While the college advising is indeed excellent the counselors can’t know everything and I suspect there is more knowledge about a concentrated hunt for a LOT of merit aid here on CC than in the boarding schools college office. This is because MOST boarding school kids are not middle class. They are full pay and looking to be full pay in college, or on need based financial aid and qualifying for financial aid in college. I know boarding schools are wanting to increase middle class representation but until the boarding schools pay more $$ out, boarding school is not affordable to middle class families. That is why there are relatively few (not none, just not that many) kids needing to put this much effort into finding a lot of merit aid.
There is nothing wrong with applying to Ivy League (or similar) schools and allowing your child to attend one if it is affordable. Let me get that out there right now.
There is nothing wrong with doing what needs to be done to afford such schools…a stay at home parent going back to work, eating out less, saving for many years, etc.
To use Andover as an example, 47% of its students receive financial aid, and 13% receive a full ride. So I think elite NE boarding school counselors know a great deal more about merit and need based college aid than assumed. They need to place all their kids, not just the full pay ones.
@twogirls …I think there is a distinct and significant difference in a student “being happy wherever they go” and “not caring one bit” where they go to college. I suspect Kevin’s daughter does in fact care where she goes…she’s putting in a lot of work on her apps, and she’s a driven, hard-working kid. She’s casting a wide net so that she has options and she’s backed by a supportive family. I have a similar kid who will indeed by happy wherever she ends up but that does not mean she doesn’t care. She just has no idea yet…much to research…much to consider…many more applications pending. A kid like @KevinFromOC’s daughter will have an opinion, and an informed one I am sure. Good luck Kevin–excited to see where she goes!
Kevin stated in his original post that his daughter is “not picky at all about where she attends college.” At one point he indicated that she wants dorms (forgot the exact wording). To me…that seems like a pretty easy going kid. Kevin doesn’t owe us any updates…but…we have not heard anything else about his D’s opinions, likes, dislikes, research, etc.
I am not suggesting that this student is not hard working.
Throwing quick observation on presumptions and judgments based on completely inadequate information throughout this thread: common. Don’t remember/don’t care which poster(s), but my favorite example of arrogance was when the OP described the college research efforts using the pronoun ‘we’ instead of ‘she.’ I assume that the OP, like me, doesn’t write his posts with as much care as if he were Secretary of State, yet he was skewered for doing too much for his daughter based on his choice of words. He wasn’t first asked if perhaps he was doing too much to the detriment of the daughter and the process, it was immediately proclaimed by several here that he was guilty. Sorry…not okay. No one has enough information to make that determination.
Back to the regularly scheduled programming…
Argh - Andover Big Blue - a fierce rival!
At her school a lower percentage receive financial aid. The college counselling was great as far as application tips, essay help, letters of recommendation, and technical questions. But as far as guidance regarding chasing merit (and financial) aid, there was very little, if any. We had to research and manage that part ourselves.
A lot of her senior friends applied ED to one school, most got it, and I’m sure they are just paying full (or near full) price.
I must not have been clear. Boarding Schools will know a great deal about need based financial aid because so many of their kids are on it, and will continue to need to be on it in college. That’s the 47% you reference. But they are not necessarily looking for merit based large awards.
Similarly the full pay families – those families may be happy to get a $25,000/year discount at a private college, thus making what they pay out $50,000 vs $75,000. But that’s not what the OP is after. And I am guessing that most of the full pay families aren’t even swayed by that type of merit award.
There just aren’t very many kids chasing high dollar merit (not need based financial aid) at boarding schools. Thus, while a counselor may know of say, Alabama’s program, they almost certainly will have no idea of Utah’s or Kentucky’s because literally none of their kids over the years have ever applied or gone there. That’s where the CC knowledge base is much deeper!
@KevinFromOC Count me in the camp of “shoot for the stars” rather than “settle for good enough”. Keep on fighting, keep on persevering, keep on hoping!
Wow…
There is nothing wrong with shooting for the stars (my guess is this is Princeton) as long as those stars are affordable, the student wants it and sees it as a fit school, and the family doesn’t have to turn itself into a pretzel in order to achieve it. By “turning itself into a pretzel,” I do not mean tightening your belt a bit more, early saving, extra work, limited vacations…etc. That’s perfectly fine.
