<p>Among the top 10 engineering schools ranked by USNEWS, Michigan, Purdue, and Illinois are fairly easy to get into. Among the top 5 public schools, Michigan is also relatively easier to get into for OOS students compared to the UCs, UNC, and UVA. If you dont like the word easy, then I can use the word less-difficult. ;)</p>
<p>Do people generally consider Georgia Tech difficult to get into? Looking at admissions stats, I think it should probably be considered as such. It’s certainly on the higher end of things. The 41% is perhaps reflective of a self-selection bias. Many of the other places have extensive offerings outside of science whereas Tech is science dominant. Students applying there fit a particular mold. From what I see, it’s equally selective as Emory (and Georgetown), Berkeley, and Virginia (I’ll throw in Chapel Hill and USC I guess) stats wise. It may yield students slightly lower in stats than such schools, but it admits about the same caliber. I have no idea of the chances of OOS people who apply there and if there is a huge asymmetry in expectations. It seems as if Tech is borderline when it comes to enrolling some threshold amount of in-state students. Just saying that some of these “high” admit rates are deceptive. Chicago used to have a high admit rate compared to private peers, and is yet was still very hard to get into and had essentially the same stats as those with almost half its admit rate. Of course, now its admit rate is lower because it gets a lot more applicants (many of them probably being on the fluffier side of things). I don’t imagine their stats to be changing tremendously, just the admit rate. Tech saw a similar decrease because it joined Common App. which boosted its applications.</p>
<p>Not hard to get into UCBerkeley??? 4.6 GPA, tons of ap classes, 2250 SAT, all state honor choir all 4 high school years, state cross country championships all 4 years, track and field all 4 years, team captain, etc…got into Cal but I’d say they are selective</p>
<p>Bernie, I forgot to thank you for your thorough reply a page or two back. Passionate commentary. I especially appreciated hearing about your time at Emory. </p>
<p>Btw, I like the subtle inclusion of Georgetown up there. Cheeky. 
I would say that the caliber of students at Georgia Tech is comparable to that of Georgetown’s, but the comparison isn’t terribly useful. The applicant pools don’t have much overlap and self-selection keeps them out of contact with the other. After all, Gtown doesn’t have an e-school and doesn’t use the Common App. </p>
<p>Excellent point about Chicago. A couple of years ago, it would have been perfect for the OP (although not for engineering). Keep in mind that a self-selecting pool with a relatively high admit rate is still just as hard to get into, as you mentioned.</p>
<p>Edit: and I also have to applaud bclinton on his analysis a few posts back. Well done. I wonder how stark the difference between programs is at, for instance, Penn Wharton versus Penn Nursing, or Cornell engineering vesus the hotellies.</p>
<p>"It also stands to reason (though it is concededly only speculation) that the entering class stats for OOS students also skew higher, insofar as they’re coming out of a highly competitive applicant pool. You’re right that we don’t know the distribution of in-state v. OOS engineering freshmen, but if it’s anywhere near the overall university distribution of 60% in-state/40% OOS, and if I’m right that OOS stats tend to skew higher, perhaps especially in highly competitive programs like engineering, then it’s not an unreasonable assumption that OOS engineering freshmen in 2013 would have an ACT median of 33 (1 point higher than the 2012 figure for all engineering freshmen) and a middle 50% of somewhere around 32-34.</p>
<p>Speculation, certainly, but I’d say well-grounded speculation."</p>
<p>To put it lightly, I’m not sure this is well grounded. Do you have any factual data to back up the engineering ACT ranges? And you fail to acknowledge that the figures you’re citing are for admitted students. You keep on comparing the overall university breakdown (40/60) of out of state and instate students to the admitted pool, which is patently incorrect. Michigan’s out of state yield is 20%. If anything, the 32 median ACT will not go higher for ADMITTED students unless Michigan supplants substantially more of its in-state admits with out of state applicants.</p>
<p>As long as your major doesn’t end in engineering you’ll be fine!</p>
<p>And bclintok, the out of state admit rate (should it follow 2012) is not “well below” 33%.
