Looking for advice in Merit aid for a top 1% student

Paying for College
1581

[Continued from post above…]

(7) Make a plan of attack for submitting applications, so that your applications (and essay writing) is spread out, and not bunched together. In our case we had to eliminate some schools we really wanted to apply to because they were bunching up, and time was precious.

Look up every school’s application deadlines, and keep a spreadsheet with deadlines sorted. Deadlines seem to be grouped into 3 different time periods : those due around November 1, December 1, or January 1.

Be aware that some schools are two-phase : first you submit the regular application with essays, and then a month or two later the honors or big scholarship application is due for which there is another set of essays.

Apply non-restrictive early action wherever possible - usually that’s where the big merit awards are given. Never apply early decision.

It also seems like the earlier the deadline is (and correspondingly the earlier that the college’s notification date is) the better the chance is that the school will give out significant merit aid.

Most schools state that as long as you get your application in by the deadline that they are all equally reviewed for merit aid. In our case many applications didn’t get submitted until just a few days before, or the day of the application deadline. But not all schools work that way - we learned here on CC that some schools, such as Pitt, dole out their merit aid essentially on a first come first serve basis - thus the sooner you get your application in the better. Figure out which schools those are and get their applications in as early as possible.

(8) Start all of the above, including the essay writing, as early as possible. We waited too long - she should have started in earnest in May instead of August.

(9) Speaking of essays, make sure your student is prepared that there will be A LOT of essay writing. Probably 5-10 hours per week for 3-4 months straight (Assuming around 20 applications).

(10) Don’t even bother with the Net Price Calculators. They will show you the cost of the school with estimated financial aid, but there’s no way they can anticipate merit aid awards, which is what you are counting on. Therefore in this case the NPC is meaningless. As an extreme example the NPC from Rose Hulman gave us an estimated COA of $50K, and our actual cost would have been $0.

(11) Put in an application or two as early as possible, just to “get the hang of it”. Pick a couple “easy” applications and get them done in September.

Now here’s something that caused a big ruckus earlier on this thread, but I still feel it worked for us : I held my daughter’s hand during the first couple applications. I even typed in part of the first application myself - the mundane information such as address, parent’s education, and income. Several folks here on CC were adamantly opposed to this - they felt that the student should complete the application with very little or no help from the parent. But again, this worked for us - after helping my daughter with the first couple like this, she did every single one by herself afterwords.

(12) Keep the calendar open for February and March, which is when the big scholarship competitions are. These are fantastic to attend - they roll out the red carpet and the experience you get of the school is way better than just a normal visit. In our case, we attended 4 such events, at Miami, USC, UofSC, and Rose Hulman (which turned into a virtual event). My D20 was invited to apply to more of these events (from Utah, Michigan State, and Colorado School of Mines), but because we were already jam packed with these 4 we didn’t even bother applying for the others.
Likewise keep the calendar open for March/April (Spring Break) to visit the schools whose merit awards have put them into the top 5 or so schools in the running. That is assuming some virus doesn’t throw a monkey wrench into those plans, as it did ours!

If I think of anything else I’ll try to append to this list…

And again, this is what worked for us. These may or may not work for other students. And there are more things you can do which we did not - such as applying for outside scholarships or trying to negotiate offers from schools.

Anyway, please take these suggestions for what they are worth - which is probably about 2 cents!

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1582

Congratulations and thanks very much for summarizing your family’s application process in detail! Very helpful!!!

You mentioned above that some of the applications were very quick and simple to complete, do you happen to recall which of these schools were like this? I seem to recall you or someone mention that the University of Alabama application takes like fifteen minutes or so?

Thanks again!!

1583

Really great tips Kevin and I’m sure a lot of people will benefit from your summary.

You know this is coming?, but…it’s not a lottery. You and your daughter did a ton of work, but you weren’t buying lottery tickets based on sheer luck. You were strategizing and being smart about it, and it paid off. If she hadn’t had the right stuff to start with, yiu wouldn’t have “bought tickets” in the first place.

Best of luck to your daughter. So glad she’s got a great choice.

1584

Congrats to this family- Kevin has been a good-natured poster and commentator throughout, even when he got advice he didn’t agree with.

Just want to put out there for those of you reading this asking “but what do families do where the parents DO NOT have the time or the bandwidth or the knowledge to be as involved as Kevin was… does my kid end up folding sweaters at the Gap because she doesn’t have a parent to do the massive amount of legwork and coaching that Kevin did?”

