazing and they meet 100% of demonstrated need. Someone I know got a large grant package and only $4k a year in loans which is very minimal. The deadline is January 15.
Right. But how many schools only expect the $5500 loan plus maybe work study? I would think most full-need schools still have more loans above that to meet full need.
The person I know at F&M (I’ve been asked not to share details by a moderator for privacy reasons) received $58k in grants (including a pell grant), $4k in loans and $2k from an outside scholarship.The other schools to which he was accepted varied in the breakdown- one school offered him grants and $6k in loans/year and one offered him grants and $8k in loans/year. His local state U offered only the Pell grant and $16k a year in loans (including parent loans). So, it really varies for each school and it’s why he applied to quite a few schools- so the financial aid packages could be compared.
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I am not aware of any meet-full-need schools that offer more in loans than that, other than, in the past, a small Perkins loan (that loan program has ended) and the health professions loan specific to health majors at some schools.
Of course parents can and do borrow or cosign more but that’s usually to meet EFC, not because the school packaged it. Schools that don’t meet need often suggest more in loans, but again I am not aware of any meet-need school that would put in more than the $5500. Some put less, say only the subsidized part. And of course some don’t include loans at all.
If you google “colleges that meet full need without loans”, you only get twelve colleges. I assumed that all other colleges that meet full need would include some sort of loans above the $5500. When I was in college, we had parent-student loans directly from the university in addition to my $5500 student loans per year. I assumed that colleges not on the list of twelve would probably offer additional loans instead of all grants - otherwise they would be on the list of schools that meet full need without loans. I apologize if that somehow incorrect.
Playing devil’s advocate, but do you think St. Olaf would not accept her D if she pulled the ED application thinking she wasn’t that interested? I’m not sure how that works.
I just looked at a list of meets full need schools and you might want to check out Case Western Reserve in OH. It’s strong in STEM fields. Also, Connecticut College says that if you make under $50k you don’t have to take out loans. I believe they are strong in science too. I think both would be fits for your daughter. Case has Greek life, but it’s a fairly nerdy school from what I hear. Lots of serious students. I don’t think Connecticut College has Greek life. I think there you will find lots of artsy kids, but also some preppy kids as well.
Not all schools that ask students to take out loans require them to take $5500. For instance Bates, one of the schools that has been recommended to the OP’s daughter says on their FA Q&A page,
Okay I know that all of you are much more experienced than I am. BUT our financial information is the same, it won’t change from school to school. When you don’t have savings or assets, or much income, you qualify for what you qualify for. In these situations if you know a school checks all the boxes of what you’re looking for in a school AND is highly committed to meeting a students full demonstrated need, applying ED does make sense. There is an article about it here in Ask The Dean. Applying ED to a school you know you would feel blessed to attend and will be affordable is not foolish. SO is a great school and has everything she asked for.
I do believe ED is a totally different situation when you do have some assets, and savings even if their modest.
I don’t know what I’m not doing a great job articulating here. But I’m clearly not expressing myself well. My D is not trying to compare and negotiate offers from schools so she can back out of her ED agreement. I am only helping her do that now before the decision is released in case she is NOT accepted at SO.
SO is a full need school and yes that will include the minimum federal loan of 5500, we get that. We are trying to make sure she doesn’t have to borrow thousands more than that amount.
The only reason she would walk away from an acceptance at SO is if they require her to borrow well above the 5500.
That is not something they have a reputation for doing.
To reiterate the only reason I am helping her negotiate better FA packages at her current schools and applying at a few others as back up in case of rejection.
She will be thrilled to attend SO with a 26 ACT or 34 ACT. They do an amazing job supporting students who are economically disadvantaged, not just with their FA packages but with other programs for admitted students.
We are not trying to wiggle out of ED. We are leveraging the best packages IF she doesn’t get accepted.
The schools are fully aware of our resources or lack there of and were fully aware before her application and ED agreement were submitted. It was a topic of much discussion.
I really believe it is advantageous for families like ours to go ED if the school is the right school and meets full need (with federal loans of 5500 per year). It shows commitment to attend and high interest.
For example, we submitted an app last night to Kenyon. What makes her different from any other kid who needs full need? She didn’t commit with ED, she doesn’t look like a kid who has a real desire to attend. And she isn’t vested in Kenyon, it would be back up if she even got accepted.
Why in the world would admissions spend so much time developing a relationship with myself and my D if they were only going to accept her and offer a package they know we can’t afford?
@OHMomof2 if a parent is denied a plus loan the student is than eligible to borrow the amount the parent would need to borrow.
SO NPC did not include any parent contribution or additional loan beyond the 5500. I’ve heard from many the NPC is very accurate.
There are not many ways our financial information can be interpreted. There aren’t any variables. My only real asset is my home and they did want to know the principal balance of the mortgage and market value. But it’s the home I LIVE in with my children.
This is a financial situation that is very easy to read and assess. I assume there is a formula that is similar from school to school when assessing what demonstrated need is. Our case is not complex.
In so many ways I think this is a great plan. I am so happy for the good news on the ACT. My only tiny worry is the reaction my D had when we visited St Olaf. And I will say as a parent I loved the school. My D is dedicated musician and academic kid looking for a small LAC. The orchestra there is a dream come true and the facilities fabulous…about the best we have seen. If you typed in all of my Ds wants St Olaf would come up probably as the number one school. But she did not feel the connection there. In a million years I would never have guessed this would be the outcome. I know resources are limited for you to visit. But if it is remotely possible in the timeframe to withdraw ED I would try hard to make that happen. It sounds very likely she will be admitted and the finances will work in your favor. Likely they will fly her out for some sort of accepted student weekend…what if the school doesn’t resonate? The options are closed. Honestly I did not want to post this comment but as a Mom I felt I should. I am truly truly happy for your D and rooting for her. And I personally loved St Olaf. So that’s why I am commenting.
