Looking for some unbiased advice, this is a complicated question

Transfer Students
1

<p>Let me start by introducing myself. I am currently a college junior; I just finished 2 years (4 semesters) at a California Community College. I was accepted to USC and NYU (CAS) for Fall 2007. I will be majoring in economics, and my educational goal is to go somewhere like U Chicago or MIT to study development economics.</p>

<p>Here is my dilemma.
Based on the price and location, I am pretty sure that USC is not where I want to go. I could go to NYU, because their econ program is said to be pretty good, and living in NYC would be pretty cool. Reading up to this point, most of you would probably tell me to just go to NYU. However, this is where it gets complicated. </p>

<p>UC Berkeley takes in a lot of students every year from my ccc, and most of my friends who applied this year were accepted. Most of my friends who were accepted had less honors classes than me, lower cumulative gpa's, and lesser high school records. Based on this observation, I think that I have a very good chance at getting into Berkeley. The reason why I did not apply to Berkeley this year is because I was a few units short (I didn't enter community college thinking I would apply to a UC, so I didn't follow the IGETC plan). After this summer, I will have enough units to apply. Given my current options, I am strongly considering taking one year off from school to do something meaningful, such as joining Americorps or getting a TEFL and teaching abroad, then applying to Berkeley for Fall 2008. The risk is, of course, if I am rejected I will have nowhere to go. If this happens, I would end up at a local state college forever cursing myself for turning NYU down. Right now I am trying to figure out how big of a risk this Berkeley plan is. I said that I think I have a good chance at getting in, but that is based strictly on my personal observations, and also none of my friends were applying as economics majors (one was business, another was bio, I forgot the rest). If I can somehow convince myself that the risk is not that big, I will go with the Berkeley plan. If I successfully get into Berkeley, the reward would be great because Berkeley's econ program is tier 1, and since I am from California it would cost me less than half of NYU's cost.
Please let me know what you guys think.</p>

<p><em>Also, people have told me to defer my admission to NYU for a year; how do I go about doing that? I can't find anything on the admission brochure or the website.</em></p>

<p>My stats:</p>

<p>High School:
GPA 3.6 uw
SAT 1430 650v 780m
ACT 31
ec's: 4 year varsity tennis</p>

<p>College:
GPA 4.0 (Honors program, took a lot more honors classes than required)
ec's: average
essays: good/above average
reccomendations: 1 is good/above average, 1 is excellent</p>

<p>unique feature(?): bilingual, born in Japan and raised Japanese</p>

2

<p>Are you doing it purely to get into Berkeley though? No personal interest in the "something meaningful"?</p>

<p>It's a good economics program, but why do you specifically want to study economics at Berkeley so much? "Tier 1" isn't really THAT much higher in terms of an undergraduate education when someone is planning to do graduate school in the subject.</p>

<p>If you find it meaningful, by all means go to Americorp or whatnot, but to do it purely to apply to Berkeley... I don't know if it would be worth it, to tell the truth. The professors are very good, in my opinion, and the economics graduate students are among the most interesting people I've ever met... but still, as an undergraduate education, I don't think that you'll be learning anything "special" or a "trade secret" of Berkeley.</p>

<p>The cost is certainly a consideration though...</p>

<p>I guess you're right that it's a toss-up. Though I should point out that it is far, far harder to get into the business program than the economics for transfer students into Berkeley. If it is truly your friend's stats that got him in, I wouldn't be worried about yours for economics.</p>

<p>It's a risk. It's not a huge one, admittedly, since Berkeley takes many transfer students and you would be far more qualified than most of its pool. It's still not a small risk though.</p>

<p>If you do go through with it, I highly suggest having more schools lined up than just Berkeley.</p>

<p>By the sounds of it though... developmental economics, Americorps... you are very cohesive and know where your interests lie...
I think you have a better than even chance of getting into Berkeley if you go through with your plan--you're the kind of person that the admissions committee likes to see, judging from my couple of interactions with some of the admissions officers... </p>

<p>Eh... generally I wouldn't suggest such measures just for one school, but with your case...</p>

<p>If it's personally that important to you, I would risk it.</p>

3

<p>Thank you for the response. First of all, joining Americorps (I would join Peace Corps but I don't want to take 27 months off) is something I would do at some point of my life, be it after my graduate education or between my undergraduate and graduate. My rationalization is that by doing it in the year I take off before applying to Berkeley, I do not waste a year because I am spending it doing something I'd be doing eventually.
You make an interesting point by saying that the econ undergrad education at berkeley is not that much better than nyu. Would it be possible for me to do good at NYU then go to MIT or UChicago for my graduate education? Would I have a better chance at that if I go to Berkeley? My main concern at this point is to get into the best possible graduate school.</p>

4

<p>maybe you could ask for NYU to defer your admission...</p>

5

<p>
[quote]
You make an interesting point by saying that the econ undergrad education at berkeley is not that much better than nyu. Would it be possible for me to do good at NYU then go to MIT or UChicago for my graduate education? Would I have a better chance at that if I go to Berkeley? My main concern at this point is to get into the best possible graduate school.

