Loss of respect for Amherst

<p>I swear, this is not a post of bitterness. However, after being waitlisted with my SAT score 150 points higher than Amherst’s 75th percentile, I was curious as to what kind of student Amherst does accept.</p>

<p>The numbers below (taken from the <a href=“http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/amherst-college/481874-official-2012-amherst-regular-decisions.html[/url]”>http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/amherst-college/481874-official-2012-amherst-regular-decisions.html</a> thread) show that a higher SAT score clearly does NOT help you get in Amherst (in fact, it seems like a high SAT score gets you a nice place on the WAITLIST). This could perhaps be attributed to a holistic admissions approach, with many factors being weighed other than SATs. HOWEVER, take a close look at the race of applicants.</p>

<p>It looks to me like Amherst’s #1 priority is diversity, at the expense of everything else.</p>

<p>Accepted
Mean SAT: 2110</p>

<p>1860, African American
1890, African American
2050, black, white, hispanic, and native american
2230, Asian - co-wrote and won a 10k engineering project grant and did the project
2220, Native American/Black/White/Chinese
32, white
2180, white
2200, Hispanic
2250, Asian</p>

<p>Rejected
Mean SAT: 2150</p>

<p>2210
1980, Asian
2270, White</p>

<p>Waitlisted
Mean SAT: 2220</p>

<p>1910, Hispanic
2240, Asian
2270, White
2230, Asian
2200
2320, White
2370, White</p>

<p>This post was not meant to offend; I hope it did not.</p>

<p>You do realize that Amherst has an incredibly small amount of Latino/a and African-American applicants, right? The two combined couldn't make up more than 15% of the applicant pool. Those two demographics are also the hardest to yield, too. Of course their admit numbers are higher.</p>

<p>Whites and Asians make up the majority of applicants. The higher end White and Asian applicants are also hard to yield. Why? Because they end up in Ivies. Amherst is just doing yield control. They're tired of being a tiny Tufts University.</p>

<p>I hope that you don't make any assumptions about test scores based on a tiny sample size. That would shallow thinking.</p>

<p>Amherst is not worried about being a tiny Tufts University. I know people who turned down Ivies to come to Amherst, and there is no bitterness among people who did not get into HYP.</p>

<p>Making judgments about Amherst's admissions priorities based on an analysis of a tiny sample of a flawed measure of academic qualifications is foolhardy. See last year's Common</a> Data Set for a larger sample. Also, Amherst's 75th percentile SAT is 1530/1600 (can't find it out of 2400), so the OP's scores were not "150 points higher than Amherst's 75th percentile".</p>

<p>Sorry, did the math wrong for the 75 %ile. College board reports 770+760+760, which is only 80 points lower than me. (Yeah, math actually was my lowest subscore :D )</p>

<p>I totally agree that this was not a random sample or anything, but I insist that the numbers we have access to on that thread seem pretty unusual.</p>

<p>A small set of data, but this is certainly eyebrow-raising. </p>

<p>Yes, race is a big deal now. Swarthmore admitted 19% Hispanic, which is a far larger proportion than their slice of the population of the U.S. Make of it what you will.</p>

<p>Well, since you found it okay to put up my SAT score up, I know I completely sucked on it. Got a 32 on the ACT, though. Noticed you didn't put that up there.</p>

<p>Don't use my stats in a public forum to compare to yourself, plzkthx.</p>

<p>Sorry, Grim. I meant to put ACT score when people reported it, but I must have missed yours.</p>

<p>Sorry... but the difference between a student who got a 2110 and another student who got a 2220 just isn't that great. (I'm using your mean scores for the purpose of making the point.) I mean, really, would it feel differently to be in class with more students in one group than it would to be with students in the other? They are both outstanding scores. Methinks, Kristina, you're obsessing a bit much about test scores. That's just hardly a difference at all as much as it reveals some quality of mind. I would think the benefits diversity would bring (if that is in fact the issue) would far outweigh the meaningless difference between one set of high-achievers at taking a test and another.</p>

<p>Like others have said, your sampling is tiny and analysis of it yields no viable results. I can understand bitterness due to the fact than an overabundance of white middle to upper-class people applying does give minorities an advantage in some ways. Is it fair? Maybe not. It is, however, reality and we must take it as it is. The whole college process is flawed whether race is involved or not and that is what we must eventually accept.</p>

<p>On another note, I do appreciate the rather warm rejection letter. It was an easy let down, instead of "YOU SUCK." :)</p>

<p>The waitlist letter cheerfully told us, on purple paper, that out of the 900 kids who typically choose to remain on the waitlist, an average of 22 are usually offered admission.</p>

<p>Kristina, I understand exactly where you're coming from. That was my immediate thought, too. And, for all of you down her throat, check out Amherst's values. They truly have always prided diversity, perhaps (occasionally) at the price of rather stellar scores.</p>

<p>There's no denying that race played a substantial factor here.</p>

<p>As a white Amherst student from New England, I am SO thankful that Amherst emphasizes diversity. It has enriched my experience immeasurably, and I am very glad to not be sharing a school entirely with other haughty 2300 white and Asian kids, who think the world owes them something because they did well on a test once.</p>

<p>Unregistered makes me love Amherst students :)</p>

<p>
[quote]
As a white Amherst student from New England, I am SO thankful that Amherst emphasizes diversity. It has enriched my experience immeasurably, and I am very glad to not be sharing a school entirely with other haughty 2300 white and Asian kids, who think the world owes them something because they did well on a test once.

