I think, like many, OP knows the main three - UVA, W&M, Va Tech. If you read back to the beginning, was very ranking/name focused - at least initially.
I think OOS is fine - if they choose schools within budget.
OP is hopefully running a net price calculator but of course theyâre not easy and being the first time may need assistance.
No, he did not mention CMU. I simply used it as an extreme example of what math SAT schools are required by top CompSci schools.
2 Likes
But OP is not looking for pricey private schools like CMU. They said:
3 Likes
Right, CMU was not mentioned and likely outside the budget. Also, not a school that has the vibe some kids want.
Virginia has great schools, so focusing on some of them (the less selective) or merit outside of Virginia could be a good idea.
2 Likes
Not sure about CS specifics, but my class of 26 has similarities in residency, schools to which applied and starting SAT scores, so I will relate some of our experience in case it is worth your consideration. We are in-state in VA and generally not eligible for need-based financial aid tuition discounts /grants for expenses under $40K. We started with around your SAT scores but with ~ 30-40 hrs of test prep raised scores 130 pts. (Thank you PrepscholarâŠworth the investment for the tuition merit aid discounts).
Aside from any childâs record of things within his/her control, it is worth considering the factors he/she canât control and how to leverage them (like state residency, sex, parentsâ income, residence proximity to urban centers, whether the college is need blind, mid-level liberal arts colleges desperation for students due to a shrinking eligible demographic, etc.) I explained to my kid that my perspective is that admissions is a racket, and one should not evaluate oneself based on admissions to variously competitive schools, because the student record is only one factor of many factors (not in the studentâs control) that go into the decisions.
We were generally not eligible for need-based financial aid tuition discounts /grants for expenses under $40K. We started with around your SAT scores but with ~ 30-40 hrs of test prep raised scores 130 pts. (Thank you PrepscholarâŠworth the investment for the tuition merit aid discounts).
I might consider transfer from community college where a building a good GPA and the right courses guarantee transfer (versus a one or two sitting testing situation), extra-curriculars matter little, one benefits from small class attention the first two years, one has the opportunity to learn from not just 18-22 year olds, and tuition is much cheaper. Depending on what he wants to do in CS, it might be worth considering how many students have dropped out of college or pursued it part-time later to instead focus on certifications early as a cheaper, more practical option.
If you are concerned about the social opportunity, I would look at honors colleges in schools that will discount his tuition for merit and give him special perks including early registration to classes so that he gets what he needs to graduate in 4 years. (Lower tuition matters less if you are having to stay an extra year or two to get the classes you need to graduate.)
Also please be aware that even without yearly tuition hikes, a UVA 1st year (freshman) tuition is lower tuition than 3rd year (junior) tuition (not controlled for financial aid). Tuition in later years also varies among schools/majors.
Wake Forest - wait-listed with tons of others (they had a huge list)âŠmy guess: yield protection outweighed admittance of a family without deep pockets but with limited financial aid need. ( I donât think they are need blind, and I think we were disadvantaged coming from VA because they are very aware of the math of "Why on earth would an in-state middle class or upper middle class VA kid pay private tuition costs in NC when he could get into UVA, W&L, and W&M with in-state or lower tuition?)
UNC Chapel Hill - denied (More competitive coming from out-of-state and even if it wasnât, there again, yield protect? Why would this student come to us and pay OOS at UNC when you can pay in-state at UVA? or less at W&L? This application was the kidâs idea, not mineâŠseemed a bad bet from the start.)
W&M - accepted right away early action
UVA - accepted early action
University of Texas - Dallas -accepted right away regular decision with merit scholarship that brought the cost down within your budget and close to but less than in-state UVA rate, much less than W&M, not as good as W&L (I think they knew they likely had to beat his UVA and W&M in-state tuition options.) We did not apply to Austin because a Texas friend warned us about homeless encampments on campusâŠnot sure if that is still the case.
Good luck.
2 Likes
FYI, all VA CCs have guaranteed transfer agreements with all VA public colleges and many private. Each school has its own gpa requirements for the guaranteed transfer.
Of course, CCs are not residential except for the one mentioned (that I know of) but a transfer to UVA, VT, and W&M are guaranteed for all of them.
2 Likes
Just to add⊠if you go that route, get with a counselor at the CC early. UVA and W&M do not have (at least two years ago) the same ITE requirement (118 vs 115). Also UVA has a very specific foreign language requirement, not only on course but course timing and context (DE vs not DE) requirement that will need to be considered.
Look at George Mason, a R1 Carnegie institution
3 Likes
Has your son visited any college campuses? Does he know if he has any size preferences (whether to the number of undergrads on campus or to the size of his classes)? Depending on the response, admission to a schoolâs honors college (particularly at the larger schools) may be an important factor for him.