To me, there is something a bit off here. Dad is putting down two in college…knowing that this might not happen. Or…it might happen for a year and then stop (G-d forbid). Dad knows that when Princeton asks the cost of older D’s school…he will have to enter $0. How then…will he pay for Princeton? His EFC is $40,000 a year and he could afford less than $20,000. As I said earlier…everybody handles risks differently. This is his risk to take…I wish him well. I pray that dad is doing what is in the best interests of his older daughter. I pray that Kevin comes back and tells me that yes…he is doing exactly what his older daughter needs. And maybe…just maybe…Kevin really can afford his EFC with only one child in college…despite telling us otherwise (that would be great!). I would hate to have his daughter lose her scholarships.
I would never say a full ride (or almost a full ride) to an outstanding school…is settling… or “good enough.” That is absurd. It’s amazing and something to be proud of.
This reminds me of a discussion at work. Some people were discussing “elite” school acceptances. One of the teachers turns to the group and says…excuse me…but every single college acceptance is something to be proud of.
And once again I wish this family well…I really, really do.
@twogirls, I can only speak for myself, but your support for OP shines through. I don’t think anyone could reasonably interpret your posts otherwise. I especially appreciate your thoughts about the older daughter.
I just figure that OP has taken this project on like a classic engineer, meaning thorough and methodically. I am pretty sure he has contemplated the many possible outcomes and contingencies, and their impact on both daughters. And like a classic engineer, once all of the data is in, the decision will also be methodical and thoughtful. I have no doubt that the decision will be based on what is best for everyone involved. The family has got this.
I am curious whether the daughter has read this thread, though. :). If so, what does she think about it?
Any of us with 2 kids in college at the same time had to make the assumption that they’d both be in college and continue in college when picking the schools and when filling out the financial aid applications months before they’d even finished high school. I had a situation similar to OP’s in that I had two graduating from hs at the same time and one was a pretty good student while the other was okay but had some learning disabilities (and like OP’s, those were because of premature birth). We just didn’t know how it would play out so assumed she’d go to college and stay in college (and there were several times over the 5 years that we didn’t know what was coming next). My other daughter went with the school that gave her a big scholarship but to keep it she had to get a certain gpa. There are risks involved and sometimes you just have to take them if that’s the school you want to attend.
What’s the worse thing that could happen if the OP’s older daughter either doesn’t go to college or doesn’t stay in college? The FA could be reduced to the point where younger daughter can’t afford Princeton any more. Family has to decide if they are willing to take that risk. Would she rather start at Princeton and not be able to finish or go with the sure thing at a college like Arizona or Rose Hulman and not worry about the sibling’s status? Some families don’t mind the risk while others want everything buttoned down from the beginning.
Wouldn’t the financial aid forms already ask for the sibling’s college cost? FAFSA doesn’t ask (just whether there is a second student in a qualified program), and I know Princeton doesn’t use CSS, but does Princeton’s form ask, and if so, shouldn’t that already have been asked (at least for an estimate, which in this case is $0)? I thought Princeton’s NPC was supposed to be pretty good.
This is a public message board (ok, you have to sign in to post, but it’s not like CC asks for a urine specimen or criminal background check to join). Someone posts looking for advice, perspective, some contrarian thinking— and they’re going to get it. Is the advice always spot on? Of course not. We don’t know the posters, we’ve not met their kids, we can’t tell from a public water cooler who is massaging their finances or stretching the truth or putting a positive spin on something. And we have no insights into someone’s marriage or family dynamics.
In real life, when a friend who has confided that they’ve had some marital challenges of late asks you " Should I withdraw 50K from my 401K to help my kid with college" you get to say “Do what you want, but it sounds like a risky move” without being accused of being snippy. On CC, you get accused of being an elitist if you say “it’s worth it for Princeton, but not for Stonehill or Johnson and Wales”, or you get accused of not caring about education if you say “you’re marriage is falling apart and you’re risking your retirement? Are you insane?”
The OP has been a good sport- but he posted here asking for opinions and that’s what he got.
