Looking for Cell Bio. programs

<p>I'm currently a sophomore starting to search for graduate programs in cell and molecular biology, specifically with faculty working within the context of development and cell differentiation. I'm mostly interested in working with mammalian models, but I won't dismiss programs that have greater emphasis on drosophila or other models. Currently I'm looking at a few programs pulled from a blog listing top 100 cell bio. programs (2007 NRC rankings) including:<br>
UMass
U of Delaware
U of Pittsburgh
Colorado State U
U of Kentucky</p>

<p>I'm looking for middle of the road programs; schools that won't be as selective as the top 20-50 but still relatively strong in research with large body of active faculty and students. I know their are many schools that I haven't considered simply because their are so many. Which is why I need some outside help. So if you have any suggestions for schools of similar caliber or less than the ones I've listed I would love to hear about them.</p>

<p>Why are you looking at “middle of the road” programs? I would really suggest aiming higher if possible (better funding, facilities, caliber of research tends to be higher so that you publish more/bigger impact journals, which helps with getting a postdoc, career, faculty positions, better connections/networking. etc etc.). If you are planning this far ahead, you have time to put together a good app.</p>

<p>I’m looking at “middle of the road” (god I hope that didn’t come off as condescending as it sounds) programs because I had a very rocky start to college (like many people here). I had two semesters with <2.0 gpa, several failing grades, 4 changes of major, and academic suspension for a semester. I have, however, made an amazing turn around and am working very hard to recover my gpa. Unfortunately the highest gpa I could hope for by graduation would be a 3.3. Maybe I’m wrong but I have a hard time believing an admission committee would overlook the suspension and other aspects of my tumultuous academic career.</p>

<p>Yes - coming straight out of undergrad, you probably would have a hard time finding acceptance at a top program, but you could tech for a year(s) before applying, thus putting distance between you and your rocky college start. I guess it’s a cost/benefit analysis: go straight from undergrad to an okay grad school or wait to apply, work a couple years and potentially go to good grad school (which could have a significant impact on your career). Work your absolute hardest to have that GPA as high as it can be and at the very least, above a 3.0 when you graduate.</p>

<p>You should never settle for “okay” grad schools, in my opinion.</p>

<p>Why should you never settle for OK grad schools?</p>

<p>Thank you for the advice, LAC. I’m definitely going to consider all of my options before deciding which schools to apply to. Working as a tech for an extra year while maybe taking a couple of postgrad classes could be a great asset to my application. </p>

<p>I don’t think there is anything wrong with aiming for OK programs. Not everyone can attend to most prestigious schools. Some people are not as starry-eyed and have more realistic expectations for themselves. Although, nothing wrong with being starry-eyed either, I might add.</p>

<p>I don’t know about their cell bio programs, but UMass and Pitt are not “middle of the road” for many biomedical science programs. They may be more competitive than you think.</p>

<p>You’re probably right, momwaitingfornew. I admittedly don’t know much about school rankings. I based my knowledge off of a list I stumbled upon while searching for rankings. I’ll post the link if it’s allowed.
[Top</a> Universities in Cell Biology | Good University Ranking Guide](<a href=“http://whichuniversitybest.blogspot.com/2009/07/top-universities-in-cell-biology.html]Top”>Top Universities in Cell Biology | Good University Ranking Guide)</p>

<p>Do you think this is an accurate list? Are there better resources for comparing admissions competitiveness?</p>

<p>Also, I’m interested in pure biology, rather than biomedical science (although there may be some overlap between programs at some schools).</p>

<p>For rankings that are tailored to your own weighted criteria, try <a href=“http://graduate-school.phds.org/rankings[/url]”>http://graduate-school.phds.org/rankings&lt;/a&gt;. (Note: I couldn’t check the link because the site seems to be down right now. You may have to use plain phds.org without the prefix and suffix.) The only problem is that these rankings tend to be more general than most people want. For example, it may rank biological sciences but not cell bio programs. And it won’t touch rankings for subfields within cell bio.</p>

<p>And you’re right that the biomedical sciences are different from pure bio, since the former is often located within a medical school.</p>

<p>Thanks for the suggestion. I’ll check the site later when it’s up.</p>

<p>That blog is wrong. NRC rankings were last released in 1995 (not 2007), with data being from 1993. Obviously, a lot has changed in 17 years. A new, long overdue ranking from the NRC is due at the end of this month, 2010.</p>

<p>So, looking at grad schools, if you can, you should find a school with as many labs that interest you as possible. First, look at the faculty at the schools you are targeting and see if they are doing research you would be interested in doing for five years. Just as important, check to see if they are well funded (use the NIH CRISP search) and publishing (e.g. check Pubmed to make sure it hasn’t been 3 years since their last publication…ideally they should have multiple research, not review article, publications most years). See who is publishing in high impact journals in the field. </p>

<p>Rankings are mostly meaningless for PhD grad programs in bioscience, and you should already be aware of what the quality “name” ones are just by already being in your research field… and you should be…you should have some substantial undergrad research experience (some sort of authorship is ideal, but at least presented posters). Research experience is more important than GPA or GREs, although poor scores can make your application fall in the discard pile in the immediate weed out process. However, what gets you in once you land an admissions interview is your demonstrated interest and ability in research, and if you have poor scores that raise questions for them, then your research is even more important. If you don’t have these things, then the above suggestion about being a research tech for a year or two is an excellent idea.</p>

