Looking for "Intellectual" Schools

College Search & Selection
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@Midwestmomofboys - Columbia’s Precepts may indeed be the cream of the crop among Ph.D. students, but for my tuition dollars, I want my kid learning from seasoned faculty that are experts in their fields (the ones that are teaching and advising those crackerjack PhD students).

I believe that UChicago makes a point of using top faculty in teaching their Core; I know that is the case with both Yale’s Directed Studies program and Stanford’s SLE as well as their Freshman Seminars.

I think it’s fine for grad students to run discussion sections, but I want my kid taking her classes with the best of the best.

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I read this thread with great interest. OP, you have so much going for you and I predict you will do very well in life. You might even be famous one day:) I just want to add that when my husband was younger he got a full scholarship to Davidson, but turned it down in order to go to Columbia. His thinking at the time was that he would go to the best school that he got into. He said he never gave “fit” a thought. A couple of months ago we toured Davidson with our D, and my husband said he probably would have enjoyed being a student at Davidson a lot more than he enjoyed Columbia, and he really liked Columbia. He’s probably the most intellectual person I know, but I think he saw Davidson as a more well-rounded, less stressful, less compettive environment, and he love the fact that they have their own lake for sailing, waterskiing etc. You will definitely find your people at Columbia, but you would probably be comfortable at Davidson too. I didn’t feel that jock culture at all even though there are lots of athletes. Anyway, good luck. I look forward to hearing where you end up.

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First off, I’m writing this from my phone, so I apologize if there are more typos than usual.

@LoveTheBard Wanted to say that I loved Stanford (despite the fact that it was raining today)! I didn’t realize how large the campus is. Not going to lie though, I definitely don’t think it’s my top choice. In terms of the schools I’m most interested in, I think it would go along the lines of Columbia, then Yale, then UChicago, and then Stanford. In regard to undergraduate teaching at Columbia, I want to say I significantly prefer a full-time professor, but I don’t really mind. Especially considering the whole point of LitHum, for example, is supposed to be extremely standardized—so ideally it shouldn’t matter too much who’s teaching the course. I have a friend who is an athlete at Stanford and she tore her achilles, so she had a gold cart. She drove me around on it and showed me the entire campus! At Stanford today, I sat in on two different art history lectures, one by a tenured professor and the other by a part-time lecturer (I forget the term Stanford calls them) and I actually preferred the part-time lecturer. I’ve found that just because the smartest person is teaching the course doesn’t mean that the course will still be great. I’d definitely prefer if all my classes could be taught by the best professors, but I don’t particularly mind if it’s a PhD student or a part-time lecturer as long as I enjoy the class and get value out of it.

@citymama9 Thank you for that! I’m regard to being “famous,” I definitely hope I can make a positive change in the world. I will definitely look more at Davidson, though I do feel that Columbia feels like the right fit for me as of now—though I know no school will ever be perfect. There’s plenty of schools that are the “right fit” for me, and I’m just hoping I can go to one :smiley:

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@takacatboy - Glad to hear you had a nice visit to Stanford and that your choices are becoming evermore clear.
I wonder if you didn’t end up sitting in on the art history class my D is in…

Here’s hoping Columbia does the right thing!!

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This may seem like an outlier but you might want to consider William & Mary. Very intellectual student body. Atmosphere is steeped in history, traditions, etc. Very common to see small groups of students sitting in the sunken gardens or coffee shops discussing things. Not your big rah rah student body. Very passionate about their studies and welcoming to all Tribe members. If you like to read, you’ll get your chance!

Great example of why “fit” matters. My son was accepted to W&M and chose Wake Forest because he did want the big ACC sports, excitement, etc. Also quite intellectual with great profs and small classes but a totally different vibe.

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@LoveTheBard That would be crazy if I did! Art history 1B. I talked a lot to the professor after too because he was a former Yale professor so I got his opinions on both. He told me Yale humanities definitely has a much bigger presence on campus, but Stanford can hold its own.

The one thing that did confuse me was my friend was telling me about “fuzzies vs. techies” and how the stem students sometimes call the humanities kids “fuzzies.” Thought it was really weird. And I do prefer Yale’s gothic architecture to Stanford’s Spanish. As my friend said, she sometimes feels like she goes to school at a giant Mexican resteraunt.

@rickle1 Yes I have been looking at William & Mary! My sister is obsessed with Williamsburg so she’s always like “you should go to W&M so you can get free admission to Williamsburg.” But I really am interested in the W&M and St. Andrews program (would probably do classics). I personally don’t like Williamsburg, but it’s a great school and I have a ton of family in the Virginia/DC/Maryland area so very convenient. Plus, I could probably qualify for merit aid I think.

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That’s the one. Taught by Alex Nemerov, son of poet Howard Nemerov and nephew of Diane Arbus. Small world! Was that the class that you didn’t like as much as the discussion section? I’m surprised - I’ve heard he’s a great lecturer (and sat in on one of his classes during a recent visit and was quite impressed.)

