<p>I am currently a biology undergraduate, but I haven't taken too many courses so that it isn't too late to switch to something close. </p>
<p>I really enjoy math for biological systems/genetics/evolutionary biology/theoretical biology and things of that nature.</p>
<p>I want to go to grad school, but if I grew tired and just wanted to get a job after graduation, I'd like to be able to get a job as well. </p>
<p>So currently I am a biology major with a minor in math, but I've thought about switching to either Mathematical Biology or Biotechnology. Here are my concerns:</p>
<p>Could a mathematical biology major get a different job than a biology major with only a bachelors?</p>
<p>As far as biotech goes, could this degree be a stepping stone for a PhD in Bioinformatics, Theoretical Biology, Computational Biology, Evolutionary Biology, etc. I would be focusing my degree in bioinformatics, but it confuses me because the biotech majors only need up to Cal 1. Also, a lot of Bio courses are taken out and replaced with courses that relate more to the industry, (QC and things of that nature) so I don't know if it is bio-intensive enough to be able to get into most grad programs.</p>
<p>I am quite certain with a BS in Bio I could get into any Bio related grad program, I am just concerned about finding a job if I decide I don't want to go to school anymore or if my grads aren't good enough to get in.</p>
<p>Biotech is generally a more career-oriented major - as you’ve noticed there’s less math etc. Not really a good fit for a research-oriented student, especially one with a PhD in mind.</p>
<p>Bio and biomath are both academically serious majors. Biomath would be a very good fit if you’re interested in bioinformatics, but I would speak to your advisor and professors regarding your concerns about bio-intensiveness. They’d have a better sense of what PhD programs are looking for.</p>
<p>But in general, anything applied math-related is very good for getting a job.</p>
<p>Yeah that is what I have concluded from talking to other people, mainly my professors. At this point I’m between Bio with math minor or Mathematical Biology. The content isn’t too different I am just trying to find out which one “looks better.” Bioinformatics tends to be where my interests lie, I’ll talk to my advisor and see what they think is a better option. If you have anymore comments, let me know! Thanks.</p>
<p>I’ll give you a word of advice. Stick with computational biology and do a minor in CS if you insist on staying in this field. Given that the pharmaceutical world is a disaster, you could probably get a job in IT outside the field fairly easily (providing you do an internship and do research involving CS).</p>
<p>I’d also warn you against getting a PhD in the biosciences. While math/CS/engineering PhDs can get excellent jobs, many biology PhDs end up as permanent depressed postdocs working in temporary jobs for 35-40k a yr. I know, I’ve met many, and worked in research with some. Finding a job at the PhD level is very difficult. Finding a job with a BS/MS is easier but still usually involves working as a lab technician contractor for a larger pharmaceutical/biotech company, and still pays typically $12-20/hr with no benefits.</p>
<p>I did a biology degree and worked for a year as a temp on short term (often 1-3 month) contracts getting 12-18/hr without benefits. I realized an Msc wouldn’t improve my situation substantially, and worked with a lot of miserably depressed PhDs who were postdocs in academic labs. Instead I got a CLS license (took an extra year) and 1 month after graduating accepted a job for $22.50/hr + a sign on bonus at a large blood bank in a state with a VERY LOW cost of living (also OT usually available for those with a little experience). My grades are now good enough to apply to medical/dental/pa school which I plan to do in the next year or two. My point is if you want to work in a “biology-related” job try to go for healthcare. You can apply your science skills to real-world problems and not just useless journals no one reads. And you can make a real salary too because the demand is much higher than for research biologists. </p>
<p>Another little secret is individuals with clinical degrees can do clinical research for pharma/academia. Because they’re more important and implement the chemical research in clinical ways they’re often paid much better, and can often become heads of departments. Physicians in clinical trials in fortune 500 pharma can make 500k+ in managerial roles and will be immune from the layoffs of the drug discovery department (and most research fails, duh) further down the line due to the logistics of research.</p>
<p>Well I’m not really trying to get an industry job. I’m looking to go towards academia. However, it would be nice to have a degree that would allow me to easily work wherever for a decent salary. I have noticed that some of the researchers in mathematical bio and theoretical bio don’t even have biology backgrounds. Many are from either mathematics or CS. So I’m thinking on possibly picking up a CS minor with a biology or mathematical biology degree. I’ll find out later this week as I’ve gotten in contact with a professor at my university who works in theoretical bio and he said I could meet him later this week and talk about my goals and how to get there, etc. so I guess later this week or next ill have a little but more direction. </p>
<p>P.S. Worked as a pharm tech for about a year and a half. I will never work in the medical field. I do not have the patience to deal with some people.</p>
<p>Stay away from Pharma. R&D in the USA is dead as far as they’re concerned. Clinical trials are where the pharma jobs are because that is where they have to be to get a drug past the FDA. All the R&D however can and is being done in China, India etc.</p>
<p>With a BS in bio you will get crummy temp jobs with low pay and no benefits. With a PhD you will be a serf for 7 years then a crummy post-doc for many years after and probably still end up doing a career change after that.</p>
<p>Stay with math and programming and do not make science your primary focus. There are lot of science companies that need statisticians and programmers but lab personnel are like toilet paper cheap and disposible.</p>
<p>I understand that many people advise to stay away from the natsci majors so let me ask your opinion of this idea:</p>