[/quote]
</p>

<p>Well, of course.</p>

<p>Graduate schools don't discount you for not being in certain colleges.
Although depending on the perceived difficulty of the program, someone can do worse than in certain places, but still be viewed equally by the admissions committee--that's usually justified as it measures how much effort was put into the classes rather than the raw GPA.</p>

<p>The largest factor in your chances will be your recommendations.
The economics department at Berkeley is very large. But then again, I would wager that it is at NYU as well (I'm afraid I'm not as familiar with NYU).</p>

<p>Thus, it would be up to you to make sure you're memorable and impressive to professors at either place.</p>

<p>It may sound cliche, but how you do and what result comes out of either college will be determined more by you than the college.</p>

<p>Also, it seems that you aren't, but if you were to decide to do graduate school for economics at UC Berkeley (which is also a very strong program like those at U of C and MIT) take into account that Berkeley is not very incestuous. </p>

<p>You don't get any advantages for being there during your undergraduate education--you'd think you would since some professors are on the board determining admissions, but it never seems to pan out that way here.</p>

<p>Either will serve you well--there won't be a huge difference going to either university.</p>

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<p>I agree w/ Allorion that you should apply to more than just Berkeley next year. A side note...if you are transferring as a junior to Cal your HS grades and stats are basically meaningless. Make sure that you do not base acceptance probability on your HS stats at this point for Cal.
Good luck to you</p>

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<p>Thanks to all who have responded. I'm going to try to take a lot of classes and graduate in 2 years, I have 60 transferable units so it should be possible. If I do this, the price difference between two years at NYU and two years at Cal won't be big enough to be a determining factor. Having said this, my decision really depends on how different my chances are of being admitted to somewhere like U Chi/MIT for grad school. Is anyone familiar with the econ programs at both NYU and Cal? If there isn't a big difference and both schools can potentially get me into the grad schools I've referred to, I think I'm going to go to NYU. Basically what I am asking is, does everyone agree with Allorion when he says, "Either will serve you well--there won't be a huge difference going to either university." I just need some more input to finalize my decision.</p>

<p>Thanks again</p>

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<p>I would say go to NYU. I agree with Allorion and if you spend one more year at CC that's just another year that you are missing out on the college experience.</p>

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<p>
[QUOTE]
Having said this, my decision really depends on how different my chances are of being admitted to somewhere like U Chi/MIT for grad school.

[/QUOTE]

Grad schools take into consideration what university you come from, but it's not an extremely important factor. Of course, if you were to attend some unknown 3rd-tier university it would probably impact your chances for grad school admissions quite a bit, but NYU is by no means 3rd tier. I think it doesn't make a big differences if you go to Cal or NYU, at least for grad school.</p>

<p>Far more important for grad school are your letters of recommendation, statement of purpose, work/research experience, interviews and test scores.</p>

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<p>Ok I'm going to think it over for about 24 hours, but so far it looks like I'm going to NYU</p>

<p>Thomas: what test scores are you referring to?</p>

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<p>Im a soph at NYU, so from my knowledge the Econ department and Stern (the prestigious undergrad business school) have a very strong bond in terms of faculty, curriculumn, etc etc (if that says anything at all about the econ dept. here). I do agree that in terms of going to a top grad school, it will not make a huge difference whether you go to NYU or Berkeley, in the end grad schools judge what you've accomplished at your school over where you went to school.</p>

<p>Furthermore, I don't believe Berkeley to be far superior than NYU enough for you to take a year off and defer your plans as well as NYU's acceptance. True, Berkeley may be ranked higher than NYU in the most general of the sense, but there are many programs here that are consistently #1 in the nation. Graduate schools and programs here are also very recognized. So as a whole, I personally feel like the community of people in academia are well aware of this although nationally, or internationally, NYU may not be a Harvard or a Columbia. (of course, I may be a bit biased since I'm a student here).</p>

<p>So now to just give you a studen't experience: So although it is the largest private school in the nation and there are like 15,000 undergraduates, I find a lot of my classes to be small and personal. The largest lecture class I've been in is about 100 students (and with these big classes a small lab/discussion follows), the smallest about 12 students. Already, I've established great relationships with my professors-- including one who wrote me an excellent and very personal letter of rec. for a program/internship. So I'm telling you this because I think grad schools weight letters of rec. pretty heavily. So Berkeley may be prestigious, but you may not get the personal attention you may want (Im a CA resident so I have more than a handful of friends at Berkeley who have acquainted me with the school). </p>

<p>Anyways, I don't want to sound too biased but I think it's pretty obvious to say that no, going to nyu will not significantly diminish your chances of going to a great grad school.</p>

12

<p>Thanks for the input. </p>

<p>This is an entirely separate question, but did I make the right choice by applying to CAS and not Stern? My goal is to study economics, and later go into development economics at a good graduate school. I noticed that Stern has an econ program too, but being a business school, I assumed it was the type of economics that would land you a job as an i-banker or something along those lines.</p>

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<p>
[QUOTE]
Thomas: what test scores are you referring to?

[/QUOTE]

GRE or GMAT.</p>