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661

@wisteria100 I did. This topic started on several days ago. I was on it. I was relieved that her coverage is fine wherever she goes.
@intparent of course she has literally zero concept of how stressful her first semester of college will be. Or how it will at all. I’m trying to think of ways that I can increase my income to help with some of her personal expenses. She can’t have any clue about concepts that are obscure to her. She’s never been to college, she cannot really conceptualize an experience like this and she doesn’t know anybody that has gone away to school except state school. People learn from experiences.

I’m doing my best to help her. But just over a month ago, none of this was on the radar. She was going to go to Grinnell which isn’t that far from home or her state school.

Most of what I talk about here are my thoughts. I would never speak for my D unless I say that she specifically said something, it’s my take on what she might be thinking.

One step at a time. I’ll try to anticipate what’s ahead so I can start laying the ground work and thinking about what I need to do to support her best, and the community here has truly made this possible with the collective guidance offered. But she’s 17! She can’t know what she doesn’t know.

Also, being a good student is what is now ingrained in her, it’s part of her identity, it the source of her self confidence, it’s who she is. It was the week before Christmas I was on her to make sure she performed well on her finals to keep her A’s because it would help boost her chances of admission. She almost got a B, we thought for a few hours she did.

So, for me to tell her it doesn’t matter anymore would throw her off kilter and she wouldn’t listen anyway. I did gently tell her she could maybe cut herself a little slack and getting a B her final semester wouldn’t be the worst thing that happens. But she’s had 4 year goals, they may seem trivial or trite but they are her goals. She wants her graduation robe to be heavy with every Honor chord possible.

There is something to be said for a kid that has a plan and goals and puts in the work and commitment to attain those goals over a 4 year period of time.

If my D says she’s going to do something you can absolutely take to the bank that she will do it. That attitude will serve her well in college and life.

662

I’d check SO’s policy on AP and AB course credits. My kid’s LAC only allows higher placement for the highest scores and requires all students to take the equivalent of four (=16 hours) credits per semester. So there’s no reduction in the credits needed for a degree or any tuition costs unlike public colleges.

**I just checked and SO does allow 6 IB credits (6 courses) and scores of 5 -7 are accepted.

663

Blinders won’t serve her that well. It doesn’t say that much for her character that you don’t think you can get her to listen, either.

664

@TTdd16 I couldn’t agree more in regards to the SL level courses. It frustrating. She also is coming up on state competitions time for choir. That’s another big deal, lots of extra time goes into learning music beyond the curriculum. She is on the choir executive board and has some additional responsibilities as a Senior. Early morning and evening rehearsals, etc. she has service work she does through Key club and Spanish NHS, Art NHS, regular NHS. She loves the service, it makes her feel good.

I don’t think she would be opposed to working 10 hours a week, but that’s hard to find with her scheduling conflicts that will arise for her choir stuff coming up.

Lastly, she takes care of many things at home…I’m not going to go into all of that again, but she does.

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@intparent I have always appreciated your insight but it borders on offensive when you speak to her character.
ETA: I have never met someone with as much integrity as she has. Adult or child.

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HS seniors have to make choices that spring of senior year. It will come up if she has to decide whether to accept accepted student visits if she ends up in the RD pool. Inevitably some of those visits conflict with things (ECs, etc). My kid skipped the state tournament in her top EC to visit one of her 3 top choice school accepted visit days. And it is good that she did – that particular visit changed her trajectory of college choice, and really the trajectory of her life. She wasn’t happy about missing that event, but I really pushed it. As the adult & parent, you need to sometimes help them prioritize. As you said, she is only 17. Hopefully you can see further down the path than she can. Integrity is great. But it is not the same as making appropriate choices when faced with conflicting priorities. Being unable to afford a needed computer or books in her first semester of college threatens her future.

