If she really wants to be an engineer, I’d attend a research university.
Johns Hopkins, Rice, Lehigh and Rochester are mid-sized research universities with ChemE that have a liberal arts college feel though each in it’s own way.
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we’ve visited it’s hard to say whether she’ll love the small LAC vibe or not but she tends to be adaptable. Her safeties are our state universities, and we’re going to need pretty much a full tuition scholarship to realistically be able to consider out of state schools. We won’t qualify for much if any financial aid and we will have two in college for three or maybe all four of her years in school.
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What is your EFC now with one in college??
Are you saying that with 2 in college, you won’t qualify for much/any aid, and you need YOUR net cost to be about $15k (to cover room, board, books, etc)
I would be reluctant to have a kid sign up for a program where they are moving around from year to year unless this is something that really, really appeals to them. That’s quite a bit of transitioning, both socially and academically.
The 3-2 programs are strong, but it requires leaving the LAC after three years, plus you are now paying for 5 years of college and 2 BS degrees. I went to a LAC that offered this (with CalTech) and while I do know people who took advantage of it, the numbers were pretty low in the end.
The only 4-1 program I can comment on is the Haverford/Penn one (just not familiar with others). The student spends 4 years at Haverford (but takes 3 Penn engineering classes during those 3 years, and those 3 classes count towards the bachelor’s degree at Haverford) and then moves on to Penn for one year to finish up. Less transitions and you end up with an MS instead of a second BS.
“the 2-1-1-1 program sounds awful from a social standpoint” (#18)
Not sure what you are seeing here. Over 60% of students at the participating colleges may study off-campus under any circumstances. And Hanover is certainly closer to Massachusetts or upstate New York than, say, China. Then the final year is as a post-graduate, another common time for some degree of separation among friends. As far as I can see, the 2-1-1-1 engineering programs appear designed to parallel the historical social cultures of the colleges that offer them.
Still paying for 5 years of college… I know some engineering majors take 5 anyway, but not all.
OP even though DD may seem reluctant for a large school, what she may need is a school with a strong honors program, where she can hook in and find a ‘tribe’.
TAMU is a friendly campus, as is Univ of AL. UA has some great honors programs (STEM MBA, Emergent Scholar where can get involved in research as a freshman - those two are sizable programs), and also has some programs to get on campus before the first term (honors programs early action, outdoor action, also Camp 1831) - some students are in sorority rush so they are on campus early, and Rookie Band for Million Dollar Band members. I went to TAMU as a grad student and DD is in eng at UA. I do understand the desire for a smaller campus because of feeling overwhelmed.
I would suggest looking at ABET accredited schools for ChE (if truly knows that will be her field) - if she is NMS she will have more OOS options. UA is very generous for high stat students that are OOS and more generous for NMS (10 semesters full tuition scholarship - so can use for graduate program, etc). Automatic full tuition, and eng scholarship of $2500/year.
Doing college visits to the programs that are more likely, and also visits to see what is really key to keep in the selection process.
Maybe she wants to stay closer to home.
UAHuntsville is a smaller campus in a medium sized high tech town. Perhaps that would appeal to her.
However it is a very big decision due to the merit situation going in. Do not leave out merit schools that have ABET accreditation for ChE for application unless student has visited and totally ruled the school out. Student growth during senior year, and may realize what is a better fit.
I also do not recommend the 2+ where one has to finish at a different campus. I have a friend’s son (is a rising college sophomore now) who probably is going to continue and get 4 year degree at first school instead of continue on his degree choice to move to one of three schools after two years - he was too stubborn to look at a school in a geo-region that would have given him an excellent education in his field for only a little cost over room and board, and his only choices were two school acceptances, this small liberal arts school (mom’s alma mater) and his state flagship safety. Parents were not totally honest either with the school as to an outside source of financial support.
We have a good friend who’s son is graduating Val with very similar stats to your daughter. He is going Chemical at Rice. Believe he got $96,000 at Rice. This same kid got some money at TX (think it was $40,000) and $70,000 at Arkansas. This kid was admitted to some other tip top schools but no money at those. High income family. I’d check out Texas Tech also. I know the one NMF at our High School is going to Texas Tech on a full ride.
@mom2collegekids We are full pay. We will definitely visit Rice this Summer, but the 4 year cost of attending Rice University scares me. I do think my daughter will love the campus. I don’t think location or weather matters too much as long as it’s not in Anchorage, Alaska. And probably a quiet school for my daughter, she’s never been interested in attending HS football games and probably won’t join a sorority.
