<p>My son is one who turned down Oberlin and Wesleyan for Vassar. He visited Swarthmore early on because it was on his sister's original list; they both disliked it immensely. Consequently, it was the one tour that we left early. </p>
<p>However, one of my daughter's best friends is extremely happy at Swarthmore.</p>
<p>And Vassar is my son's jewel. I think he fell in love the first time we visited ... big flakes of snow were coming down softly on the beautiful backdrop of a campus. We felt like we were in the magic of a snow globe. Many other visits proved that Vassar is beautiful not only in the snow, but also in the rain ... and of course it's just glorious in the sunshine.</p>
<p>The Vassar campus is certainly stunning and the library is like a temple of learning. We also saw it in a fluffy snowstorm--just gorgeous! And I know it's a great school academically. Along with Haverford, it struck us as one of the warmer, friendlier schools in the NE.</p>
<p>And the grounds at Swarthmore are totally beautiful--too many leaves, mythmom--that's priceless! I know several alums--all of them good people and brilliant, but few who are relaxing to be around. I was glad my son's best friend picked Middlebury instead because I was concerned he might work himself sick in that pressured environment.</p>
<p>Ah twinmom: DS chose Vassar when DD was looking. For some reason, she did not. He spent two years developing a relationship with the wonderful orchestra conductor and visiting the really beautiful stone music building. And then.....one chance visit to Williams fell in love.</p>
<p>I am still sad I can't go to see him on Vassar's campus and be in the library. </p>
<p>Williams is really lovely too, but I do get get attached to things.</p>
<p>I think that's the point. If students are lucky enough to be admitted to many schools they like, and there is a way to pay for it, it will be the student's choice.</p>
<p>I probably would have chosen Smith. DD chose Barnard, and it was absolutely the right choice for her. I had Smith sadness for a while.</p>
<p>Trust your child.</p>
<p>However, I must say bethie does do a good job of making me wish DS was at Grinnell with her S. I am positive they would be friends. However S did not want to go so far away, so this is a silly daydream.</p>
<p>(Bethie, kidding somewhat. I'm just one of those people always getting crushes and falling in love.)</p>
<p>As someone alluded to, LACs tend to have more distinct personalities than larger schools, just because of size and intimacy. That's why it is difficult for us to give the OP good advice about limiting the list - it is just impossible to predict how any kid, even your own, is going to respond to a given school.
Similar LACs share some tendencies, but can be quite different in other ways - every student has their own ranking of what is important to them. Sometimes very different LACs can end up on the same child's list, because of specific things that they offer.</p>
<p>Another point to throw into the mix - kids change as they go through the process, especially as the prospect of going to college becomes more and more real, rather than abstract. My D embraced LACs from the very beginning, but ended up going ED at a school that was twice the size of the rest of her favorite choices. Today, as a college junior, I think she thinks that little extra bit of size is a positive, although I think she would have been happy at the smallest LAC as well, but for different reasons.</p>
<p>With a lot of geographic distance as the OP has, I don't think there is any problem with visiting as much as is practical, then putting off some visits until after acceptances - the list may completely rearrange itself.</p>
<p>My son looked at a combination of LACs and larger schools. After visiting campuses he eliminated several right off the bat. Then, when it came time to chose from the acceptances he received, and when he looked very carefully at the course offerings in his prospective double major, he realized he would run out of math and physics classes at the LACs, and ultimately chose a small university with graduate course offerings. This was definitely the right choice for him, as he is very driven, will be pursuing a Ph.D., and had already taken math/physics at the local university while a high school student. He just had not thought it all the way through when visiting/applying to colleges.</p>
<p>With regard to isolation, it's all a matter of degree. Grinnell to Des Moines is 54 miles and 54 minutes and Northfield to Minneapolis is 44 miles and 49 minutes per Mapquest. I certainly agree that Minneapolis trumps Des Moines, but both are cities and that's certainly not a material difference in travel time. Grinnell has a free shuttle that goes to either the Cedar Rapids or Des Moines airports.</p>
<p>I think the day-to-day reality is that living in each feels rural, particularly if you don't have a car.</p>
<p>In round numbers, Northfield has about double the population of Grinnell - 20,000 vs. 10,000. But by my definition, they both qualify as quaint small towns. Of course, we visited each not long after trips to Ann Arbor and UChicago.</p>
<p>Remember, Northfield's motto is "Cows, Colleges and Contentment" proudly displayed on the "Welcome to Northfield" sign.</p>
<p>Also, I also think Matharap makes a great point about the availablity of graduate level classes, and one that didn't even occur to me until after DS had enrolled at Michigan. He is now on a math track that will allow him to take graduate level classes his junior year, and I'm not sure he could have gotten that at the LAC's he was considering.</p>
<p>The shuttles to the airports may once have been free, but they aren't anymore. I don't want to downplay the travel considerations. Winter weather is very iffy on both sides of my son's "commute" and there are no direct flights from anywhere in VT to anywhere in IA. It's not a non-issue, just not a big enough one for us to over-ride academic and social fit.</p>
<p>I don't think the winter weather would be any better in Minnesota, which is what I was comparing it to. Grinnell should change their website - it still says free:(Visiting</a> Campus - Directions to Campus) But maybe that free shuttle is only for prospies. </p>
<p>I was curious about this flight issue, so I took a quick look at the best you can do - time wise. You can fly from Des Moines to Burlington with one stop in Detroit - total time 4 hr 35 min. From Minneapolis to Burlington you stop in Chicago - total time 4 hr 5 min.</p>