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@Grinnellhopeful, I do appreciate how busy your daughter’s schedule is, and it may be tough finding something to work with the state choir competitions coming up. But when we read that you’re literally worried about being able to afford upfront college costs of a few hundred dollars, then it’s reasonable to search for additional sources of income. Yes, service work feels good to kids, but your daughter contributing to your family finances–in advance of her own higher education–should certainly make her feel valued too. If she can’t get a regular job, she could actively solicit babysitting jobs on the weekends and still get some studying done. Or she could find a weekly housecleaning job that would work with her schedule (you wouldn’t believe how much that pays in our area, although I’m sure that’s not true everywhere.) Ultimately, it’s up to your family to figure this out, but I certainly think it’s reasonable for a student in a very low income family to contribute financially, and for that to take precedence over some other activities when the financial situation is so dire. From the perspective of someone who’s read this thread from the beginning, your family has gone through so much–and that your daughter has thrived and persevered is amazing. But you’re the one who’s done much of the work, and now I suggest it’s time for you to help her see beyond her senior year. You shouldn’t have to worry about taking out a loan to pay for upfront college costs when she could help bring in additional income.

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@TTdd16 I am worried but I am also the parent. I might be fretting too much? I think so much of it has to do with my uncertainty week over week and month over month what my income will look like because I’m a small business owner.

I may do better this month than last and this summer over last summer.

She still has a little bit of savings and she doesn’t spend much. I had kinda forgotten about my tax refund. I typically use it to catch up on bills but maybe I’ll use it for her computer? I finished up my P&L statements on Sunday and prepared my taxes, I just can’t officially file them until the 23rd I believe.

The piece I might not be articulating well is that I don’t want her to have to shoulder all the burden. I’m her mom, I should be there for her and help her. She is going to be taking out federal loans and doing work study. I want to do more.

I don’t want her to worry about her prescriptions and toiletries. Maybe as she gets a little older but I’m not quite prepared to just throw her to the wolves. It doesn’t feel good to me as a parent and it doesn’t feel right to have my children be responsible for household expenses. That’s my job.

So, she needs a summer job for sure. But I need to figure out how to increase my income so that I can help her better. But that’s just where I’m coming from and how I feel as a parent.

669

I think you are letting your guilt get in the way of the fact that many 17-18 year olds hold part time jobs, and work the summer before college (often more than one job, and often at unpleasant jobs) to cover their expenses. She is a young adult, and can and should carry some of that load. One of our rules for our kids was that they HAD to work for money (for someone other than a parent) the summer before going into college, and that they were responsible for covering their own books and spending money in college. You guys have more that she may need to be able to cover – costs of travel, car insurance, RXs, etc. Again… you guys are asking someone (really other tuition payers and donors to endowments) pay almost fully for her education. She really needs to step up to earning some of the money herself. If you protect her to the point where she doesn’t get good paid work lined up for this summer, you have done her no favors. I think for 17-18 year old, this is kind of coddling. I’m sure that word sounds odd to you given your circumstances. But you have to let go of owning all of this. She is old enough to contribute financially, and should be expected to do so. This is the point to pivot to her having some more adult responsibilities. Not in May when she graduates, but this spring in lining up at least summer work.

670

Again, each family makes its own decisions about finances, so I understand we’re coming from this from different places. We’re not in the same financial situation as you are, but we believe it’s important for our daughter to work and be aware of costs related to college and personal expenses and for her to contribute toward them. I think it’s an important early lesson in being fiscally responsible. I certainly don’t think it’s throwing her to the wolves to ask her to attempt to earn some money before college.

I’ll throw out another perspective that comes from my being a CASA (Court Appointed Special Advocate) to a senior girl in foster care. I shouldn’t go into too many details, but this is a child who was living on her own and supporting herself at age 14, before she entered the system (she did housecleaning and other jobs to pay her bills.) She now works up to 45 hours a week at two fast food jobs while going to high school full-time. No, she’s not a serious student like our daughters and no, she doesn’t participate in extracurriculars (she literally doesn’t have a day off.) Frankly, this situation shouldn’t happen in our society, but it has in her case, and I have tremendous respect for her work ethic. Learning to be successful in these first jobs, and building competence in them, is extremely important. My ultra academic geeky daughter has gained as much from her first job–including learning to deal with coworkers, clients, and two different bosses with completely different styles (the business was sold last month)–than she has in her classes this year.

