<p>I may not be posting this in the right forum; however, I wanted throw it out there and see if any parents with experience might be able to offer advice. Our D is applying to several competitive research internships for this summer. Most all of the applications ask for two LOR -- preferably from a professor in this field of study. The problem is that most all of these classes she's taken or taking have 200+ students, and the professors do not know the students on a personal level. There has been one class that was smaller, and the professor knew her well and enthusiastically agreed to assist. She has a very solid resume and impressive GPA, but I'm afraid these LORs may be a stumbling block to obtaining summer internships. Any suggestions?</p>
<p>I have taught classes this large. I don’t know all of the students but I always know some of them. Some things she should be doing (if she hasn’t, she should consider for next year): </p>
<p>*Putting up her hand to ask questions (even in larger classes there is no real reason not to).
- Visiting the prof during office hours to talk about research and her future goals.
*Getting on the department colloquium list and start attending seminars of visiting scholars. - Most importantly, getting involved in volunteer research with faculty in her school by asking them about it and scouting out opportunities during the year. </p>
<p>LORs and research are as easy to come by in a large school as small, it just takes some initiative. But if she isn’t already doing voluntary research work it would be hard to imagine how she’ll get great LORs (or that more generally how she’d be competitive for paid summer internships). That would be her best bet.</p>
<p>op, I once wrote a similar type of letter for an undergrad for whom I had been his Teaching Assistant. He had come to my office hours almost weekly, and felt that he knew me better than the Prof. Some TA’s are qualified to be teaching at that level, so such a letter could well be adequate.</p>
<p>As a variant of the above suggestion, one option is the TA (if there is one) writing the letter and the professor signing it. To be blunt, a grad student’s opinion is not worth nearly as much as a professor’s. </p>
<p>My advisor has a strict policy that anyone asking for a LOR must have taken at least 3 classes with him. When you’re regularly teaching 60+ student classes, people start blurring together.</p>
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<p>Yes to both of these points.</p>
<p>^ That is unethical. It would be one thing to sign your name to something you actually know about and agree with (regardless of who writes it), but quite another to sign your name to something you have no knowledge about, as if it is reflecting your personal opinion when it is not.</p>
<p>If you ask the prof, it really helps if you can provide:
a copy of all work you have submitted in the class (provided it’s the prof and not the TA grading it). I’m likely to remember a paper someone wrote more than an individual and would have an easier time writing that "so and so wrote a really original paper in my seminar. His grasp of this topic indicates . "</p>
<p>a resume</p>
<p>a digital picture of yourself (sounds dumb, but it can help to jar the prof’s memory. The name might not register, but sometimes you can think: Oh yeah, he was the redhead who always sat in the third row, the guy I could always call on to have done the reading).</p>
<p>And the best phrasing is something along the lines of "would you feel comfortable providing me a letter for . . "</p>
<p>Also, tell the prof up front approximately how many letters you will need, whether they can be submitted electronically, and when they might be due. (In other words, don’t just let the requests trickle in over the course of a couple of weeks. Instead tell him: I’m applying to 6 internships – these are the programs – this one is my first choice).</p>
<p>Son did two two research internships as an undergrad and he had to get LORs. His professors generally knew him, even in the large lecture halls for the reasons mentioned in the posts above. So for those students looking to do research internships, get to know your professors and make it easier for them to know you.</p>
<p>As for this summer, your daughter could just contact her professors and ask them if they would write an LOR - she really doesn’t have anything to lose. The professors that did LORs for our son usually asked him for a description of the research internship, and his resume - I guess they customized the LOR for the project description.</p>
<p>As you’re finding out, a limiting factor in the number of applications that she can do is the number of professors that she can get LORs from. Son generally didn’t ask any one professor for more than one LOR per year.</p>
<p>A lot of research internships start showing up in December and early January with application deadlines in January, February and a few in March. Professors usually have more time during the break (last week of December, first few weeks in January), and it’s better to ask when they aren’t busy getting everything ready for class and dealing with beginning of class headaches for the first two weeks. Sometimes a professor needs a reminder on an LOR too (they’re very busy people).</p>
<p>I think that students should try to do these applications over the break too as doing them while starting classes can add to stress.</p>
<p>It’s your responsibility as a student at a big school to go to office hours, speak up in class, and do whatever you need to do to cultivate a relationship with your professors-- especially if you know you’re going to need LORs. This is VERY, VERY doable, but one has to take the initiative. I went to Michigan and had no problem having relationships with my professors, even in VERY large classes. Your D can do this!</p>
<p>In addition to doing those things, I had a folder with some of my papers from the class in it and a description of who I was and what I was trying to do for the professors I asked for LORs, to refresh their memories. There were some professors I asked that I didn’t know AS well, but they remembered my work once they saw it again even if they’d never spoken to me. At least with my professors, they understood that we were at a big school and sometimes it was hard to establish a relationship with EVERY potentially useful professor, if they could get the info they needed to write a rec they’d do it.</p>
<p>BCEagle:
When you ask a prof for a letter, they usually keep a copy and then are perfectly willing to tweak the letter for multiple other applications – just like a high school teacher might. I’ve had students ask for 7 or 8 letters of recommendation. Don’t feel like your child can only ask a prof for one letter – if s/he’s writing one anyway, then s/he is usually happy to submit that letter or a similar one more times. (Of course, it’s up to the student to keep really good tabs on how many have been submitted, where they need to go, when they’re due, etc. )</p>
<p>So was fortunate - I think that he only had to do one or two apps the first year and two or three the second year. Our kids didn’t go to high-school so I am not familiar with how high-school teachers do LORs.</p>
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<p>Exactly my thought. If you know you will need LORs, then you have to plan ahead and build a relationship.</p>
<p>I have heard of a professor of large lecture classes (organic chemistry) who had the grad assistant in charge of the student’s small section write the LOR. Then both he and the GA would sign it. The point of the LOR is to give the committee more info to flesh out the candidate. I can’t imagine that they would complain about such a letter.</p>
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<p>It wouldn’t be a bad idea to build the relationship even if LORs won’t be required. It might give you the benefit of the doubt on quizzes, exams, papers and homeworks.</p>
<p>^^Good point, BCEagle…</p>
<p>I am a college professor with some big classes. Even in a group of 100+ students, you always remember the good ones (they participate, come to office hours, ask questions). It’s actually no different from how you know who the good students are in a small class. </p>
<p>Also, if a student wants the professor to know her (or him), she should feel free to come to office hours even if they don’t have a question. I am happy to talk to students about their research interests, suggest internships, or even if they just want to introduce themselves. It drives me nuts that students don’t take advantage of office hours.</p>
<p>^^It drives us parents nuts that our students don’t take advantage of your office hours, salander, LOL!</p>
<p>Thank you for the advice! D does indeed routinely go to office hours, extra study sessions, etc. I think her problem is simply the fact that she feels the professor needs to be extremely well acquainted with her in order to write a letter of recommendation. (She went to a private prep where her average class size was around 12, and the teachers thoroughly knew all the students.) I reiterated that it wasn’t necessary for a professor to know her on that level in order to write a complimentary reference. Her other problem is that she’s somewhat reserved at times and is uncomfortable asking for things like this. She recognized how important these items were, though, sucked it up, and emailed a few of her teachers. She attached a resume and an unofficial transcript and reminded them who she was. The responses were favorable, and they have graciously agreed to help. (Yea! :D)</p>