@KevinFromOC… Brag on Kevin!! ?.. This is “your” thread BTW. We “all” have been known to talk about and highlight our kids while giving examples to others etc. We are joining “your” journey.
It’s been a fun ride and looking forward to where she lands.
I am happy to read of parents gushing about their kids. This is the place to do it since i wont do it in real life.
And there is a “bragging thread” in the parents cafe here if you really want to brag. That’s what it’s for!
Does your daughter have any top choices among the schools that are affordable? Has she looked into these schools, done some research, formed a few opinions about likes, dislikes etc?
"No need to mock the choices of the OP’s family. "
I’m not mocking at all – don’t know where you got that from.
23 apps is a long, tiresome grind. I know, having coached my kids through a similar gauntlet of mind-numbing college app essaying (but topping out at about 15 apps). But if you are hunting for the merit money, there’s really no alternative.
“Then there were several on the original list that we had to let go because their essay requirements were overwhelming with everything else going on.”
@KevinFromOC – I laughed when I saw this comment. I think several of us on here predicted months ago that was going to happen.
I recall my youngest, on the morning of December 31, saying “Fork you Wake and Nova. I don’t care about going to your stupid school if you want so many lame essays!”
The tank was completely empty, at least for anything that couldn’t be yet another rinse/repeat/recycle job.
Medical school is a little different (although the time commitment to complete the applications is similar). For medical school applicants, there are no safety schools and no schools with guaranteed automatic merit aid (except places like NYU which offer free tuition to all…and have acceptance rates in the low single digits). Most medical school applicants complete 20 or more applications, and many secondaries…hoping for at least one acceptance.
@KevinFromOC your initial posts indicated your daughter would be happy attending any college. And you indicated your affordability. Your daughter has her affordable options…and they are good ones. It’s fine to apply to a reach school or two…but please, just be honest with your daughter about the affordability of the reach schools.
Hoping applications for daughter 1 are in the hopper too.
Remember too, some schools will ask the costs you are paying for your older daughter to attend college. IIRC, you indicated that you wouldn’t be paying anything for her to go to college. If that number is really $0 and your younger daughter’s colleges ask for your out of pocket costs…it’s not going to help you get increased need based aid. I don’t know if your daughter’s reach schools ask this…or not. @sybbie719 can explain this. I’m not making it up.
Your daughter has much to be happy about. It’s January and she has affordable options with classrooms, dorms, etc…which was what you indicated she wanted.
Miami of Ohio gets my vote!
@KevinFromOC I really want to thank you for this whole discussion thread. It has been a fascinating read and I with I had seen such a thread last year when my DD was a junior! 
I’ve been thinking that applying for 15 schools was just too many but throwing a wide net was exactly our plan and so far it has worked just fine. I suspect our son will narrow down his search in 2 years having watched his older sis write hours and hours of essays!! Good luck to your kid and to all of the kids on this thread!! Thank you all for your contributions.
The other approach (which I strongly advocate) is to have the CA essay and activities list/resume DONE BEFORE the start of senior year. It can be updated and tweaked as necessary, but this is a HUGE help to the students, for as senior year starts its like drinking out of a fire hose. And once a student gets a feel for what its like to write a college essay (and understand the difference between a school essay and a college app essay) it gets much easier.
I have learned so much from this thread. Sadly D did not end up with the score to make NMF which was our plan for her to be able to go “away” to college. I want to take a look at Miami OH now. Wow what great merit!!! I continue to cheer your D on and am eager to see where she lands.
Keep in mind just because your FAFSA will give you an EFC of 20k, it does not necessarily mean that school that use an institutional methodology or a combination of federal methodology for federal aid and institutional methodology for their own funds, you will pay 20k should your D be admitted to Princeton
You will most likely pay more than 20k (even with a FAFSA EFC of 20K). Princeton is going to look at how much you are actually paying for your older child to attend college. They will also take in to consideration if part of your daughters college expenses are being paid by the state through vocational and rehabilitative services for persons with disabilities.