See here for factual numbers based analysis of the 2012 class to determine the not so tough to find out of state and in state admit rates:</p>
<p>[Enrollment</a> trends: Out-of-state students form 42.6 percent of University of Michigan’s freshman class](<a href=“http://www.annarbor.com/news/university-of-michigan-sees-increase-in-out-of-state-students/]Enrollment”>Enrollment trends: Out-of-state students form 42.6 percent of University of Michigan's freshman class)
[University</a> of Michigan shrinks freshman class but grows overall fall 2012 enrollment to 43,426](<a href=“http://www.annarbor.com/news/university-of-michigan-shrinks-freshman-class-but-grows-overall-student-body-to-more-than-43400/]University”>University of Michigan shrinks freshman class but grows overall fall 2012 enrollment to 43,426)</p>
<p>UMich 2012 total freshman enrollment = 6171</p>
<p>UMich 2012 out of state applicants = 32,500
Percentage of class comprised of out of state freshman = 42.6%
UMich 2012 enrolled out of state freshman = 0.426 * 6171 = 2629 freshman
UMich 2012 out of state freshman yield = 23% (conservative upper limit of yield based on article)
UMich 2012 admitted out of state freshman = 2629 / 0.23 = 11430
UMich 2012 admitted out of state freshman acceptance rate = 11430 / 32500 = 35%</p>
<p>Extremely close to the 37% overall admitted rate for 2012.</p>
<p>Compare this to instate:</p>
<p>UMich 2012 in state applicants = 9800
Percentage of class comprised of in state freshman = 57.4%
UMich 2012 enrolled in state freshman = (1-0.574) * 6171 = 3542 freshman
UMich 2012 in state freshman yield = 67% (conservative upper limit based on article)
UMich 2012 admitted in state freshman = 3542 / 0.67 = 5287</p>
<p>UMich 2012 admitted in state freshman acceptance rate = 5287 / 9800 = 54%</p>
<p>“In UMich case, due to the fact that the state doesn’t have huge population, the applicant pool is dominated by the OOS applicants.”</p>
<p>Michigan has close to 10,000,000 people living in it. Only eight states have more residents. In reality, only CA has a “huge” population. So much for engineering prowess. ;-)</p>
<p>^Great job, Blah2009. This is where engineers tend to shine. They are generally more sensitive to myth or fallacy related to numbers. </p>
<p>This is very similar to what many people tend to think about Berkeley - that its OOS admission is much harder to get in but it’s actually not. The poor yield (also around 20% or so) makes the admit rates for OOS and in-state virtually identical. A similar fallacy has also been floating around for UNC on this site. In UMich case, due to the fact that the state doesn’t have a huge population, the applicant pool is dominated by the OOS applicants. So the OOS admit rate drives the overall admit rate. The two rates should be very close (35% vs 37%) and indeed they are, as you just illustrated.</p>
<p>CC’s favorite myth: “ED significantly brings down overall admit rates”. :)</p>
<p>^Edit: rjkofnovi, I am aware of the fact that Michigan is not small compared to most other states. But it’s not big in the sense that its in-state applicants don’t drive the overall pool. Engineering prowess is not a myth. ;)</p>
<p>^ OOS, yes; International, no.
<a href=“http://www.ucop.edu/news/factsheets/2013/fall_2013_admissions_table2.pdf[/url]”>http://www.ucop.edu/news/factsheets/2013/fall_2013_admissions_table2.pdf</a></p>
<p>The admit rate is not a reliable indicator of admissions selectivity, since the various applicant pools (e.g. in-state versus out-of-state, or different schools or divisions in a school) may not be of equal strength.</p>
<p>For example, College of the Ozarks has a 9% admit rate. But average HS GPA of incoming frosh is 3.58, and average ACT score is 22.
<a href=“http://www.collegedata.com/cs/data/college/college_pg02_tmpl.jhtml?schoolId=1804[/url]”>http://www.collegedata.com/cs/data/college/college_pg02_tmpl.jhtml?schoolId=1804</a></p>
<p>^I know that. I just did not mention that the stats for OOS (US) and in-state at Cal are also very much identical. Stats for international are higher due to its greater prestige (relative to others). The general rule of thumb is the admission difficulty should mirror its perceived prestige among the high school seniors. That’s why the myth that Cal’s OOS admission difficulty is somehow close to, say, Stanford’s is easy to spot. The same goes for UNC. There’s this idea that its OOS admission is just as difficult as, say, Duke. While the admit rate for OOS is a lot lower than in-state (15% or so vs 50%), the test scores are not very different.</p>
<p>That list makes little sense. Hendrix gets a 2 while Grinnell gets a 3?</p>
<p>The point of a prestigious university is that it’s hard to get into. That’s why Harvard is prestigious because it’s difficult to get into. acceptance rate doesn’t correlate exactly with level of prestige because some colleges are easy to get into, but their applicant pool is not as good.</p>
<p>SCO123, since you are going to major in Mech Engineering, find a university that has a good engineering school. Employers know where the good grads come from, more about the individual college than the overall prestige of the Univ. Also remember that cost of living is more expensive on the coasts like California or New York.
Do you want to live in a college town or a larger city?</p>
<p>Big Ten schools are a good place to look,
Purdue, Wisconsin, Ohio State, Illinois etc.</p>
<p>Also take a look at Univ Cincinnati (largest freshman international class this year),
Pittsburgh, Univ of Illinois-Chicago.</p>
<p>One school I haven’t seen mentioned is Rensselaer. Rank #41, admissions rate is 44% (41% male, 49% female), SAT CR: 610-700, Math 660-760, W 590-690, ACT 26-31. I also think Purdue and Case should be on your list. Michigan and Penn State are also good choices. These schools are still selective, particularly for an international student, but they are less selective than the tippy top schools, which seems to be what you are asking. Please look at costs with all of these schools; they are all rather expensive (not just the privates; these publics are particularly expensive for out-of-state students). And please don’t forget to include safeties.</p>
<p>The UC (california) schools should be easy to get into if you’re from out of state since they need people to pay out of state tuition, but also, as a way to foster more diverse communities than just californian students. The UC schools are prestigious, and Berkeley and LA are definitely at the top of the list. Definitely consider it, since cali has great weather, and you’ll definitely be among very bright people wherever you go!</p>
<p>RPI stats above are misleading for male/female ratio - the ratio of students *attending <a href=“versus%20admitted”>/I</a> is:
71% male / 29% female
Their yield among females is low, a common problem among STEM schools…</p>
<p>I think you should try UC Santa Barbara or UC Davis. Both have the University of California Diploma and both are easy to transfer into from a two year California Community College. So first, go to a community college and then transfer. </p>
<p>UCSB and UCD are well known internationally, too. And they don’t come with the high price tags as the private schools.</p>
<p>
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<p>However, they are still quite expensive for those who are not California residents.</p>