No. Your kid likely won’t be able to apply to quite so many schools, or strategize such an involved and lengthy process without at least one grownup to keep the wheels from falling off the bus. But a kid as talented as Kevin’s D can do just as well with a smaller set of schools (well chosen, of course) and many fewer moving parts. I’ve seen kids navigate the entire process themselves (single parent who does not speak English, or never went to college) and it can also work itself out. Fewer colleges, fewer application fees to pay, much less complexity. The key is the rock bottom financial safety with automatic merit, especially if it’s rolling admissions so you’ve got a great admit BEFORE all the other pricey applications are due AND spreading out beyond your own geographical region. What is ho-hum in NY could be extraordinary in Alabama, and what is “so what” in Austin, Texas is something unusual in rural Maine.

Kevin’s D- you rock! And Kevin- wow. Hat’s off to you.

1585

Kevin, are you for hire? Kidding! Great job. Thank you.

1586

Just want to clarify that Kevin was looking for merit awards…big merit awards. The net price calculators aren’t good at predicting the recipients of big competitive merit awards like the McNair that his daughter received. That is because…these competitive awards often involve an interview process, and the NPC can’t predict who will rise to the top.

But for need based aid and auto merit…do the net price calculators. Even @KevinFromOC has to admit that for need based aid only, these were pretty accurate for him…with the exception of Johns Hopkins which considered a special circumstance.

But congratulations to this young woman. I’m looking forward to hearing about her time at South Carolina. She is going to be great.

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1587

OP was terrific to go through all of this with DD…and us! Thank you, so very much.

Just a few comments : for the many students , families and interested bystanders wanting to help, but who cannot go through this gauntlet, the very basic tenet should be addressed first. OP has that base covered in that his DD was almost certainly going to be accepted to an excellent school—a UC local to them, that is affordable as a commuter school. Once one finds such a school, it’s a matter of how much more one should search for the extras.

Actually, OP’s DD has a number of such schools. When talking about state flagships like Alabama, Kentucky, Nebraska etc, the sky is the limit in finding curriculums that will cover any difficulty level and provide academic challenges. These schools have the amenities as well. My son found everything he could possibly want at Alabama and Temole U, and both schools had automatic merit for his stats back when he was applying.

Looking instate, my son along with many NYers found that tuition could’ve covered if a STEM Major in top 10% of class, with certain conditions. We did not qualify for the Excelsior award , but that is an automatic free tuition opportunity. Always check out what goodies your state and local schools might have for your student. Public School GCs tend to excell in this area. They know what colleges in the area, in the state, have scholarships for their students. And in our case, DS picked his favorite out of that list, giving him 2 full rides, and 2 Tuition free schools in his list right off the bat.

From that point, it was a matter of finding schools he preferred to those 4. Threw in some selective schools, some he’d always wanted, some name schools , just to see. Some surprise outcomes from there. Tulane, which became his second choice school , awarded him a half ride with the opportunity to compete for a full one. Villanova has him in the running for the Presidential scholarship. Had we been constrained by cost, right there we had 4 Sure things, and 2 possibilities in terms of affordability.

The 4 other schools that were picked offered little , mostly nothing. In our case, the NPCs, told us we were not going to get any financial aid anywhere. Merit was the only way DS would get grants.

The NPCs can be very useful to students and families. It’s an early step to give many the reality check as to what various colleges, one’s state schools, OOS Schools, private schools are going to expect in payment. It’s a shock to many families who consider themselves middle class, upper middle class straining to make the bills each month, Have to face the fact that $50-70k is what schools expect you to contribute each year. It’s also daunting to realize that your top student may not get much merit money unless the search includes those schools that even offer it. The Ivies and a number of other schools give zero merit money. It was a bit of shock to my son who always harbored a live for Penn State U, that despite his excellent application , there wasn’t going to be much in the way of scholarships coming from there, and that he’d be lucky to get accepted to the most selective schoola, and getting a big scholarship from the few that have them is truly a lottery ticket.

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Alabama and Michigan State come to mind. I believe Northeastern was surprisingly “easy” as well.

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Iowa and Iowa State also is pretty straight forward and you find out fast. ISU also gives a good amount of money and usually cheaper then your local public.

1590

Thanks, I know that is a big part of it, but I really do believe there is a lot of randomness to this whole process, along with several things that you just can’t predict. Perhaps a hockey fan read her application. Maybe the school needed more Hispanic females in STEM (or didn’t need more). Judging by how much merit aid she was awarded, some schools seemed very interested in her (Rose Hulman), and seemingly similar schools didn’t (CSOM and WPI). You need to make educated guesses on which lottery tickets to buy, but in the end you won’t know for sure until you scratch off that last matching symbol!

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1591

Another issue is that many teenagers will not want to do all the work involved to apply to 20+ schools and go after these merit awards. Know your kid and whether or not they are either willing to do the work involved or could end up being stressed or resentful by this kind of process. What kind of school are they looking for, how far away from home do they want to be, etc. Still not sure after all this what the daughter’s and wife’s buy-in was to this as we have only heard the dad’s perspective, which seemed very influenced by financial concerns.

All the best to your daughter! She has great opportunities ahead of her at a great college!