Federal Methodology is used to determine eligibility for all federal funds, such as Federal Pell Grants, Federal Academic Competitiveness Grants (ACG), Federal National Science and Mathematics Access to Retain Talent (SMART) Grants, Federal Supplemental Educational Opportunity Grants (FSEOG), Federal Stafford loans, and Federal Work-Study.
Schools that distribute their own institutional funds use an ** Institutional Methodology** and their professional judgment to determine eligibility for their school’s scholarship funds.
Two distinct formulas assess information reported in the aid application process. The traditional institutional methodology (IM), developed by the College Board and refined annually by economists and aid administrators, determines the expected family share of costs. IM is the dominant standard among selective national colleges. Most schools that use an institutional methodology to disburse their own funds use either the CSS profile or their own FA form.
The federal methodology (FM) through the filing of determines eligibility for federal aid. All schools require students who are U.S. citizens or permanent residents to at minimum file the FAFSA if they are requesting FA. The only thing the FAFSA does is determine one’s ability for federal aid, (pell grants, seog, stafford loans).
Differences between the IM and FM models include:
IM collects information on estimated academic year family income, medical expenses, elementary and secondary school tuition and unusual circumstances. FM omits these questions.
IM considers a fuller range of family asset information, while FM ignores assets of siblings, all assets of certain families with less than $50,000 of income, and both home and family farm equity.
FM defines income as the “adjusted gross income” on federal tax returns, plus various categories of untaxed income. IM includes in total income any paper depreciation, business, rental or capital losses which artificially reduce adjusted gross income.
FM does not assume a minimum student contribution to education; IM expects the student, as primary beneficiary of the education, to devote some time each year to earning money to pay for education.
FM ignores the noncustodial parent in cases of divorce or separation; IM expects parents to help pay for education, regardless of current marital status.
FM and IM apply different percentages to adjust the parental contribution when multiple siblings are simultaneously enrolled in college, and IM considers only siblings enrolled in undergraduate programs.
The IM expected family share represents a best estimate of a family’s capacity (relative to other families) to absorb, over time, the costs of education. It is not an assessment of cash on hand, a value judgment about how much a family should be able to use current income, or a measure of liquidity. The final determinations of demonstrated need and awards rest with the University and are based upon a uniform and consistent treatment of family circumstances.
Except in the most extraordinary circumstances, Colleges classifies incoming students as dependent upon parents for institutional aid purposes, even though some students may meet the federal definition of “independence.”
Students enrolling as dependent students are considered dependent throughout their undergraduate years when need for institutional scholarships is determined.
For institutional aid purposes a student may not “declare” independence due to attainment of legal age, internal family arrangements, marriage or family disagreements.
Keep in mind that Princeton and similar schools calculates your financial aid using a combination of both the federal and institutional methodologies.
My Daughter attended Dartmouth.
Dartmouth states in their financial aid handbook:
If the contribution calculated using the federal need analysis is higher than Dartmouth’s calculation, the higher figure must be used.
Princeton states:
Each college may have its own variation of institutional methodology as well, so institutional-methodology-derived EFC can be different for different colleges.
It is also possible for a college to use its own institutional methodology while using only FAFSA to gather information for US citizens and permanent residents.
I don’t come to the FA page very often, but I happened to tonight, and just saw this thread. Wow! I read your OP, @KevinFromOC , and then the last five or six pages, and I have two things to say:
Congrats on raising a great kid who seems to have a level head on her shoulders, an amazing work ethic, and a bright, bright future.
Congrats and kudos to you for putting up with an amazing amount of snipe-y suspicious questioning with grace and humor. I’m appalled at the constant drumbeat of “but wait!” “But did you consider…(thing you have explained multiple times)” “But why…(thing you have answered over and over)” etc. And to say that your answers seem “off” because for instance your D does not have distinct preferences. I mean, I can see that along the way you have gleaned a lot of good info here, but I am impressed you continue to wade through a whole lot of ungraciousness that i’m just really, really surprised by.
In any case, I’m going to keep following now, because I’ve been hooked by the story and now I have to see how it ends. Thanks for your continued generosity in sharing. Best wishes to you and your D.
