Looking for some support

My DS is a junior and we are in the process of developing a list of potential colleges. We are also looking for potential merit aid and/or scholarships. I am hoping if I list his data and a few of his reach schools I may get some support on how to determine safety and match schools. THANK YOU in advance!

ACT 35
PSAT 226 (out of 228)
GPA 4.0
Rank #1
AP - this year 4, next year 5
Will also take a youth options Math class next year at the local college
EC’s - medical club (president), Honor Society (treasurer), marching band, HAM radio operator, piano (state level participant), hospital volunteer, inner city school volunteer

Career Interest - pre-medicine track

His list:
Northwestern
Tulane (visited)
Rice (visited)
Washington University (visited)
Vanderbilt (visited)
Emory
Duke
Johns Hopkins
Dartmouth
Harvard

I feel like these are almost all reach schools for him and am trying to help him narrow down his list and develop some safety and match schools. Any advice or help? THANK YOU SO MUCH!

He has excellent stats…but that is a very top heavy list!

It looks like he will be a NMS (assuming he takes the SAT). That being the case, I believe he would receive full tuition at University of Alabama, plus annadditional amount that NMSF receive. @mom2collegekids is this correct?

I would also suggest that he apply to University of Pittsburgh…apply on the early side. Their merit awards are not guaranteed…but he has what it takes to maybe receive one.

You don’t mention your home state… but what about your flagship public university? Many have honors colleges and offer scholarships to instate kids.

As you probably know…most of the schools on his current reach list either don’t offer merit aid…or it is highly competitive.

We are in Wisconsin. Madison is on his list but he is talking about a school with no more than 15,000. Anything smaller is fine. Yes! His list is VERY top heavy so it will be narrowed down soon. Another question - how do you determine what would be a safety, match and reach? What makes a safety a safety??

Does your school have Naviance? Start there.

A safety is a school where he has a HIGH probability of acceptance…and you can afford the cost…and he would,be happy to attend if accepted.

I know Madison is bigger than 15,000…but really, he isn’t going to KNOW all 15,000 students. At all.

What about Case Western?

St. Olaf gives some merit aid and, historically, has had a high medical school acceptance rate for its graduates. Beloit gives merit aid; I think Lawrence does, as well. I realize that staying in or near Wisconsin isn’t necessary for you, but these were the first schools that popped into my head.

Parents around CC will say, a safety is a school that: (1) a student is almost certain to get into; (2) is affordable; and (3) the student will be happy to attend. That third one is often the sticking point for high-achieving kids, as they often envisioned themselves somewhere prestigious. But for a student who is serious about pre-med, minimizing debt, especially with generous merit awards, is an important part of the strategy.

You can look at the Common Data Set (google, for each school of interest), to see where the distribution of test scores and gpas fall. A student who falls within the top 25% of scores/gpa where acceptance rate is (people disagree here about where the line is) is something above 40-50% (my somewhat arbitrary figure), a student probably looks solid but not a lock for admission. An easy error to make is to look at stats for schools with below 20% acceptance rates, see that a student is in the top 25%, and figure they have a good shot at admission. Most of those schools are just not predictable enough, and certainly not when you hit the “lottery” schools with below 10% acceptance rate. Those schools are rejecting students who are every bit as qualified on paper as the ones who are admitted.

The typical advice for pre-med is to minimize undergrad debt at all costs – since a student will presumably have to borrow it all for med school. As med school admission is largely a factor of gpa and test scores, plus having engaged in shadowing, research etc., there is not necessarily a strong advantage to to pre-med at Northwestern over, for instance, Pitt. We know a number of kids who took generous merit at “lesser” schools and are now in very competitive med schools.

Since your student is comfortable with the 15,000 range, you might keep UW as what should be a safety (as long as his essays are solid). UW shrinks pretty quickly once students sort into their respective Colleges. The opportunities for undergrad research program – by application – for freshman, as well as the Honors program, can be quite impressive for a UW undergrad. I’m biased, of course, my own student is at UW (OOS), and has had a phenomenal education, with world-renowned profs, close relationships with his professors, and competitive internships. Of course, UW does not give a lot of merit, but as your instate flagship, it offers a good instate rate and not excessive room and board costs.

S had similar stats and a very similar list (though he did not apply to H). His safeties included Case Western (he was accepted through a non-binding early admission with ~30K merit) and the University of Rochester. That was a few years ago, so the landscape may have changed somewhat. S is currently attending his top-choice school (applied ED)

Tulane should be a safety unless they reject him because of yield-protection.
He has a chance of getting a big scholarship from Tulane or Emory.

As for size, I’m not sure there is a big difference between 15K and 30K. At least, the difference isn’t as big as between 3K and 15K (or even 3K and 6K).

Thus I also think that he should apply to UW-Madison. Note that most people in this country don’t have access to a public as good as UW-Madison (and thus are willing to pay OOS rates to go to schools like UW-Madison).

Also if he is pre-med it is far more important that he have a high college GPA than that he graduate from a highly competitive “brand name” school. Especially if he’s going to need money to go to med school, and if he doesn’t get enoug aid to attend the reachy schools. Good luck!

If you’re looking for merit and excellent pre med, check out Earlham. It’s very small, though!

