Looking for safety schools for CS or engineering

College Search & Selection
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My S22 is just not yet in the “time to apply for college” mindset. He is the slow to mature type, and the remote learning for the past 18 months certainly didn’t help. He is not motivated to research colleges etc. So I’m trying to find him a few solid safeties so whenever he comes around at least he will have some good choices.

His stats are fairly solid. We are in Illinois, a large very good public HS.

ACT 36, SAT 1570, both taken only once in spring semester of junior year
GPA uw 4.0, 5 AP classes so far, scores all 5 except AP gov 4
will take 5 AP classes senior year, including Calc BC, Physics C, English Language
Ranking should be top 5%, but not likely top 10
EC is average, some school clubs and teams just for fun and social, one small leadership role.
Many competitions with school math team, qualified for AIME for first time in junior year.
Piano and drum for about 10 years, no awards though
Martial arts for 8 years and swimming for 5 years, just for exercise, only city level competitions and no awards, but does have six pack abs lol.
Summer programs since high school are mostly math and STEM related, but nothing too selective, the pandemic during last two summers made the choices very limited.
Essay writing skills is only average, he doesn’t want to write a lot of essays.

The sad thing is we are an Asian male aiming for CS or engineering, the most brutally competitive pool I think. Also our preference is not to go too far for a safety school.

Our instate flagship UIUC CS is apparently no safety. We like Purdue and will apply to their College of Engineering. I am considering Ohio State and Michigan State, are those safety admission wise? Anything else we should add to the list, especially schools that will notify decision before Christmas?

Many thanks.

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University of Pittsburgh, Penn State & Rose Hulman come to mind.

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Budget? As the parent, determining the budget is your top priority.

Note that UIUC has direct admission to CS and engineering majors, but it can be difficult to change major, and some students get admitted to pre-engineering and will find it difficult to get into the more popular engineering majors.

Some other regional flagships like Purdue, Minnesota, Ohio State, Penn State admit to a first year engineering program, where students face a secondary admission process based on college grades later to get into their majors. Michigan and Pittsburgh have similar systems, but non competitive secondary admission (2.0 and C grades).

Wisconsin has high GPA weed out requirements for some engineering majors. However, it appears that CS there is not as overloaded as CS is a many other flagships.

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Michigan State should absolutely be a safety, but they only promise to release early action decisions by January 15th. They do not have a MSU specific essay requirement - just the common app essay. They also don’t require any recommendations.

Your son will likely qualify for an out of state Honors College merit scholarship that would bring the cost down to in state rates. The HC scholarship is not really advertised, but a $5,000 version is available to in state students admitted to the Honors College who have a 33 ACT or 1500 SAT. I’m not sure of the OOS parameters, but I think you might get an idea if you run their net price calculator. He should also qualify for the Alumni Distinguished Scholarship competition that takes place in the winter, but nobody quite knows how they award those and there aren’t very many of them (I think 20 full rides).

There is a thread on the Michigan State board about merit if your interested.

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So you have safeties from the other posters. I even think UIUC is likely. And Ohio State too. And most any Big 10 school except perhaps Northwestern which would also be possible.

With a record like your son, the question becomes do you want to pay for prestige or save? I’m sure you are looking at schools like CMU, Ga Tech or Rice and you should. But are you looking at the dirt cheap schools, Alabama and Arizona? Not saying you should as your son will get into fantastic programs including UIUC. But these are the schools where his record gets to keep you financially solvent :). He’s fit right in the Honors College, especially at AZ. Good luck.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.chicagotribune.com/news/ct-met-illinois-students-brain-drain-20180405-story.html%3FoutputType=amp

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Based on the combination of your comments that your son is not motivated to research schools and that he’ll apply to Purdue, I do want to mention that Purdue has some majors (including CS) with a “priority application deadline” of November 1 in order to be competitive for admission. When my daughter applied two years ago, an admissions rep who visited her HS basically told her that she would be unlikely to be accepted for CS if she targeted the regular-decision deadline of January 15. (You may also want to check on other popular engineering majors at Purdue.)

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Thanks to the above posters. To address your questions, we don’t have a set budget, it’s only about value, whether it’s worth the price tag. We don’t qualify for FA and can afford sticker price if he gets into his long shot dream school.

We really hope to get one solid acceptance before Christmas. I thought Michigan State was on rolling admissions before, but now it seems they don’t release EA decision until January. Ohio State is the same thing. Is OSU engineering an admissions safety for us?

I’ve considered UPitt but it’s a bit too far from home. Penn State even farther. Michigan and Wisconsin aren’t safeties so we probably won’t bother with them. I thought Wisconsin CS is no easier to get into than UIUC. Is that not the case? I actually prefer the first year engineering set up because kids do change their minds once in college.