Schools use the FAFSA to determine eligibility for federal aid. Even though Princeton is generous with their own need based aid, Pell grants are an entitlement. If a student is eligible for Pell based on their FAFSA they will receive it.
@garland, I couldn’t agree more with your second paragraph. Thank you for articulating it so well.
Many of us have been with the OP since his initial post. We have been through over 60 pages. Many of us took the time to help, to research schools, etc. We all cheered him on. He asked for advice, and he received it. People don’t always like the advice that they ask for…and receive…but those of us who gave it were always respectful. This dad said he can afford about $15.000 a year. His EFC is much higher…much.
We all wished him luck, congratulated his daughter on her accomplishments etc. As this thread progressed …and more and more information came out, lots more applications were considered…it became obvious that there was a lot more going on here…a lot more…than a dad who was simply looking for affordable schools.
This is a kid who doesn’t care where she attends college. Doesn’t care one bit. She’s a very smart girl who attends a boarding school and seems happy playing hockey. There is nothing wrong with a smart kid who has no preference. Quite the opposite…it should make this process much easier. But…this is a dad who wants her to attend Princeton (if accepted) and it seems he will do what he needs to do to make that happen. Perhaps I am wrong.
Many families have high stats kids who could have applied to Princeton, but didn’t …due to costs. Many families limit the elite schools to those that offer merit. If there is no merit…the school is crossed off. There is no gray zone. This scenario is very, very common. I find myself questioning the psychology behind Kevin’s wishes for Princeton. Why isn’t the sweatshirt from Arizona good enough? Surely he must know that his D will accomplish great things regardless of school. A top kid taking huge merit will certainly accomplish amazing things, yes? IMO it’s the accomplishments that matter…not the bumper sticker. This girl will be an engineering major…she will be surrounded by smart kids regardless of school. Wasn’t the goal here affordability? What am I missing?
This is an anonymous thread and Kevin owes us nothing. His daughter now has several affordable schools…we wish her the best…we always did. That has not changed.
We also want what is best for Kevin’s older daughter. We extend our best wishes for success. I say this as somebody who has worked for over 30 years with people having disabilities.
I want to end my post by saying that although I have always been honest, I have also always been respectful …and never “snippy.”
I have loved reading this thread. Every bit of it. It contains the best (generosity) and worst (assumptions and pre-conceived judgments) CC has to offer. I am grateful for everyone’s contributions, especially OP’s.
It also highlights the strong, weird emotional responses people have about Ivies. I don’t understand what the big deal is about Princeton being included in the mix, and I have never gotten the vibe that dad was pushing Princeton or was being disingenuous about the financial realities behind which schools were realistic. I can also understand why, if daughter gets in, the family would stretch to make the finances work for Princeton when they wouldn’t for other schools. It isn’t like they applied to all of the Ivies without doing the research – they picked a specific one, for good reason, and if it comes out as affordable and she gets in (fingers crossed), fantastic! It doesn’t mean the other options are any less wonderful.
Can’t wait to see how this turns out.
I also read every page of the thread. I’m trying to keep up but so I can remember things for my sons apps but it makes my head spin a bit.
I agree the OP has been a champ.
Elite NE boarding schools have top-notch highly personalized college counseling, to which the OP and his kid have access. So the motivation for the whole thread puzzled me.
Some boarding school counselors are less than adept when assisting those with unaffordable EFCs and/or those who are merit hunting.
This applies to all threads, not just this one (which I too have read from start to finish): at some point, people have to accept the the OP (any OP) will, having listened to all the responses, make their own decision and choices. It may not be what some people posting on the thread agree with. That is ok. I suggest that, having made, and remade, their point that responders consider if continuing to question the OP is productive for the thread, or for the OP.
Pretty much everyone’s point has been made, and now the family will make their own choices. Let them.
I do hope the thread continues because there is a lot of positivity and I too really want to know how the story ends – where the daughter ends up. I am certain it will all work out well, whether it is Arizona or Princeton or any of the other schools she’s considering.