Also, are you from northern Virginia or elsewhere in the state? That can have definite implications on your likelihood for acceptance at the Virginia public universities.
As others have said, your family is extraordinarily fortunate to have so many excellent in-state options. These are some of your in-state options that I would delve into further, beyond the three youâve mentioned:
- Christopher Newport: About 4500 undergrads, sticker about $28k
- George Mason: About 27k undergrads, sticker about $27k
- James Madison: About 20k undergrads, sticker about $25k
- Old Dominion: About 19k undergrads, sticker around $25k
- U. of Mary Washington: About 3700 undergrads, sticker around $26k
- Virginia Commonwealth: About 21k undergrads, sticker around $28k
If your son would like to go out-of-state, these are some other publics he might want to investigate:
- New Jersey Institute of Technology: About 9k undergrads, sticker around $50k
- North Carolina A&T: This HBCU has about 12k undergrads, sticker around $30k
- Towson (MD): About 18k undergrads, sticker around $40k
- U. of Delaware: About 19k undergrads, sticker around $52k
- U. of Maryland â Baltimore County: About 11k undergrads, sticker around $43k
- U. of North Carolina â Charlotte: About 24k undergrads, sticker around $34k
- West Chester (PA ): About 14k undergrads, sticker around $37k
- West Virginia: About 20k undergrads, sticker around $39k
If your son is looking for a smaller college experience, then he may want to investigate these schools (and I suspect heâd receive significant merit aid at the private schools):
- Allegheny (PA ): About 1600 undergrads, sticker around $68k
- Drew (NJ): About 1600 undergrads, sticker around $61k
- Moravian (PA ): About 1900 undergrads, sticker around $65k
- UNC â Asheville: About 3200 undergrads, sticker around $35k
One other school that he might want to think about is Drexel (PA ). This school is similar to U. of Cincinnati and Northeastern because it places a very strong emphasis on co-ops. So your son would get a lot of experience, paid, while at this school. Additionally, most students here receive merit aid. If heâs interested in might be worth an application to see if the price works out.
Also, I indicate âstickerâ price because most schools (especially private) offer merit aid to try and attract students to their programs. I only listed schools where I thought your son had a reasonable, though not assured, chance at getting the school within budget. And as @tsbna mentioned, some schools like West Virginia are assured to meet your price point.
2 Likes
Youâve gotten a lot of good suggestions, so now Iâm going to suggest a thought exercise for sorting/culling the long list of possibilities.
So far, what Iâm hearing is that he would be happy to attend any of the âtop 3â VA publics, but isnât terribly interested in the rest. What I think would be useful is to consider, if he had to attend a VA public other than the Big 3, what would he choose? I think it would be helpful to get specific and narrow down to a single top choice or at least down to two front-runners if there really isnât a clear favorite. I seriously doubt heâll get turned down anywhere but UVA/W&M/VT. So, where would he choose, of the rest? Richard Bland, to get a residential experience from day one and a guaranteed transfer to any of the top 3? VCU for an urban school with solid CS? Christopher Newport for smaller? JMU for a great, traditional campus with solid academics across the board? George Mason, with slightly higher stats than JMU (although that could just reflect a larger proportion of STEM majors, vs the STEM students actually being stronger - I really donât know), largest public U in VA, historically a commuter school but now requiring freshmen to live on campus?
If he can bring his in-state safety into focus, that will help to filter the many OOS options, because it will be easier to look at, letâs arbitrarily say, NJIT and say, âNah, why would I go there over (also arbitrarily) George Mason?â or âAbsolutely - if I canât have the Big 3, get me to Newark where I can be surrounded by STEM students and go into NYC on the weekends!â or âThat depends - Iâd pick NJIT if I got into the residential honors college and got enough merit to make it cheaper than my in-state favorite (which is possible but not guaranteed), but I wouldnât pay more for it.â Itâs a lot easier to make these head-to-head comparisons and decide what to throw out and what to keep in consideration, if youâre comparing to something tangible and not to a nebulous âsomething else in VA but really nothing appeals.â Make a spreadsheet and assign each non-VA school that remains in consideration a price point that it would have to make to stay in contention. Then you can assess the likelihood of an offer that meets that price point, and rank the options in order of preference, and a list of where to apply should start to become clearer.
As for your in-state strategy, I think your best odds would come from the ED strategy I mentioned earlier: plan on ED to VT and ED2 (if needed) to W&M, or if he prefers W&M to VT, go all-in with ED1 to W&M. I would absolutely not hold back on the binding ED applications to these two schools, based on hopes of getting into UVA. I think UVA is sufficiently unlikely that it would be unwise to forego the ED advantage at the other two.