<p>Anyway, outside of top “name” schools, like the Ivies, Hopkins etc that might carry some name cache, the place you get a PhD won’t matter nearly as much as the lab/mentor you end up with and the actual quality of research you conduct there. And as of now, you must assume you will do a post-doc for several years, whether you want to stay in academia afterwards or not. Therefore, in the end, a good post-doc is actually more important than where you do grad school. Your grad school will have little impact on where you do your post-doc, honestly, it comes down to your research and your mentor’s connections. It is just that these higher profile places also tend to have a larger number of high profile, prolific faculty, but there are great people at the forefront of fields at almost every school. I’m repeating myself, but the most important thing will be the lab you are doing research in, and things like the collaborative nature of the particular department, not the name of the school. In fact, since you have an interest in cell development & differentiation, you could end up in programs other than straight cell bio ones (like neuroscience or an interdisciplinary program etc., there are multiple choices to look at).</p>

<p>That said, and I’ve posted this before, one of the best ways to get an basic overview on the quality and scale of bioscience research at any university is to look at their NIH funding levels. The top ten, in order, are Harvard, Johns Hopkins, Penn, UCSF, Pitt, Michigan, Washington (Seattle), UCLA, Duke, and Washington U St. Louis. I don’t know what their admissions selectivity is for their cell biology PhD program, but Pitt is definitely not middle of the road in any biosciences, not that it means you shouldn’t try applying there if it has labs that are doing research that stick out to you.</p>

<p>You shouldn’t settle for grad school because the training you receive there, much more than undergraduate education, is a predictor of future success. “Okay” and good schools both have faculty that can provide quality training for your PhD, but “okay” schools have less of them.</p>

<p>“Settling” is relative. Not everyone has the profile to gain entry into a top program. I do think that an applicant should stretch himself by applying to a few schools he believes might be out of reach, but he should also be realistic about his chances.</p>

<p>Thank you for the thorough response, wgmpc101. I’m going to stop looking at rankings when considering schools from now on. It’s too controversial to bother factoring into my decision. Like you said, ultimately it will matter more who my mentor is and what kind of research I do as a phd student, and even more so as a post doc. Now I just need to figure out how to get some research experience. I think I’ll ask my adviser about that next month when I see him to discuss my next semester schedule.</p>

<p>If you have to “be realistic,” then I would much rather not attend grad school immediately and improve my profile instead until it is suitable for gaining entry into top programs. Your grad school choice should unequivocally be “not settling,” on both a relative AND absolute scale.</p>

<p>I suppose you’re right. If I have the option to withhold my application until I’m better qualified for the program that is the best fit for me, and will offer me the best opportunities in terms of research and postdoc positions, then by all means I should wait. Thanks for your input.</p>

<p>I applaud your maturity. If you wait forever to start grad school, you may never go. I took four years to work in industry and as a tech before grad school and each time a birthday rolls around I question the opportunity cost of my time between college and grad school</p>

<p>You might find that there are great labs at schools that are not super competitive. CSU is an awful choice but there are certain areas of strength eg flaviviral pathogenesis, chromatin etc. Find labs you would be really happy in and eliminate the departments that you feel are too competitive, or better yet, find labs you like and apply without regard to perceived difficulty of acceptance</p>

<p>porkforce, if possible, I wouldn’t even wait until next semester to start getting involved in a lab. I don’t know what type of school you are at, but supposing there is some research going on there, look on your school’s website for descriptions of the faculty and their research, and then directly contact those faculty members to explain your interests and how you are interested in their work… and ask if there is someway to meet with them to find out more about them and their lab. This is a great way to get started and seek out some sort of entry level volunteering just to start getting a feel for what goes on in a lab setting. Even if it is only a couple hours a week this semester, it will allow you to jump into something faster next semester when you budget more time for it.</p>

<p>Another thing about grad schools rankings, your training won’t vary much depending on where you are. It’s all mostly the same. PhDs in bioscience are not the same as law or business schools where name is important or a barometer of future success. 90% of your learning will come things you do in your home lab, which is why it is important to find good labs and mentors much more so than name schools. For instance, Harvard has a top name in everything right? but based on its reputation for cutthroat, overstressed, non-collaborative bioscience departments, I’d never actually recommend it to a student unless there was a particular lab that they really wanted to work in.</p>

<p>Get some lab experience and figure out what direction of research you want to head in, keep an eye on the labs in that general direction, and shoot for training programs where those labs reside.</p>

<p>Finding lab work is something I’ve been thinking about. I was thinking I would wait until I was at least finished with gen. chem. I&II before seeking out volunteer work, though. I don’t think I would be of much benefit to a lab at the moment. Another benchmark I would like to have reached before volunteering would be getting my GPA above 3.0. That should give me enough time to meet more faculty and prove my commitment. This, I think, will make getting a lab position easier, and more natural, than emailing a stranger out of the blue asking about research and lab work. Also, I think this would make letting me volunteer seem like less of a risk to the PI. Thanks for the advice, wgmpc101, and yes, I probably won’t be applying to Harvard, either. </p>

<p>Belevitt, were you able to get into a good school, or, rather, the school you were hoping to get into? How did working after undergrad affect your chances of getting into a good school? Did the admission committee look favorably upon this, or were they initially dubious?</p>