Union gives merit and has good premed (and a good combined degree program.)

Miami of Ohio would give him good merit aid - potentially a full tuition scholarship. http://miamioh.edu/admission/merit-grid/index.html

He is starting as pre-med. it is important for him to have other options that are good just in case he switches course…which the vast majority of those entering as pre med do.

GPA and no debt for undergrad are a good idea too if he DOES apply to medical school.

You might want to look at UT Dallas - if he is a NMF, it is close to a full ride for 4 years. Full tuition and fees and $11,000/yr is you stay on campus, $8000 if you go off campus. Still a good scholarship if not a NMF. Has a 72% acceptance to med/dental schools thru the HPAC program. The school has about 16,000 ungrads, so not too large.

UW-Madison is your ace in the hole – great school, relatively low price (to save up for med school), and while I wouldn’t call it grade inflation, if he works hard he should be able to achieve a strong GPA. UW does have an honors college in case he wants to shrink the school a bit. (it will shrink anyway once he gets into his major…)

Regarding the reach schools you listed (Tulane perhaps being a match and Emory a high match…), in order to pare that list down you should think about “fit” variables, things like:

  • Academic variables like class sizes, academic calendar, research opportunities, and grad/distribution requirements. Also, since he wants to go to med school, grade inflation may be taken into account.
  • Setting (rural, urban or suburban?)
  • Location
  • Weather
  • Social vibe (sports/party/Greek scene)
  • Cost (run NPC). Also include travel cost.

Some of these reach schools do not offer merit and for those that do, it’s likely extremely competitive. So I suggest considering the schools that others will suggest that offer merit awards that are likely easier to obtain. The aforementioned Case Western, U of Rochester, Pitt, Earlham, St. Olaf, Beloit, Lawrence, and Union College are all good schools that offer merit aid.

Generally I think you’ll find that many universities and LACs ranked about 40-100 (and lower), according to the US News rankings, will offer merit aid and the type of quality you’re probably seeking – with merit that is easier to get than at tippy-top-ranked schools. Obviously schools with automatic merit awards are the ones most likely to offer it to your son.

Regardless of merit award considerations, run the NPC for each school to find out the pre-merit cost estimate.

Then its not a safety. Its a match, for sure, and its a very good idea to apply as early as possible. And any school with an admit rate of 30% or less isnt a “safety”, IMO. Also, IMO there is a big difference between a school if 15k vs 30K. Big difference.

Rhodes College in Memphis has a relationship with St Jude’s. http://sites.rhodes.edu/healthprofessions/ Here is info on merit awards https://www.rhodes.edu/content/scholarships-and-fellowships-0

Creighton University in Omaha has a good premed program and offers merit awards. I think there is an honors program. Here is info on premed advising http://blogs.creighton.edu/edge/pre-professional-development/

He can major in anything and still go to med school. In fact, I read once that as a group, music majors have the highest admit rate in terms of percentage. Granted, prerequisites need to be done either during undergrad or postgrad (there are programs for this). So many young people think they want to be doctors, I just wanted to inject the potential for freedom of choice in undergrad years : ) Also, of course, nursing and physicians’ assistants’ programs are available post graduation.

I wonder if he has considered any of the Colleges that Change Lives schools (website, national fair, and book by Loren Pope). Also Oberlin, Kenyon, Macalaster, Carleton. If he likes small those schools and those on the CTCL would most likely appeal to him.

He is in pretty good shape though: I don’t think his list is horribly unrealistic.

If you search for posts by Curmudgeon his daughter turned down Yale undergrad for Rhodes. She ended up at Yale for med school. How small is he willing to go? - because 13,000 (if that’s counting undergrads) seems huge to me. If he can find two safety schools - I think he can have as many reach schools as he likes - though there is the issue of what you can afford as well.


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I am hoping if I list his data and a few of his reach schools I may get some support on how to determine safety and match schools.

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Based on your post, you’re not looking for school recommendations but instead, a method of determining which schools are safeties and matches. we found naviance and parchment useful in this regard. these were the rough probabilities ranges we used:
safeties - 90 to 100
match - 40 to 80
reach - 1 to 40

have him enter his data into parchment, add colleges and look at probabilities. I’m guessing the probability estimates for many of the schools on his list will be sobering.

for my D,a senior, we crafted a list of 3 safeties, 3 matches, 3 near reaches and 3 far reaches. If she had been admitted EA to a match or a near reach, she’d have dropped her safeties and matches and tried for a couple more reaches.

my d had similar stats (though not as strong act), rigor, is going pre-med and shared an interest in many of the same schools. here’s my cc thread, her stats, school list with naviance stats followed by parchment probabilities are in reply 165:
http://talk.qa.collegeconfidential.com/parents-forum/1886295-help-with-classifying-safeties-matches-and-reaches-for-my-d-p11.html

or, if interested, you can see how the list evolved over time by starting on page 1.

best of luck!

I second the suggestion of visiting St Olaf. Music, sciences, and merit money all wrapped into one. The town of Northfield is nice too. Then hop across the river and visit Carleton but be aware that it does not do much in the way of merit awards. Follow up with a visit to Macalester in St Paul. You will know then if liberal arts colleges are the right size for him.