Just read @intparent’s comment above and I couldn’t agree more. 17-year-olds should be ready to take on some more adult responsibilities.

671

Re the job thing. I agree that since you, @Grinnellhopeful , do anticipate your daughter will be working this summer, that she should start looking for a summer job at least by Spring break.

My daughter learned that lesson last year when she graduated from HS. She was all caught up in the senior year activities, AP tests, and graduation that when summer rolled around, she had a very difficult time finding a job. She ended up only finding a very part time babysitting job and saved about $800, but that was far less than the $2,500 her school expected her to contribute (and I guess they include that expectation into their FA calculation).

She’s still home on Christmas break after her first semester at college and is, this very minute, filling out an application for a summer job.

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@intparent I do understand what you’re saying and you could be right about the guilt part, I won’t deny that.

She’s responsible for her own spending money now, and no one has ever suggested that she not work this summer. She worked last summer. I don’t know what is out there in the way of work for her this summer that’s going to pay her the most. But she does certainly need to start thinking about it now so she has something lined up. My other daughter works during the school year but she spends excessively, IMO. She’s a far more social creature than D18,and D18 has taken responsibility for things at home that allow D20 more freedom.

I think this conversation took a turn when I suggested that she get through competition and IB testing and assessments before beginning a job.

She’s a bit socially awkward, I had to push her to take the job with the election office but when she got it and when she did it, it was empowering. It’s not lack of work ethic on her part. She took every available hour once she got past the awkwardness she was feeling about doing it, if that makes sense?

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@TTdd16 That story breaks my heart and a child who has worked so hard and been so self sufficient should be looked upon differently during the college application process. I hope she is exploring those options.

@LeastComplicated planning is clearly not my strong suit or my Ds, hence this thread. LOL we’re working on it.

@intparent I forgot to touch on another part of your post that’s eating at me. We are not asking for other tuition payers or endowments to cover those additional expenses, we don’t try to take advantage of anything. I’m just trying to get a handle on what those expenses are, so I can plan better. We are going to be incredibly grateful but most of her tuition and room and board is covered. I never expected them to cover her prescriptions or car insurance. That was not ever a part of my thought process or hers. Is that disconnect in my communication with you? Is that what you think I expect? If so I haven’t been very clear. We are pretty proud people and if she were so blessed to get a FA package that matched the NPC at StO, we know that is amazing gift for which I will be eternally grateful and so will she.

Nobody else is responsible for her incidental expenses other than us. I initially was questioning the books because I didn’t know!!!

The NPC doesn’t make it clear how that is covered. I think you may have misinterpreted my comments all along.

I am not asking anyone else to cover her personal expenses, end of story. I was just working through what those might be.

674

I was just going to write the same thing as TTdd16. Sometimes you have to choose a job over an event or activity. You could provide meals and medicine and a bed at home, but your daughter wants to go away to college, so there are some sacrifices she’s going to have to make. Your family has to prioritize medications, and that has to come before an IB test or an A in chemistry. If she needs to work, she needs to work.

I, too, feel guilty that I can’t just write a check and pay for all their college needs, including basic needs, but I can’t. My college roommate had everything paid for by her father, plus her mother sent her $20 every single Monday (arrived on Tuesday). That was a lot of money back then (still is to my kids). This allowed her all kinds of freedom and choices I didn’t have - she could volunteer at the ski hill (she also had a car and a motorcycle to get her places), she was a volunteer coach for a rec team of 8 year olds, she could go skiing whenever she wanted, she did not have to have a job while in college and could take any job she wanted in the summer even if it didn’t pay much. I didn’t have those options. I had to work, I had to work at places I could walk to (school library, typing orders) or take the bus. I had to watch every single dime I spent. Her mother was my angel, bringing us bags of food and toilet paper, baking cookies for us, making everyday living a little easier.