<p>Now if you live in a major city where you can get direct flights from/to Minneapolis, then travel certainly makes a difference. But if you live out in the boonies (like me), it really doesn't make much difference because most flight have to go through some major hub before they get to me anyway.</p>
<p>As has been said numerous times on this thread, LACs have their own personalities and it is important that the school is a good "fit" for the particular student. I feel compelled to comment about my daughter's experience at Swarthmore, since several posters have characterized the school as too intense, with students who are too serious, study all the time, intellectually pretentious, not happy, etc. (These may not be the exact words used above so forgive me for paraphrasing.) My daughter transferred to Swarthmore as a sophomore after a rather unhappy freshman year at an excellent LAC which did not turn out to be the best place for her, and Swarthmore turned out to be a great school for her.</p>
<p>My daughter is very serious about her studies, an extremely hard worker, and a person who is interested in learning for learning's sake, not just to get the grade, but she is also an extremely social, outgoing, and fun-loving kid. She had the most wonderful experience at Swarthmore last year - she met the nicest group of friends and they had so much fun. Additionally, her advisor and the other professors and staff took a personal interest in her, and she feels that she has many people to whom she can turn for advice about course selection, independent work, internships, career choices, etc. She worked very hard but I don't think her workload was any heavier than at her first LAC, which also has excellent professors and rigorous academics. (I do think the grading curve at Swarthmore is stricter than at other schools.) My daughter has just returned from a semester abroad and is very excited about returning to Swarthmore in a few weeks. </p>
<p>So, I encourage others to check Swarthmore out for themselves to see if it might be a good place for them or for their child. My daughter's experiences and impressions are very different than those of some of the posters on this thread.</p>
<p>I think this is exactly the point here--it is highly individualistic. One kid gags at Bates, another at Swat, another at Grinnell or Carleton--whatever. It's the fit. They are all incredible schools.</p>
<p>MotherofTwo: So happy your D found her home. And who knows. If DS had ended up there, perhaps he would have loved it too. The grading curve at Williams is almost as bad. (Boalt score 89.5 to 89.0. Nos. 1 & 2 -- difficulty of getting an A.)</p>
<p>I think fit is a real consideration. I don't think kids can always tell, but as with everything else, we do the best we can.</p>
<p>And some factors are elusive, like the kids who happen to matriculate that year, or which professors are on leave, and what dorm you get put into. S loves his entry which is part of his great satisfaction with Williams. Could have been different. Same for D. Lucky enough to make really good friends on her hall. Could also have been different.</p>
<p>
[quote]
My daughter is very serious about her studies, an extremely hard worker, and a person who is interested in learning for learning's sake, not just to get the grade, but she is also an extremely social, outgoing, and fun-loving kid. She had the most wonderful experience at Swarthmore last year - she met the nicest group of friends and they had so much fun. Additionally, her advisor and the other professors and staff took a personal interest in her, and she feels that she has many people to whom she can turn for advice about course selection, independent work, internships, career choices, etc.
[/quote]
I think it's terrific that so many of us can say this about our S/D's choice!</p>
<p>I normally don't like to say negative things about particular colleges, but my daughter and I were totally turned off by Vassar when we visited it. Many posters rave about how wonderful the school is, so I assume that if we had a different tour guide, admissions speaker, etc., our impression would have been very different.</p>
<p>MotherOfTwo: That's what makes horse racing, as they say! I agree that it could have been the tour guide, speaker, etc. ... or it just may have not felt right to you and your child. Fortunately, there are so many great schools that most students wind up finding a great fit. I'm glad that your daughter was able to do so at Swarthmore. It is a fantastic school.</p>
<p>Visiting all these beautiful campuses did make me nostalgic about my college years and I actually got in touch with several of my classmates. Of course, I only dredged up the good memories!</p>
<p>If there were fewer great options, I'd probably have urged my son to take second looks at some he had the immediate turn-offs to, but since he started with a field of 20, he needed to eliminate a bunch anyway. Some posters think the fit thing is a bunch of hooey, but I'm a believer and I think my son did a great job of figuring out what was important to him and then finding his best match.</p>
<p>While this may not matter to some kids, checking out the travel time is important, especially for rural schools. Yes it's true that Grinnell and Williams are an "easy" hour away from the airport -- but when you add that hour to the 4-6 hours in the air, the travel time to the airport on the home end, getting to the airport 1-2 hours before the flight -- and then adding another 1-2 hours into the mix because you may have to wait for the shuttle and life happens -- anyway, it's worth making sure the kid doesn't mind spending a day traveling.</p>
<p>We didn't visit Swarthmore, but our Vassar visit was memorable. It is a beautiful campus -- I remember thinking the school has money. Our tourguide was incredibly enthusiastic, and finally someone asked him for something negative to say. He couldn't think of anything. Then someone asked what type of kid would not be happy at Vassar. He responded -- absolutely no one, everyone would love it here. That's when I disagreed: A kid who wants to be in an urban area and a kid who likes the anonymity of large lectures, for example, may not be happy at Vassar. He had to concede that in actuality, Vassar may not be for everyone.</p>
<p>Grinnell is unique and worth considering. Of note, it has the 3rd highest endowment/student in the country. One of the founders of Intel is an alum and Warren Buffet managed their endowment for years. The academics and facilities are excellent. It is in a small Iowa town, and I think this is the only reason its acceptance rates are above peer schools. It is between Des Moines and Cedar Rapids.</p>