@deborahb Tulsa was not on my list, but now is. I did not know much about the school, but it looks like it could be a good fit. Thank you for the great feedback! I have a much longer list of schools now. We will take the advice and do campus visits at the big state schools (including OOS w/NMF scholarships) people are posting…the feel of the engineering school or honors college may be what my D wants.
We will also include some smaller private schools that I think she has a good chance for merit aid. I’m not listing some of the other great small engineering schools recommended because I think the chances for a scholarship will be very slim. With so many engineering schools to look into, we will not visit/apply to any schools without her major (3-2 or 2-1-1-1 programs). Here’s what I think we will focus on:
Publics
University of Alabama
Oklahoma University
Texas A&M
University of Houston
University of Texas-Austin
Privates
University of Tulsa
Lehigh University
Lafayette College
University of Rochester
Tulane University (I know it wasn’t mentioned, but a friend from Boy Scouts recommended it and it’s within a day’s drive of the house)
Lehigh, Lafayette, and Rochester are the furthest from our house and probably require a plane ride to visit. They seem like such potentially great fits that we’ll have to figure some way to do a visit this Summer. Thank you all for the posts and I will update this thread as she makes her decision.
@ucbalumnus I think the small public schools in #37 won’t have the “feel” of the small privates and then won’t have the excellent opportunities and high achieving student body of the honors colleges at the big state schools. This is just my perception of the schools I know about from the list…
“I’m working as an engineer and based on my experience, there will not be much difference in earnings potential no matter which school she gets a BS from.”
This depends on what type of engineer she wants to be. For example, Chem E salaries are much more closely bunched than Computer Science salaries, so a top CS program is more likely to result in a significantly higher salary than a top Chem E program.
I would say that Rose Hulman is quite small (about 2,200 students), has great completion rates, and outstanding placement. DD2 wanted a small engineering school too, and we took her there. The biggest drawback was that it was really in the middle of nowhere: Terre Haute, IN.
Lehigh is a bit larger with about 5,000 undergrads and 2000 grads, and strong engineering programs, high graduation rates, and great placement, and higher average salaries, but I am not sure whether your D would get a merit scholarship, but I think it is possible.
Case Western is fairly large for your D with about 12,000 students and a much more expansive campus. I think it is likely that you would get some money from them.
@Much2learn Yes, my work experience is mostly with mech, civ, elect, and chem engineers. I certainly don’t have much experience with comp sci, biomed, and other engineers. I read through the Rose Hulman and Case Western websites and got the impression that large merit scholarships would be unlikely from those schools. Lehigh seemed less selective than those two and also names several large scholarships available to students. Like I mentioned in an earlier post, attending any of the private schools would requires some merit aid to get within our budget. I listed some privates that I think my D has a good shot for merit aid, but certainly this is not an exact science. I may troll some of the Rose Hulman/Case Western discussion threads to see what type of merit aid students are getting and how selective the process is. Thanks for the feedback!
CS pay levels may vary greatly, but not so much because one attended a “top” school. Those from “top” schools may be overrepresented among the most productive, but many of the most productive come from other schools, or from self-educated (in CS) backgrounds (no BA/BS, or BA/BS in an unrelated subject).
Note that the big GAFAM-type companies recruit far more widely than just the “top” schools (though they can be very selective in their processes). A “top” school may be more of a target for smaller non-local companies that have more limited recruiting resources and needs (but more than they can fill with recruiting at local schools).
Cooper Union in NYC is a very selective “boutique” engineering/arts school.
At 800 students total enrollment, I believe that it is the smallest school that offers a Chemical Engineering major. Up until a few years ago it was tuition free. Now it is half tuition for everyone with some merit available, but I am guessing that the additional merit is very competitive.
Here is the Payscale salary ranking. It tends to be dependent on the mix of engineering majors and Chemical Engineers that go into petroleum tend to draw high salaries so schools at the top tend to have Chem E - note that Lamar grads tend to do well. Rice and Tufts are small schools, but I know Tufts does not offer merit and I don’t think that Rice does. Other people may recognize other small schools…
Check out Lafayette. We visited last summer and were very impressed with the campus. It’s a small liberal arts college in Pennsylvania that happens to have a great engineering program with merit scholarships.
The companies I’ve worked for don’t vary starting pay based on alma mater, only degree, recommendations, and GPA. It has happened that a grad from the same school as a corporate exec will sometimes start a little ahead, but after 3-5 years … no.
Miami, in Oxford Ohio, isn’t super small, but they have some fairly straightforward scholarships (half - full tuition). Probably be around 30 with half tuition covered. The campus looks and feels very traditional. It’s not a research U, but they don’t have a lot of sections taught by TA’s either, if the visit was correct.
UA Huntsville and MI Tech are similar that way, although Huntsville is a research university. NMF will yield nearly a full ride at UAH, maybe a little better. But only you know the details of your own value/cost equation. Just saying it’s out there.
“but not so much because one attended a “top” school.”
That is partially true. I don’t think it is the name per se. I think the student has to actually know more, but that is more likely at a top program where the demands and opportunities are just higher. Additionally, they may have the opportunity to learn material that is just not taught in a typical program.
Penn SEAS CS majors had an average starting salary of $98k last year, and NETS majors (CS Specialty) had an average of $101k. It is possible for students from many schools to get a salary like that, but that is pretty high for an average student in my experience.