Your daughters, and mine, don’t have that luxury. We have to all work to make college possible, to give up some ECs, to get a B once in a while because we just didn’t have the time to study 8 hours for a test. What my daughter learned when she got a C (a C! one in her whole life) was that life went on, school went on, and it wasn’t bad at all.

I don’t think your daughter would get Bs if she’s as prepared as you say she is.

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I mean more the entire rest of the bill, to be honest. And colleges do include books and spending money in their cost of attendance calculations (at least many of them do, including the ones you are looking at). I just feel sometimes like maybe SHE isn’t appreciating just how (1) risky her application strategy has been for a student who literally needs a full ride, and (2) that she also may not yet appreciate that colleges are going to expect not just hard work in the classroom, but a lot of elbow grease in earning money to cover some of the expense involved in college.

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@twoinanddone Her IB English teacher scared the living crap out of her at the beginning of the school year (when she was so worried about college admissions and merit aid) when he said he never gives A’s or something along those lines, I suspect it was more like you have to work very hard to earn an A in this class…and in fact she may have been the only one to get an A.

Again, remember just a few weeks ago she was so focused on having all A’s her first semester to boost her chances of admission to StO. And I do believe her 7th semester GPA and increased test scores will factor in if admitted. Those two things are also allowing her merit to be re-evaluated at the schools she been accepted to.

We are only 1 week into the 2nd semester and she’s working on her IOC for IB English. She’s not quite at the point she can switch gears. To her, grades = merit aid, which is money she earned, and she’s right. It has been a very important factor.

I have talked with her about college and the fact that her GPA is important to maintain any merit aid but a B or even an occasional C isn’t the end of the world and when she graduates nobody is probably going to ask about her GPA…except…she knows she needs to go to grad school.

She puts a lot of pressure on herself. She probably works harder than she needs to to get the grades that she has. But that will serve her well as she gets to college because she’ll be prepared academically.

She’s not gonna have many of the same luxuries that other students have but the very least I can do is make sure she doesn’t have to pay for her own prescriptions the first year or so. That’s on me. I’m just gonna have to get creative. She knows she won’t be getting spending money from me for fun stuff. I so wish I could, I want to. Maybe I’ll be able to send a little here and there but she won’t be able to count on it.

However, one of the things that she has learned these past few years is how very little she needs. She literally still has money in savings from seventh and eighth grade Christmas and birthday money. She’s not a spendthrift. I think she’ll be all right. I was just trying to figure out what expenses I hadn’t thought of. The first things that came to mind were covering her computer and her prescriptions. I’m probably worrying prematurely because I don’t even know where she’ll be yet. If accepted at StO, that’s where she’ll be because she signed an ED agreement. But it’s still unknown.

She knows she has to work this summer, but she is a good saver so she’ll put away everything she earns to get her through the school year.

The only thing that I was trying to say beyond that was that she’s probably not in the position this week or this month to start working because she needs to get through some of her assessments and start her IB testing.

In my experience with my son and with my younger daughter and even with this daughter over last summer they just didn’t have the opportunity to make a tremendous amount of money. But it is clear that she needs to start looking now.

Those wonderful parents like your roommate’s mom, always make me feel so inadequate. There are moms in my children’s world that are so much better at the home cooked meals and baking, I appreciate them and their presence in my children’s world, but I always focus on how much better I should be doing.

Bless those moms and I hope my children continue to encounter them wherever they are. I hope that I offfer something to every child I encounter as well. It takes a village.

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The NPC takes everything into account, although with averages for travel, books, incidentals, and comes up with the cost of attendance, the COA. The FA award is then made off the COA. If you use all the awarded money for tuition and room and board, you have less for the rest. At some schools, the schools do award the entire COA to the students who need it. Yes, the school is paying for toothpaste and travel and books and beer.

From what you posted about St.O’s NPC, it seems to deal in bulk. Here’s how much it costs, here’s how much you can have in FA, from Pell, borrow in loans. After the billed costs are covered, the school doesn’t care how you spend the rest. If the student buys beer instead of books, the school isn’t going to say anything. The books are included in the projected costs, the school just doesn’t make you spend the awarded money on books.