1592

the combination of super-super high stats, female in stem, Latina, motivated to write essays and **most of all ** truly doesn’t care about prestige or location, is very rare in a college applicant.

I think your summary is spot on for your child’s journey - hopefully others who read this can glean how much the above factors make a difference. Just like you did (and I did), alot of people think that top 25 prestigious colleges will give you big merit scholarships ‘if they want you’. Doesn’t happen. Also, most kids really do care about prestige and location and THINK they are top students when they are just ‘average excellent’.

1593

Huge thanks to KevinFromOC. This is probably the most helpful thread I have ever read. You are so kind to give so much of your time and sharing of experiences.

1594

This forum conventional wisdom appears to be based on high income/wealth parents who can afford to pay list price at any college or university (who appear to be disproportionately represented on these forums), so the only concern is admission, rather than merit scholarships. Since (as you found) how merit scholarships are awarded is generally less transparent than how college admission is done (except for automatic-for-stats-or-NM scholarships), all merit scholarships (except for automatic-for-stats-or-NM scholarships) should be considered reaches. So a merit-scholarship-seeking student probably needs to apply to more colleges than a student merely seeking admission, unless s/he is satisfied with the colleges that have sufficiently-large automatic-for-stats-or-NM scholarships that s/he qualifies for.

1595

Also in many cases merit hunting parents on CC are looking for a $20K-$30K discount on a $70K-$80K list price, which is fairly common at second tier (and even low first tier) private schools. Sadly all too often those schools are recommended to parents with a much lower budget (as was seen in the early pages of this thread), which I suspect leads to wasted applications and disappointment.

This thread is instructive precisely because Kevin had a budget ($15K-$20K per year) which required a full tuition scholarship and stuck to that in targeting applications. Even the in-state public wasn’t a realistic option except as a commuter student.

Most students won’t have anything close to the attributes that made his D so special and resulted in such success. But it might be useful for some CC commenters to be aware of the schools that he decided weren’t worth applying to, which are frequently recommended in threads here to families that would never be able to afford to pay $40K-$50K per year. Maybe that should be added to the synopsis above?

Going back to the very first post, the tentative list at that point was “USC, Harvey Mudd, Franklin Olin, Colorado School of Mines, Rose Hulman, Virginia, Rochester, Boston University, Northeastern, Johns Hopkins, RPI, RIT, Georgia Tech, Vanderbilt, Stevens Inst. Of Tech, Miami Ohio, Ohio State, Illinois, Purdue, Maryland, Kentucky, and Arizona State”. Quite a few of those appear to fall into the insufficient and/or unreasonably competitive merit category (RPI, RIT, NEU, BU, Virginia, etc) and I suspect get a lot of pointless applications as a result.

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1596

I agree with this @KevinFromOC : “I really do believe there is a lot of randomness to this whole process, along with several things that you just can’t predict.”

There’s certainly some luck involved, but only if the rest is already there. I agree that if a longtime hockey fan read her app, that’s going to be a bonus in her favor.

There is an infamous anecdote, probably an urban myth, about an admissions officer who once threw a very strong app in the reject pile for a really stupid reason. I believe it was something like the officer got food poisoning at an Italian restaurant the night before and the applicant had an Italian surname. There are probably similar stories about AO’s accepting kids for similar reasons. The human element definitely comes into play.

1597

The thing I like best about this thread is the OP and his daughter had a rough plan to “apply wide”, got information from others, incorporated it and continued on their path. The best part is, —the know it alls and nay sayers— were respected in the conversation.
OP was actually pretty patient with some folks beyond what was reasonable. He’s been such a great role model for others. I hope that his daughter loves her choice. I think we can see where his daughter gets her work ethic. Man,@kevinfromoC you are setting the bar very very high for other parents. Love it.

1598

For people in the “high stats needing full tuition merit scholarships because need based aid won’t cut it” category, @KevinFromOC ’s summary is spot on. We had the same budget. Our kids weren’t quite as crazy high stats, but still the process is accurate. It’s can be a lot of work. One of mine wanted an LAC. Full tuition awards are few and far between at those, but not impossible to find. Ten applications, many more essays, Three spring trips for scholarship weekends, and the result was one affordable school where she was awarded that big scholarship. She graduated from that school last year. My other kid targeted both automatic and competitive awards, and has her degree from the competitive scholarship school. It takes extra work to find the schools that offer the awards, some guessing, a lot of essay writing and time on applications, and the willingness to step back from prestige and walk away from insufficient offers, but it does work.

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1599

If from CA: UC Santa Barbara has an excellent COE and Chemical Engineering. I would definitely consider adding to the list; And, agree also with recommendation about Cal Poly.

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@parentjunior17

Have you read this thread? The OPs daughter has accepted an offer of admission to University of South Carolina as a McNair Scholar this year.

I don’t think they are looking to add any schools.