California Polytechnic CS bachelor’s degree graduates for 2014-2015 reported a median pay of $90,000, so it is not like Penn is way above in this respect (especially since there is probably some Wall Street and consulting preference at Penn that is not present at California Polytechnic).
65k in Dayton or Peoria supports a lifestyle that takes north of 100 in one of the major coastal cities. Would be cool to see a map of starting salaries with layers for both job location and supplying university.
At every place I’ve worked, the guy from Penn is going to start at the same pay as the engineer from NC A&T.
“Ruthless meritocracy” came up earlier. It’s an apt description of engineering.
@ucbalumnus “California Polytechnic CS bachelor’s degree graduates for 2014-2015 reported a median pay of $90,000, so it is not like Penn is way above in this respect (especially since there is probably some Wall Street and consulting preference at Penn that is not present at California Polytechnic).”
I think that it is possible that both are true. It may be that Penn CS students make more on average because they are better prepared, but still they do not make more than peers in the same jobs. It may just be that the grads from other schools that are prepared at that level are less common at most schools. Therefore, the average salary is higher.
Also, I considered at the possibility Penn CS salaries are inflated by students who are not really working as Software Developers/Engineers. It appears that currently, that is not the case. The average salary for Penn SEAS grads who are actually working in “Software Developer/Engineering” is actually $1,500 higher, than the overall CS average.
I would also add that Cal Poly is an excellent school and with a location between LA and SF is perfect for students to gain maximum access to internships and job opportunities, so the average for Cal Poly does not surprise me at all.
FYI I don’t think Case western reserve is necessarily more selective than Lehigh and they give out substantial merit up to $31k per year. My son this year was WL at Lehigh, received $22.5k from Cwru, $17k from u of Rochester, and $24k from Lafayette. Lehigh is moving away from merit to focus more on need based aid. Also Cwru has only about 5,000 undergrad students–essentially same size as Lehigh or university of Rochester. Your D’s stats are stronger than my son’s.
Case Western Info:
Overall Admission Rate 38% of 21,733 applicants were admitted
SAT Math 710 average - 660-760 range of middle 50%
SAT Critical Reading 659 average - 610-710 range of middle 50%
Lehigh Info:
Overall Admission Rate 34% of 11,512 applicants were admitted
SAT Math 683 average - 640-740 range of middle 50%
SAT Critical Reading 629 average - 590-670 range of middle 50%
Looks like Case is a little more selective based on stats.
The OP is looking for a school perhaps that has rural aspects to it (see the original post). In this sense, the city-in-the-country atmosphere of UR might work for his daughter. The fully urban CWRU would be less likely to be a good fit.
It does seem that Lehigh’s admit rate is going down faster than Case’s (for 2015/16 it was 30.4% compared to 36%). As far as merit aid, Lehigh offers less average merit.
Based on the CDS info it looks like you are right that Lehigh offers more need based aid and Case more merit (on average). For students with good records it probably still makes sense to apply to both to see how merit/FA falls out.
Re: New Mexico Institute of Mining & Technology that was mentioned in post #37…
Total COA for OOS student is $34,090. BUT…
they stack scholarships
With high school GPA of 3.25 & ACT 27 or SAT 1200, your child would qualify for a scholarship that gets her in state tuition, which reduces COA by $13,150/year.
They also have several other merit scholarships which your DD would qualify for, which would stack on top of the scholarship mentioned in item #2, ranging from $2,000-$6,000/year.
then that gets the annual COA down to $14,940, including room & board.
It might be worth your while for your kid to reconsider. Especially since NM Tech is in a rural area, isn’t enormous like UT-Austin, AND NM Tech students have HUGE opportunities for doing research with professors in their major. According to their ChemE dept’s website (http://infohost.nmt.edu/~cheme/mission.html), a lot of students get summer internships at the Los Alamos and Sandia National Labs. Those are really awesome opportunities to work on cutting edge research. It would be more difficult in a larger university to “stand out” from the crowd, so I totally understand your DD’s shying away from UT-Austin.
For that very reason, she’d probably want to steer clear of ASU, although their honors college has gotten a lot of positive buzz in the last 2 years.
Re:U of Arizona -
U of A is a large school with total enrollment of >42,000 students (that include part timers). It’s a big football school. Despite living in Tucson, I don’t know anything about the reputation of their ChemE department, but the total # of faculty is much larger (20) than at a place like NM Tech (6).
According to the 2015 Common Data Set data from UofA’s website, in the 2013-2014 academic year, UofA awarded a total of 387 1st-time bachelor degrees in Engineering (the CDS doesn’t break it down to individual major).
If your DD is interested in ChemE at UofA, she should consider contacting the department advisor (advisor@chee@arizona.edu) with additional questions she might have, such as how many ChemE undergrad students are enrolled, what are the class sizes in that department, etc. http://www.chee.arizona.edu/undergraduates/che
With regards to any college you’re going to tour, in addition to taking the regular campus tour, you & DD could also consider contacting the ChemE department ahead of time and arrange a visit that same day to that department. Ask to sit in on a class, speak with an advisor or professor so your daughter could ask questions & get a feel for what THAT particular university’s ChemE is really like.