There are a LOT of posters here who are done with paying for college, whose kids are well launched into careers, and who are at the stage where they are seeing the adult sibling relationships of their now adult kids. And if we (collectively) have encouraged the OP to think about some issues he may not have thought about, considered alternative viewpoints, etc, then that’s presumably why he posted.
I have friends in real life (and siblings, and cousins) who were dogmatic about college who have come to realize that their way was not the only way. People facing retirement still confronting those huge Parent Plus loans that seemed like such a good idea at the time. People who used their HELOC for tuition only to discover that housing prices go down as well as up. People who learn- after the fact- that a big event like the global banking crises in 2008 can deliver a hat trick- both adults can lose their jobs, their home value goes way down, AND their retirement accounts take a huge hit. That’s when it seems almost quaint to ask your kid to consider a merit only college- the family is frantically trying to save their home.
Folks can take away whatever lessons they wish, but if you’re gonna post asking for advice, that’s what you’ll get.
After all these posts, I also still remain curious about the daughter’s thoughts about all this. I commend her for being willing to submit all these applications, essays, on top of a very busy senior year. It seems a lot to ask, unless the child is also totally onboard with the process.
I just flat out don’t know how the OP’s D is going to decide. She already has so many options. No one needs ten or more options and I think she should start putting the schools in order that she’s already heard from. Maybe some can start falling off of the list.
I’ve read many times on this forum about high school seniors who wanted one thing in the fall at the start of applications and then made a much different choice or at least had more developed opinions come April. Since OP’s daughter is easy going and will likely do well and be happy at most colleges, that’s great! It doesn’t mean she won’t have opinions or preferences or start narrowing down soon, and doing some visits will surely help. I’m guessing once she is done with the scholarship applications, she will have a little more time to start narrowing down the affordable options she currently has. It sounds like the work of both dad and daughter has led and will lead to a variety of good options.
FWIW, my D17’s LAC asked for documentation of S19’s enrollment and total COA but not exactly what we are paying. My S19’s top 20 university did not ask for any information about D’s LAC costs.
Plenty of kids have 10 or more acceptances and then throw away half of them immediately. I count three to four options that are affordable at the moment (Alabama may be borderline unless more money is forthcoming). That may increase to five or six by the end of the process. And at that point one or two may stand out much more prominently if they end up as full rides. Unless something unexpected happens (which was the point of casting a wide net) I don’t see this as a difficult decision, and (as I predicted a couple of months ago) she will very likely end up in either the mountain west or midwest on a full ride or close to it.
I understand why folks are warning the OP about potential risks of Princeton FA but I assume OP has run the NPC both ways and knows the risk. It might be an eye opener for others to run it themselves with some assumptions about OP’s AGI (which I don’t think was ever shared ? but is likely in the 170-200k range?), assuming either 1 or 2 in college.
The flip side of the risk equation is that either parent could lose a job, face health issues, etc. Merit money won’t increase in those circumstances but Princeton FA most likely will. It’s not exactly known as a place where kids have to drop out for financial reasons.
Anyway, admission is a long shot for anyone but it seems perfectly reasonable to have applied. Good luck!
I just looked at Alabama costs. Tuition and fees for 2919/20 are just about $31,000.
Room and board estimate around $13,000
Presidential scholarship is $26,000
Then engineering majors get another $2,500
And she is National Hispanic Scholar, so she gets the following:
https://scholarships.ua.edu/freshman/national-hispanic-recognition-scholarship/
So she would get first year of housing at regular room rate as well.
So for the first year she should only have to pay for difference of her actual room rate to regular room rate, tuition/fees minus $26,000 + $2,500, and mandatory meal plan.
That should be less than $10,000
Plus books and travel, but she would have that at most OOS schools.
After freshman year meal plan is not mandatory and many students move off campus to apartments near UA.
Once she gets all FA numbers in, she can focus on program and location, and other things she cares about and visit the top (affordable) contenders.
She is fortunate to already have several very affordable and excellent college acceptances and it’s only January. Miami, Alabama, Arizona, and RH are all at the price point…or lower…for this student and all are excellent programs.