Some scholarships are very specific. Athletic money awarded for books HAS to be spent on books, some colleges award money for books and you HAVE to buy the books through the bookstore. If you don’t spend the $750 on books, you don’t get the rest in cash.

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@intparent What application strategy? We didn’t have one the first week of December, remember? It’s well established that she and I had no clue whatsoever! I hope that I have conveyed my gratitude for the assistance from the people who have contributed to this thread sufficiently.

Our success thus far is truly a collaborative effort. I certainly can’t take all the credit for it. I hope all of you that have followed and contributed your time and thoughts and expertise celebrate in what has been pulled off thus far. It speaks to the power of a community of parents that care about these young adults.

Also she is fully aware she has to work, I can’t stress that enough. You are hearing my voice not hers. She knows the deal and she isn’t afraid of work. She just doesn’t understand what she has no experience with. I didn’t understand how the ins and outs of work study. I didn’t understand that for instance maybe her books weren’t covered by the grants and aid.

It was a new piece of information for me to digest because books can be expensive and I wasn’t sure we would have several thousand dollars when she sets foot on campus the first day.

How could I possibly know how the merit aid and grant is applied when we don’t even know what school she’s going to yet, or the extent of aid?

I wasn’t complaining about it, I was and still am processing so I can try to plan better. As established from the very beginning I didn’t plan well at all. We all know I failed.

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I really feel like I need to make a statement and then just leave it. We are applying to a school that does a great job of meeting 100% of demonstrated need. If she is accepted than that school found her worthy of their generosity.

I sometimes pick up the vibe that a few people don’t think she deserves it or is worthy. If she isn’t, she won’t be accepted and granted that generosity.

There are many kids that have gone through much worse than we have and still managed to have better grades and test scores and work 40 hours a week. Those kids should obviously be given more consideration and I would never begrudge them or be resentful.

I can’t imagine how challenging it is for admissions to decide who to accept when it comes to meeting so much need. Because there are so many kids who deserve a chance. The child who has been working so much and on her own since the age of 14 until she entered the system that was referred to earlier…wow she needs and deserves a hand up in life.

If my D is accepted and given an amazing FA package, assume that the people in admissions saw something in her that they felt was worthy and don’t resent us for it. They look at much more than what I say or she says. They gather information from GC and LORs. They have been doing this for awhile and usually get it right if you look at their graduation rates and average earnings after graduation.

If anyone failed in this equation with my D it is me not her.

And I’m certain there are many many kids who are more deserving and may have some extreme circumstances.

I’m not in admissions. But I will trust in whatever decision they make.

If we have to pay less than someone else, I don’t know what to say…I’m sorry? But I expect that if someone’s price tag is more than ours they also have some resources we don’t have. You win at parenting, you did better than I did.

I wish I had done a better job earning and planning, but don’t hold that against my children who at this point haven’t even been accepted.

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@Grinnellhopeful you are doing a great job getting up to speed here and absorbing a lot of new info and comments from a lot of people (who are all here to help but sometimes seem abrupt or abrasive).

One thing I want to add: IMO Getting good grades and a part time school year job is not an either/or. That said, there’s an obvious need for money that makes a job important in this case (and I think starting ASAP, not in the summer, because more time to save $ and a better chance of a good summer job continuing from the school year one).

BUT.

Working and going to school and doing activities all at the same time is time management - a very important skill to learn. Any college work study job will start when she’s trying to get used to the college workload and dorm life, so there’s a lot to be said for getting some experience with this NOW, in what is probably the least important semester of her education from a college standpoint (apps and transcripts already in).

Also, jobs teach skills. Jobs form connections. Jobs show employers that you show up on time and take imitative and get along with people and that matters on the resume she puts together 4 years from now. It might matter for a better work study job than a kid with little experience can get. A job can be a great opportunity.

Even if my kids hadn’t needed the money, I’d have wanted them to work part time during HS. The time management and people skills and confidence gained are incredible assets, even if it’s serving in a restaurant or scooping ice cream or even mowing lawns and babysitting.