As for the techie/fuzzie thing, my impression is that it’s all in good fun…There’s probably an element of “revenge of the nerds” (remember when computer geeks and engineers were (are) thought of as nerds? Now being nerdy (oops - techie) is in vogue. Humanities kids also refer to themselves as fuzzies, so I don’t think they find it particularly disparaging. (And when you’re in SLE or living in someplace like the Humanities House, you’ve got your tribe.)

Yes, traditionally Yale has always been very strong in the humanities and will no doubt continue to be. That said, when my D won a local Yale Book award think and there were 20 kids receiving their award, she was the only one planning to major in the humanities in the group. Sign of the times. Meanwhile, I see Yale scrambling to shore up its CS program to meet need/demand, while Stanford is spending megabucks in their Arts Initiative to shore up the arts and humanities.

https://news.yale.edu/2015/03/26/yale-launches-expansion-department-computer-science

http://www.sfchronicle.com/item/Arts-explosion-rocks-Stanford-29469.php

I am by no means implying that Stanford is a better place to study the humanities than Yale, but it does hold its own in the humanities. (Plus it has better weather and isn’t in New Haven – two very nice things going for it!)

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To provide more statistically significant data, last year 32.5% of degrees at Yale were in STEM, compared to 60% at Stanford. Approximately 27% of degrees at Yale were in the arts and humanities, compared to 15% at Stanford.

One of the reasons Yale will continue to excel is that it has cultivated museums and document collections since its founding. The Beinecke and Art Gallery, to name only two resources, are centers of research not only for scholars at Yale but for scholars across the world. To cite relevant examples, since the OP expressed a potential interest in classics, Yale has the largest collection of cuneiform tablets in the US and one of the largest collections of papyri in the world; Stanford has virtually no one working on such texts. (Indeed, Stanford’s prominent papyrologist left for Yale a few years ago.) Older universities like Oxford have benefited for the same reason; the Ashmolean and Fitzwilliam are filled with artifacts and artwork acquired in centuries past, whereas universities founded in the last century or two have run afoul of cultural heritage laws that sharply inhibit collecting practices.

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@LoveTheBard Wow! I didn’t realize he was related to Howard Nemerov and Diane Arbus. I’m especially a huge fan of Arbus—her photography is wonderful and so unique! In my creative writing class in high school, I wrote many ekphrastic poems in response to her photos. I assumed the “Nemerov” last name was just coincidence.

I realize I messed up my statement a little. I sat in on three classes—two art history and one economics. I preferred Nemerov to the art history part-time lecturer, but I preferred the econ part-time lecturer (whose actual job is working at a consulting firm I believe) to the art history part-time lecturer. I realize now that that probably doesn’t help my case on being taught my full-time faculty vs part-time LOL.

Nemerov was great to talk to after class. My friend had him over a summer seminar and said he’s even better there than as a lecturer which is hard to believe considering he was an amazing lecturer! I also had a conversation with Joshua Landy about SLE and that was also great. I probably argued with him for about 30 minutes about how Proust is not philosophically similar to Nietzsche; it was wonderful!

And just like your daughter, I also won a book award. Granted, mine wasn’t from Yale, it was from Princeton, and I also got one from Bowdoin.

The fuzzie vs techie thing still seems very weird to me, but I guess all schools have their weird quirks. Definitely funny to think about how many of the Students at, say, Stanford were “nerds” in high school, and yet when you go to a school where that “nerdiness” is expected, it separates even further. I was definitely considered a nerd during high school, doing homework during lunch and prefering to read than go to a party, but visiting some of these schools, I have much stronger social skills than many of those students! Notably, when I visited Carnegie Melon last year, I approached many students and said “hello” and while I’d like to say they were stunned by my good looks or something, I think they just didn’t know how to talk to people LOL.

I also visited Berkeley today and really enjoyed it. Loved the professors I talked to. Although, I was sad that I didn’t have a chance to sit in on any classes. I was definitely turned off by some of the students though. It seemed a little too relaxed to me in certain places. I wasn’t planning on applying to Berkeley, and I still don’t think I will.

@warblersrule Thank you for those statistics! Very interesting to compare many of those top schools, and I didn’t know about the cuneiform tablets and papyri! I would love to learn more about all that.

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Hi! I am a freshman at Swarthmore! I think based on your stats, you have a really good shot at getting in! I love the intellectual vibe on campus. Everyone seems to have a different subject they’re passionate about, and class discussions are fantastic! Teachers are always open to talking about something that interests you, and opportunities for students to do internships or research work are everywhere. The environment is not at all cutthroat, and I have gotten the impression that people are really studying what interests them,! The workload can be tough, but it sounds like you are more than prepared. Good luck with the whole application process!

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Also! Swarthmore has great access to Philly and brings in guest speakers all the time! (Sorry for the long reply, I’m very enthusiastic about Swat haha)

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“The fuzzie vs techie thing still seems very weird to me, but I guess all schools have their weird quirks.”