I will definitely include Dayton and Rochester on our list for dinner time discussion. I’ve talked with you about Alabama also because I know they offer great merit scholarships which are certainly of interest to mom and dad, but maybe not so much to D. What do you think about the honors college at UofA or any other big state school? Do they help make the school seem “smaller” or more similar to a LAC? I’m hoping a campus tour of an honors college may make her feel better about attending a big state school. We are planning trips to UofA and Oklahoma this Summer.
If you expect to get no need-based financial aid, what price would you like to keep it below, based on list price or merit scholarships only?
@SOSConcern Just read your comments and thanks for the great information. We are definitely looking at TAMU and UA, but right now my daughter is worried about big schools. Hopefully during the campus visit of the honors college she will get a different impression of the school. Her UT-Austin visit was the state UIL choir/music competition, so it really is not a fair assessment. We probably need to schedule a “real” campus visit of UT-Austin and let them show her their honors programs and specific colleges she would take classes at.
Both the Col of Eng’g and the HC can make a big school seem smaller. At Bama, the College of Eng’g is in it’s own little world. If your DD will come in with AP credits that fulfill the Gen Ed req’ts, then she would be almost exclusively in Eng’g buildings and HC classes.
If you visit Bama this summer, avoid the first 20 days in August. That is Move In period for various groups/classes, and decent lodging venues are mostly fully booked.
@ucbalumnus I’ve told all my kids (D is the oldest of 5) that their budget for college can be no more than the COA of a Texas state school. I think UT-Austin is about 25-30K/year, so that would be my budget. My D would need significant merit aid to attend a private or out-of-state school.
On a practical side, I’m working as an engineer and based on my experience, there will not be much difference in earnings potential no matter which school she gets a BS from. So I’m not focused on national ranks or prestige… just looking for best fit within our budget.
I also recommend looking at Case Western Reserve. My daughter just graduated from Case (not in engineering) and she had a great experience.
I don’t believe anybody has mentioned Texas A&M-Kingsville. Sounds like an excellent match for the OP’s daughter.
Public school
In-state tuition
Small town of less than 30,000 people
School has under 9000 students
About 47% of students are female
ABET-accredited undergraduate and graduate Chemical Engineering programs
Smith College offers engineering and would probably give your D a lot of merit aid.
The problem is that “a lot” at a school like Smith still can leave you with a bill of $40K/year.
What about Rose Hulman? They give substantial merit aid and are a very strong small engineering college.
Looks like UT Austin is about $26,000 per year for Texas residents.
Full tuition scholarships would be more than enough, while full ride would be even better. Of the colleges listed in #6, the following should be within budget:
Lamar ($22,000 list price for Texas residents)
Louisiana Tech (automatic full ride)
Prairie View A&M (automatic full ride; $23,000 list price for Texas residents)
Tuskegee (automatic full ride)
University of Alabama Huntsville (automatic full ride)
New Jersey Institute of Technology (full ride if National Merit Finalist)
Others of note:
North Carolina A&T (competitive full ride; $29,000 list price for non-residents)
South Dakota School of Mines and Technology ($29,000 list price for non-residents)
A few other publics have non-resident prices in the $35,000 or so range:
New Mexico Institute of Mining and Technology
SUNY Environmental Science and Forestry
Schools that are far too expensive with no merit scholarships:
Princeton
Stanford
Yale
For others, you may have to check individually if they offer large enough merit scholarships and how difficult they are to get.
You can preview some campuses on-line - with video footage etc. UA’s STEM/engineering area is a spacious area of new construction (built up since early 2000’s).
Some great suggestions on this thread, and your budget will work out fine. I think leaving lots of options open with plenty of targeted applications.
Good luck and at the end of her senior year let us know where she ends up going (and if she does stay ChE).
For your younger children, rising HS juniors and seniors can attend a one week summer SITE program (Student Introduction to Engineering) - UA’s program offers three summer sessions (they don’t advertise because they always fill up) - that lets students get familiar with the various eng and CS opportunities, and academic facilities. Other schools like Purdue offer similar summer HS programs. My DD attended SITE going into her HS senior year and confirmed her desire in civil eng (she was contemplating another eng area too).
I liked the comment about Lafayette - I think it is a great fit for your daughter. My son was looking for a small school for engineering and it was his second choice. He is at the University of Tulsa, which has 3500 undergrads and a very strong engineering program. With your daughter’s stats, she could qualify for their Presidential, which is tuition, room and board. Tulsa is also much closer to home for you - if you are in Texas. Feel free to PM me if you have questions.
My son applied to and was accepted to Rice. The financial aid there is very limited and the acceptance rate is so low. I am always surprised to see Rice suggested so frequently on cc. I completely agree with your concern about cost. We found them a bit arrogant in admissions. Just not that enthusiastic about Rice.