At W&M, you donât choose a major until sophomore year, so you donât need to strategize about majors. At VT, youâll need to do some research and consider options. I expect that his odds of getting in would be higher as a math or stats major than for CS, but would it be worth the compromise? Would he still be able to take CS classes (some would be included for stats, but maybe not as many as heâd like to take), or would they be impossible to get into as a non-major? Are any other alternatives with a computation component (Business Information Technology, Computational & Systems Neuroscience, Computational Modeling & Data Analytics, Computer Engineering, Environmental Data Science, Fintech & Big Data Analytics, Smart & Sustainable Cities) appealing, and are the ones that appeal actually any easier to get into than CS? (A new thread in the VT forum might come to the attention of folks who can help with this analysis; I personally have no idea.) If he looks at the whole range of possibilities and concludes that CS is it for him, then he shouldnât compromise - as tsbna likes to say, desired major trumps desired school. But sometimes kids who like computers and programming just assume that CS is it, because theyâre less aware of the other alternatives, so itâs worth exploring.
But I do think he needs to break through the âI donât want to think about the prospect of VA schools other than UVA/W&M/VTâ barrier and figure out where he can see himself, out of all the other good in-state options. Then youâll have a better idea where to set the bar in terms of OOS alternatives.
6 Likes
We are not eligible for need based aid. Just ran across this UVA wise , is that an entirely different school from the regular UVA ?
CMU = Carnegie Mellon. Or Central Michigan. The first wonât make cost. The second - likely would - but thatâs not what they meant. They meant the first.
When you have a $40K budget but qualify for no need - thatâs when you have to find schools either in state or with aggressive merit. And many schools mentioned likely wouldnât get you there. Note - UVA isnât that expensive in state so maybe you have need for other schools that are more expensive. Did you run net price calculators?
You either go in-state, to schools out of your desired geography (i.e. South), or to schools with a less prestigious name - although that doesnât mean theyâre not good.
SUNY Binghamton might be a good compromise here. Clearly U Maine would be.
And all your in state schools and you have great ones.
Visited UVA, George Mason and have scheduled virtual tour for W&M and VT.
We live Richmond area , Virginia.
Thank you for the suggestions,
UVA will be a reach.
2 Likes
UVA-Wise is a different school in Wise County VA not Charlottesville.
Quick Facts | UVA Wise)%20for%20admission%20is%203.42.
Enrollment Statistics
- Current Enrollment: 2,021 students
- Male-to-Female Enrollment Ratio: 1:1.7
College Admission Statistics
- UVA Wise is moderately selective and university admission is offered on a rolling basis.
- The average freshman admitted has SAT scores of 487 Verbal and 480 Math.
- The average high school grade point average (GPA) for admission is 3.42.
I think Purdue will be a pretty big reach school. Definitely keep it on your list if your son really likes it, as itâs a great school. But, I saw kids with close to 4.0 unweighted GPAs and test scores in the high 1400s get rejected for CS this year.
Definitely apply Early Action to any school that offers it! Or, for rolling admission schools, apply as early as possible. Many state schools will fill up their classes early, either through rolling admission or through early action, leaving very few spots for later in the admissions cycle or during regular admissions.
What did he think of the visits? Did he like the campus sizes? The vibe? The number of students? Did it give any kind of clarity on what kind of college he might prefer? You might also want to visit U. of Richmond in-town as itâd be a convenient visit and it might give him a sense of how he likes a smaller campus (though Richmond is about 3k undergrads, and other small schools are even smaller) in comparison with his visits to UVA and George Mason.
You can check out the Purdue Data Digest, here: https://www.purdue.edu/datadigest/. If you look at the links for âApplications, Admits, and Matriculationsâ and âNew First-time Beginner Profile,â you will see some interactive programs which should allow you/your son to compare his statistics to those students who were admitted to Purdue, and thus get an estimate of his chances for admission. As an OOS student, your son will not be able to get below $40K per year at Purdue, however.
1 Like
Staying in state is his best option for keeping the cost in your range. I would have a frank and honest conversation with him about finances now. Consider ED to one of the in-state schools if they are at the top of his preferred schools. UVA is the longest shot, WM& VT will be easier. You need to ask the school counselor how likely it is for him to get in ED to either of those schools from his HS with his record. some HS in Virginia have UVa ED acceptances deep into the top 1/3rd; others it is almost impossible outside of the top10%. WM and VT also vary greatly by HS.
3 Likes