If there’s any drawback to Stanford that would be it, the focus on STEM, but it has so many other things going for it (including weather!) that outweigh that drawback. The other thing is the athletic vibe of the campuses you’re considering, Stanford takes their athletics seriously, a stark difference to Chicago and Columbia. The Chicago rep in his talk said if you’re want a rah rah school, considering going somewhere else, which I think is the vibe you’re looking for. One more thing for Stanford is if you do decide to switch majors to a STEM one, specifically engineering. Otherwise Chicago and Columbia do seem the best fits for you. Good luck!

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Anyone who has read my posts knows that I don’t sugar-coat my advice. That’s great…but, these schools have a less than 10% chance of getting in. You have an 85-90% of all of them rejecting you. Have you considered a good scholarship school? If you’re going into computers, these schools are a big waste of money for a bachelors degree. Take it from a computer professional by trade. The ivy leagues were once the gold standard of education a few decades ago, but the major schools have caught up and, in most cases, surpassed them, especially in technology. A bachelors degree from any respected university will land a good job out of college because the field is in very high demand.

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@coolguy40 - While your caveats about ivy league admissions and getting a job out of college may be applicable in many other circumstances, had you been following the thread, you would understand where the OP is coming from and what he wants to accomplish intellectually and academically.

OP has already been accepted to MIT this year, so I don’t think he has to worry about having an 85-90% of being rejected at ivy league or elite schools. (Last year, he was accepted to schools like Yale and Cornell, again demonstrating how competitive an applicant he is).

OP is not going into computer science, nor is he looking to “land a good job out of college because the field is in very high demand.” He wants to study the humanities and is fascinated by philosophy and literature. He is interested in scholarship – not job training – and seeks like-minded students that share his passion for learning.

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@coolguy40 Hi! I know I’m a little late in responding to this, but I thought I would still give a response. As LoveTheBard said, I was already accepted to MIT early, and while I know I will most likely get rejected from some of these schools, I also know I have a pretty good chance at them. Last year I was accepted to schools like Yale, Cornell, and Cambridge, to name a few, and my last semester grades of high school were even better, I got all 5s on my senior year AP exams, and I think my gap year is giving me valuable work experience that many don’t get to experience.

And as I’ve said in the thread, one of the biggest things I’m looking for in a school is an intellectual environment. I know I’ll be able to find this at any school to an extent, but I also know that it is certainly easier at some than others. For example, while wandering Columbia I bumped into two random students who happened to be talking about an epistemological vs oncological death, and I immediately jumped right in—that’s the type of atmosphere I’d like.

While money is certainly a factor in my decision, it is not the deciding factor. My dad is pretty well off, and while he’s making me pay for some of it (15%), I’m by no means going to end up with 100k in debt or something like that.

And as I said earlier in the thread and LoveTheBard said, I’m interested in the humanities. I by no means intend to get a job directly out of college. I know with a degree in Philosophy or Comparative Lit or something like that that I’ll probably need some sort of graduate degree—which I’m happy to do given that I love learning.

For those who were involved earlier in the thread, here is my update so far:
Early schools: MIT (accepted), UChicago (deferred), Columbia (deferred)

My final application list for RD ended up being:
My state flagship (accepted), Georgetown, Princeton, Yale, Brown, Swarthmore, Haverford, Davidson, and Stanford
and then I will also hear from UChicago and Columbia. I did end up switching my UChicago application to ED2, so I’ll hear about that in 2.5 weeks.

Thank you everyone for all your help! I’m excited to see where I end up next year.

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So… I don’t see Georgetown as belonging on that “intellectual” list. Otherwise a pretty good list.

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@intparent Yeah, Georgetown is more for pleasing my dad since it’s his alma mater. He knows I won’t go, but it still makes him excited to see me apply.

I also applied to Carleton which I forgot to write above.

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Just out of curiosity, why did you switch UChicago to ED2? I saw earlier in the thread you said it was your 3rd choice behind Columbia and Yale.

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@TheGr8Gatsby So after thinking about it further, essentially all the schools I’m applying to have equivalent academics—and all of them will have top tier professors, so I took academics out as a factor. In terms of people, there were certainly ones I liked more than others. I personally connected more with the students at Yale, UChicago, Columbia, and Swarthmore (I still liked the people at the other schools too, but didn’t get the quite automatic connection that I got at those four). And within those four—and just in terms of colleges in general—I realize I’d be happy to go to any of them, and after talking to the UChicago rep after my deferral, she informed me that I was a borderline applicant; they’d been trying to decide whether I be deferred or accepted, so I thought I might as well give myself the little boost I might need for getting into UChicago. As well, assuming I get into Chicago, it makes my choice a whole lot easier given that I can be kind of indecisive. Chicago does have everything I’m looking for though: an intellectually diverse student body, a strong core curriculum, proximity to a large city, small to mid-size, and, well, those are the major factors.

And many people have been asking why I don’t want to go to MIT: while I’m still pretty undecided in what I want to major in, I enjoy the social sciences and humanities significantly more than STEM. As well, I talked to an MIT professor recently in the Poli Sci department, and he even told me that if I want to study the humanities, MIT is not the place to do so. I don’t think MIT would offer me the experience I desire.

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That makes sense. Also I think you definitely made the right call turning down MIT.