What I’ve been trying to tell you is that schools do not all calculate demonstrated need the same way, nor do they meet demonstrated need the same way. You may want to browse the CC financial aid forums. You’ll find that students applying to schools that claim to meet full need have received a much broader range of financial aid packages than you might expect. Bates expects students to take on less than the $5,500 for which they’re eligible. Colby meets need with grants, no loans. I’m not sure Colby would be the right school for your daughter, but it’s an illustration of the way in which FA packages can vary.
I understand what you’re doing with your negotiations-you’re setting up your daughter to be in the best possible financial position with the schools to which she’s been accepted in case St. O. doesn’t come through with an offer. That’s smart. If St. O. is her first choice even if it might cost a bit more than some of her other options it makes perfect sense to apply ED. I think some of us were concerned you might not have the full picture because you seemed to be prioritizing affordability but were pursuing an option that might not result in the lowest cost in the end.
Most full need schools include loans UP TO that amount, not above it.
Also while colleges that don’t include loans at all are relatively rare, there are a larger number that don’t include loans below a certain income level.
Case doesn’t meet full need (or even half need, in our case). It and BU were the worst packages D got.
Not quite - if the Plus is denied the student may be eligible for an additional $4-5k. Per https://financialaid.uconn.edu/plus/
But the schools will still make somewhat different “full need” offers, at least that was our experience. Packages varied by $10k or so per year (with and without loans included). All claimed to meet full need.
That said, the NPCs should be pretty accurate for you (we had the wrinkle of a non-custodial parent and a business). Sounds like SO is showing an affordable deal.
The schools my kids attended met full need, and their schools did NOT include loans. They both had work study included in their financial aid packages, and both worked during college.
Stafford loans were an additional option for us, but were not part of their financial aid package.
If schools do not use the federal formula (FAFSA EFC) then they use their own institutional formula to determine need, so the calculation of need can vary from school to school.
And whether or not they include Stafford loans in the financial aid package can vary as well. For example, at Wellesley, Stafford loans are not required for families with income less than $60,000 a year.
@OHMomof2 my business is just me. I don’t have any employees. Well from time to time I might have a contract employee. It’s a very young business, I just passed my 1 year anniversary (yay, I made it!).
We addressed the NCP issue head on, just like I did with Grinnell. The official documents I provided make it pretty clear.
By the way I did make more than $9000 this year, and I hope each year I do better, I hope that like my daughter I have the desire to keep on going no matter what. And if I make more money to contribute to my D, I will be thrilled! I want to give my children everything I can. But I also have a D who is a sophomore and will be right behind this one, in two years.
I think it’s realistic to project an income of $40,000 in the next two years. I’m doing ok with my young business.
Or at least what I consider ok in my world these past 6 years.
But even at that income level with two kids in college my need will still be high.
The business is an LLC with zero or at peak times just 1 employee, it’s still very uncomplicated.
Edited to add: Thank you for that number on the loan amount if the parent is denied the plus loan. I knew she could borrow more but I wasn’t certain what the amount was. If that is the case that puts us at the close to the number I told my D she should stay at. Less than $10,000 a year in federal loans.
She would happily borrow that amount to attend SO. It does check all the boxes of what she wants in a school. And that is what I consider a reasonable amount of debt for her to incur.
However, the NPC wasn’t asking for more than the 5500 and $288 a year. Let’s hope that’s accurate!
I am so sorry for your loss. In these circumstances, it may be best for your daughter to choose a school that is close to home. The cost of getting back and forth can be really high. We live in Maine and our son goes to Oberlin. There are no direct flights to Cleveland and getting home for breaks is an expensive and all day process.
In your situation, I’d encourage her to choose a school that she can get to by car.
My fingers are crossed for you @Grinnellhopeful !
@OHMomof2 I googled to see a list of schools that meet full need and I found one on College Green Light http://blog.■■■■■■■■■■■■■■■■■■■■■/blog/colleges-that-meet-100-of-student-financial-need/ and this is what I read:
Case Western Reserve University
Case Western Reserve University meets the full demonstrated financial need of all admitted students.
@Massmomm Thank you for the kind words. It’s been a few years now but that kind of pain never really goes away, you just get used to it.
You are touching on part of why we wanted to be regional. I can’t guarantee that I’m going to have $1000 for a plane ticket home if she needed to come home. What if she just had a moment during her freshman year where she was homesick and needed her mom and sister?
We are very tight little family. Although, this process has certainly taken it’s toll on my relationship with my daughter, I suspect we will bounce back from it.
She can get from Minneapolis to Kansas City on a direct flight. And if she ever felt comfortable enough on the highway it’s a 6 hour drive.
My daughter does have a very reliable car. We are so blessed and lucky that despite everything else there were resources my mother left for my children when she died that allowed my children to buy reliable cars to use to get back and forth from college. And we have been discussing how that will work. If she gets in the St. Olaf we may drive her car there together, so she doesn’t feel trapped on campus. 6 hours by car is probably the max distance and she will not be comfortable making that drive just yet. She’s a relatively new driver.
Almost every school on the list is a doable drive home. St. Olaf is probably the farthest.