[/quote]
</p>

<p>Exactly. As a white male from a low-diversity town, being exposed to people from all sorts of different backgrounds has been an immensely valuable experience. I don't know the SAT scores of all the various minorities on campus and I don't care. Academically, they are just as competent as everybody else.</p>

<p>Kristina, what you said can be said about virtually all the elite schools in the nation. Diversity lends a great deal to the student experience, and these schools try to enrich your whole experience.</p>

<p>
[quote]
Academically, they are just as competent as everybody else.

[/quote]
</p>

<p>An excerpt from the Parent's Forum-thanks Roger Dooley</p>

<p>Don't Take It Personally by Joie Jager-Hyman</p>

<p>"For what it's worth, every student who is admitted to a top school--whether or not they play football or have parents who donated money--is qualified for admission and belongs there. And, plenty of athletes, legacies, students of color and even "creative loners" get rejected from selective universities each year, as do plenty of kids with great grades, high test scores and exceptional extracurricular resumes." </p>

<p><a href="http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/parents-forum/485168-forbes-three-op-ed-pieces-college-admissions.html%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/parents-forum/485168-forbes-three-op-ed-pieces-college-admissions.html&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p>

<p>Kristina and others, if this doesn't help you to gain some respect back, certainly it may aid you in gaining perspective.</p>

<p>I stand--slightly--corrected.</p>

<p>Please forgive the post-waitlist bitterness.</p>

<p>I understand this is a stressful time, so it is understandable. You're going to have an amazing college experience and forget Amherst ever existed, too.</p>

<p>You guys should check out the NY times story on Tony Jack, there's a link to it on the Amherst website. Talks about how low-income students are deprived of the resources to prepare for the tests like the SAT; this kid was accepted with a 1200, and did exceptionally well at Amherst.</p>

<p>However, the almost trite point that SAT scores do not necessarily lead to good college grade point is also a factor here, so the issue of diversity and low income is almost a side point to that issue. The real question pertinent to this thread is to what extent the lack of resources available to low-income students directly leads to lower SAT scores, which in turn directly affects admissions possibilities. If the extent is great, then Amherst is doing a good thing, and is justified in their search for diversity. If not (which would not by any means indicate they are not pursuing this endeavor with the best of intentions), it's really unfortunate that the politics of race have left whites and asians, albeit sometimes privileged whites and asians, embittered towards the system that seemingly refuses to recognize their merits, and arguably rightly so. In even more unfortunate cases, it leaves them embittered towards the race that ends up the beneficiary. A lot of this was discussed by Barack Obama in his recent speech on race, and I think he brings up some legitimate points.</p>

<p>To speak towards the issue of the lack of resources, I studied literally 0 seconds for the SAT, and I scored a 1520 out of 1600. My Critical Reading skills I can't really attribute to the benefit of better teaching; it was really the result of having read so extensively as a child and having a natural curiousity about the way language functions. My Math skills, admittedly, have been shaped by the teachers I have had, but not all too extensively... I mean let's be honest, the math on the SAT isn't ridiculously hard, it's pretty elementary. Both of these experiences lead me to believe that for upper level students, the kinds with the natural intelligence that Amherst is trying to draw, preparation for that type of test isn't as important as some might purport. (Clearly for average students it is much different; preparation obviously raises SAT scores.)</p>

<p>On the other hand, to take Tony Jack as an example, the article goes on to say he received an A+ in Calculus at Amherst- one of the few ever given by that teacher in 30 years of teaching. Clearly the propensity for mathematics was there; it's difficult to argue that a strong work ethic and decent intelligence could yield such stellar results at a school like amherst. So why didn't he score well (relatively) on the SAT?</p>

<p>The only thing I can think of is that most of the kids who attend Amherst would have been 1200 kids had they not studied either. Something tells me that intelligence is more prevalent amongst this constituency than that, though, so I'm having difficulty accepting that. I guess the only other possibility is that, despite clearly having a positive correlation with intelligence, SAT scores mean absolutely nothing when deciding who should be able to attend prestigious universities; rather qualities such as work ethic and capacity to learn difficult material should be more heavily considered. In which case this entire argument falls flat and the blame goes back to the college admissions process, something we knew from the start was flawed.</p>

<p>Guess this whole little rant didn't accomplish as much as I'd hoped. Oh well, at least I wasn't doing the copious amounts of homework I have waiting for me. Any thoughts? Anyone actually read that? I'd be impressed.</p>

<p>Everything is relative. It is true that some kids have many more resources to achieve well while others don't. A high school student needs to be judged how they use these resources. For an inner city kid, with little income, they should be rewarded for using the most they can around them as it reflects how they will succeed in the future. My daughter is waitlisted at Amherst which was the only time she cried thru this whole process. She in her heart felt she should get in there and the reality hit with that waitlist. The rejection from MIT was taken with grace but I know she was in love with MIT and had the stats, blah, blah, blah to get in there but she knew for anyone it was a long shot. What I learned was that nothing in the admissions process has changed in the 30 yrs since I applied except that the average SAT score has gone up! I would have never gotten into the school I went to today. I felt like I was reliving that nightmare all over again. As a parent though it is hard to see your great kid, who went above and beyond be rejected. What more can these kids do? My daughter is happy with her acceptances and most likely will not even stay on Amherst waitlist. She may not even stay on Princeton's waitlist but is thankful at least that Princeton is still interested in holding her name. Good luck to all. Your kids are all bright and will succeed anywhere. Don't look back with bitterness or regret. You can't change the past, just use what you've learned and help enrich your future.</p>