Alabama and Arizona are great schools and should be safety based on my son’s stats, but both him and I don’t like the idea of going so far from home for a safety school.

Could Purdue engineering be a safety for him? I heard Purdue CS is in college of science and tougher to get into than engineering. Personally I prefer Purdue over UIUC and son will apply to both EA.

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It’s college - if you drive a few hours or fly, what’s the difference.

His tuition at Arizona would be about $3K and Alabama would be near free ($28K + $2,500 engineering and $1K for his 36) - and he’d have free housing the first year.

Sure, you can spend $300,000 if you want…but you could also spend $40-60K.

If money no issue, why not apply Northwestern, Michigan, and Wisconsin - as these are close. Maybe WUSTL as well - or for a “cheap” safety that’s close, Missouri S&T. I see Wisconsin as a likely. If a UIUC or Purdue are too big, you might look at Miami of Ohio - not a small but smaller school which has a beautiful campus and great merit as well. And it’s an hour closer to Chicago than Columbus.

Here’s the other thing - you can apply to a school like Alabama or Arizona - they are 20 minute applications - and you’d get in and your scholarship now - sort of have them in your back pocket. Alabama is its own app; Arizona can go own or Common App - and their acceptances come quickly. While they’re too far, there’s still a ways to college starts and at least you have these in your back pocket in case something goes wrong…if after looking at them, other than distance, there was an appeal to you. You might even learn that the distance thing isn’t a huge deal after all.

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UIUC also recommends applying to popular majors (such as CS) by Nov 1: “Meeting this deadline [Nov 1] may give you the best chance for being admitted to our most selective programs.” Note that both early action and regular action now are notified of decisions in mid-February, so you will not have an answer from UIUC by Christmas (this is a change from two years ago, when my daughter applied).

Iowa State would be a safety for your son, would offer merit aid with your son’s stats, and offers rolling admissions with a very short turnaround time (as short as two business days).

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Not for CS - admission rate to CS is around 15%. Engineering, which has an admissions rate of about 37%, would be a low target (since the OP’s stats are in the top 25%), not a likely.

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Time for your son to get interested. As pointed out above, some schools have early admission deadlines and scholarship deadlines. Get out a calendar and mark it for Az and Alabama.

My kids weren’t that interested in applying or making a decision either. They applied to ONE school each in October or Nov and were accepted. They both knew that if something went wrong, they’d have to take a gap year.

All worked out.

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Oh, I understand that UIUC is brutally difficult and I know the OP has to hedge their bets - as they are with other schools. …I just have a feeling. But - like everyone, there has to be a set of reach, match and safety. I certainly wouldn’t apply onto to UIUC and they certainly are not. Good luck to them.

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I respect that - sometimes it happens, and it tends to work.

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Only you can decide the criteria used to make this decision…what is value? If it’s about earnings potential, I did a fairly recent deep dive on that using Mechanical Engineering and the data pulled from College Scorecard, the only non-self reported earnings data that I know of. Pay is largely regional. There are only 21 schools where MEs average $74k or higher after 2 years. Interestingly, UIUC, Purdue, and Ohio State are not among them. You’d assume they’re only blue bloods, but the list included Kettering, Michigan State, U Mich - Dearborn, Wayne State, Oakland and Lawrence, all MI publics, all safeties for your son. MI Tech is just below.

He needs to decide what he wants his college experience to be like to know if a smaller, more nurturing school like Michigan Tech or Kettering will be a better fit than a big school like Michigan State.

FWIW, Kettering ME grads salary average is higher than grads from MIT, Stanford and Carnegie Mellon two years into their careers. So what is “value” to you? Engineering is very egalitarian.

Also, I’d consider Purdue and Illinois both at least matches with his stats. Neither are Stanford like competitive and both are pretty data driven.

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This is great info. Thanks for putting that together. It’s informative to people that the biggest names, with the hardest admissions, don’t necessarily draw the primo jobs, especially when small private schools like Kettering have strong ties to a specific industry. I wonder how an Embry Riddle fares vs a UF or Miami. I’ll look up.

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Yeah, I guess we don’t set a budget constraint and value is very subjective. I see value as more in overall college experience and how it lays the foundation for future, not merely as earning potential. I think future earnings has more to do with location and industry rather than major so it can’t be the main factor for determining value. I’m not too obsessed with prestige, but I do prefer name recognition, hence I favor the big public schools that are generally considered engineering power houses.

Is Iowa and Iowa State solid enough for engineering or CS? Are there any solid private schools that can be safety for us and preferably not too far?

We were not too picky about location before, but this pandemic kind of changed our thinking. Son has no desire to go too far unless it’s his dream school. I like the idea of big merit award of course, maybe I can convince him on Alabama. Will he be competitive for big merit at UPitt?

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Iowa State is a great engineering school with a National lab. It would be a wonderful safety.

And, not to be too snarky, but the safety isn’t for “us,” it’s for “him.” That is unless you all plan on attending. :stuck_out_tongue_winking_eye:

I’d also strongly consider Missouri S&T. They produce very strong engineers. My sister turned down MIT, our father’s alma mater for a full ride at Rolla.

Lastly, maybe you misspoke, but major is hugely important in earnings potential. Yes, location, mainly upper east coast and west coast get higher salaries, but software engineers earn much more than mechanical engineers for example. All engineers earn much more than history majors.

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Haha, point taken. Yes all these considerations are all “for him”.

I understand major is important in earnings potential when comparing different majors. What I was referring to is with the same major, location and industry has more impact on earnings, like how you compared ME earnings from different universities above. A CalPoly grad working for Google in silicon valley will earn more than a MIT grad working at a national lab in Alabama. But the college experiences are definitely different and many will think the MIT experience is more valuable even with lower earnings. Of course these are all personal preferences. My son is pretty set on either CS or some engineering discipline, so I’m not thinking too far ahead about his earnings potential, he will figure that out himself down the road.

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Generally, Iowa State is considered better than Iowa in CS and Engineering - but when you hear somewhere is better or not, in many ways it’s marketing (i.e. someone developed a ranking and kids are over stressing themselves to attend certain schools and considering themselves failures if not). I would find the right school for your son and not just the highest ranked.

btw- many of the top schools, like Purdue, like Minnesota charge extra thousands in fees for engineering students because, let’s be honest, their job prospects are superior to the psych major. Bama gives you $2500 for an over 30 ACT - so that’s another swing - and another cost to add to the Purdues of the world on top of the published COA. Not sure if Iowa or Iowa State do.

My son chose Alabama over Purdue - because the engineering facilities are the nicest in the country and the dorms unbelievable. He even had a $10K scholarship from Purdue which is rare. At his summer internship, he was on a team with two Ga Tech students. He’s been invited back next Summer, they were not (yet). So - engineering opportunities are plentiful and kids from many schools will succeed (as will many fail…because in the end, it’s about the student…their personality, their hustle, their abilities). So you should find the right school - not just the name school. While you would like name recognition, have you heard of Rose Hulman or Kettering or Michigan Tech or Missouri Science and Tech or Colorado School of Mines or South Dakota School of Mines…because these are all great names!! Known by professionals and their kids are finding successful jobs - but maybe not known to the regular person.

Not sure where you are in Illinois but I’ll assume Chicago. That’s 7 hours to Pittsburgh - is that not too far? Your son could qualify for a scholarship at Pitt. You could be in Tucson quicker than that !! While there are no cut offs, a 33 ACT is typically needed for merit at Pitt and you are above. But there are 36s that don’t get them. And they are typically small unless you are a URM. So you may get one; you may not - but you’ll certainly be admitted and it’s a solid school located in the city if a more urban like campus is desired.

If you are looking for close, schools to consider would be:

Illiniois: Northwestern (reach), and the rest are safety (Illinois Institute, Bradley (you can see scholarsihp on line) and some of the directionals in state.

Wisconsin: U of WIsc (match) and Milwaukee School of Engineering and Marquette would be safeties.

Michigan: Michigan a reach, and Michigan Tech and State are safety. There’s also Kettering and Lawrence Tech as @eyemgh mentioned.

UMN would be a match.

Missouri - WUSTL (reach), Missouri Science & Tech (Safety), St. Louis, and then Mizzou isn’t as strong - but it’s a large state school like you might like. Missouri Science & Tech is the public to beat there!!

Ohio - Case Western Reserve U is a match. Ohio State a match as well. While you can co op anywhere, Cincinnati is know for them…and Dayton is smaller, has great merit. Miami can be that rural school, gorgeous campus, great merit…very good reputation (although not known for engineering).

You might look at U of Kentucky too. My boss’s son built a microscope that was sent to the space station…so you do cool stuff - and he had zero issue finding internships or a job.

So you should find the best “fit” - sure, it’s nice to go to a big name…but you have to spend four years there, day after day after day.

Hopefully this helps to give you an idea of decent schools that are within distance.

Even pricey schools like WUSTL have merit aid - although it’s unlikely you get in and if you do, it’s unlikely you get money. But you can still reach for the stars since you’ll have several back ups.

Good luck to you.

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UIUC CS major in Grainger has a 4% acceptance rate, info direct from admissions. A reach for all.

OP….consider DePaul, Dayton, Iowa, Iowa State, and Marquette for safe schools.

ETA: Pitt isn’t giving as much merit as prior years, as they are shifting FA money from merit to need based aid.

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