<p>Would it be sensible to just major in math and minor in bio? I only need two more courses for a bio minor anyway. That way I can just focus on being more of a statistician but focus my work in the biological sciences? CS and programming is a little too out of the way for me. Plus, math undergraduate jobs are much better and more available than bio. What do you guys think?</p>
<p>Pharmacy is only one very narrow aspect of healthcare. And retail pharmacy only one subset of pharmacy (and that aspect of pharmacy is currently facing a job crunch as more Rx’s get filled online or by machines). Any jobs within the pathology field of medicine (CLS, histotechnician, Pathologist’s Assistant, Pathologist) will also involve virtually no patient contact.</p>
<p>That said it sounds like you want to do research. What you don’t understand is you can be a researcher with an MD, DDS, PharmD. All these degrees can lead to clinical research roles in industry or academia. Of course your research will involve clinical medicine and monitoring patients, but most jobs require some person-person interaction. </p>
<p>If you don’t want to study medicine in any capacity, why even bother with biology? Just change your bio minor to a CS minor. Otherwise a math/bio combination could allow you to get an office finance/programming position and take all the prerequisites for all the healthcare professions later while you work (not a bad idea actually).</p>
<p>Jls and Sschoe basically summed up all the horrors working in Biology and Pharma, same applies to Biochem and Chemistry. I had the same experiences (But worse, I had the crummiest and crappiest lab tech jobs on earth with sleaze ball supervisors who lied and made every excuse in the book to never promote you. Carrot on a fishing pole delusional promises, where no matter how hard I worked and jumped, I never touched the carrot. I regret everyday wasting my life and time at those jobs! Now, I can run my own clinic and be my own boss one day.) as the both of them, and Jls is so right about going into healthcare if you plan to major in biology. A lot of jobs in Pharma are going to Chinida and more hiring of H1-B slaves over here.</p>
<p>I am in medical school now, and you do apply topics in science relevant to the field of medicine than some dusted up old journals no one cares about. If you don’t want to go into healthcare, you best best is to go into math or computers. A lot of promise in those fields.</p>
<p>“If you don’t want to study medicine in any capacity, why even bother with biology?”</p>
<p>There’s much more to biology than medicine and pathology. Like I said in my first post, looking to do evolution/genetics work. Everything with heathcare has a huge X on it as it doesn’t interest me at all.</p>
<p>To sum up my main focus of concerns; essentially, I’m looking for a degree that will allow me to continue on to evolution/theoretical bio/genetics grad school, but will allow me to find some decent jobs if I end up stopping school after getting my bachelors. I have an appointment next week with a theoretical biology researcher at my uni, and then hopefully I will find out if getting my degree in mathematical bio is a good move.</p>
<p>Also, unfortunately, my university does not have a degree in computational biology, these are pretty much my only option:</p>
<p>BS in bio w/minor in math/CS
BS in biochem
BS in mathematical bio
BS in Biotechnology</p>
<p>If I were you, I would get some skills, certificates, internships, attend conferences, etc. This will help separate you from the others who will have the same degree as you. What I failed to mention is that, a lot of these jobs in science are highly specific. If you get the training and certification you need, you will be at a great advantage. If I were to stay in the sciences and not go into medicine, I would have done that. Going to graduate school only in the sciences is not enough. A lot of people have these degrees you wanna stick out. Hope this helps and good luck!</p>
<p>I still would avoid graduate school in biology. If you want to do graduate school in the field I would probably go for a PhD in biomedical engineering, and then get as much work in with statistical modeling and mechanical/electrical engineering as I could. That’s also a mediocre field but the degree would show strong math and other transferrable skills that would at least make you an attractive candidate for a variety of jobs. Again, literally 99% of biology PhDs don’t get a tenure track position, so you need to leave your options open. </p>
<p>Still I urge you not to write off medicine, particularly clinical research. I’m just letting you know it’s a much better option than a biomedical PhD. Even after 200k in loans its a much wiser career move, and one a lot of PhDs in biology usually regret. In addition to much better job stability and pay, you’ll have better access to clinical samples necessary for your research. And you can see the direct impact of your research on the health of others, something which makes it way more meaningful.</p>
<p>If you want to go into research, I don’t see why it would be better to get a clinical degree (MD, PharmD) instead of a PhD. Clinical degrees don’t give you a research training, so you have to learn it in post-docs, which can be hard to get without a research degree. With a research goal, a research degree is the way to go. If you want to go into the clinical side, an MD is required to run clinical trials. However, you can still be part of a team doing clinical research without an MD. You could also go for an MD/PhD if you want to sacrifice the rest of your life to the clinical science gods.</p>
<p>You shouldn’t get an MD just to “keep your options open”, I don’t think; it’s not that kind of degree. @jlsperling, what makes you say that bio PhDs regret not spending $200,000 on a medical degree? I have heard of the reverse - people who choose medical school over research for long term money/career prospects, then get frustrated 2 years in because they realize they can’t produce knowledge or make significant contributions like they could if they had taken the research route. This is one of the factors that influenced me to go for the PhD route.</p>
<p>Yes at my school our entire Pharm department has only 1 PharmD doing research. I think the medical programs are not as good for research because they have classes on things such as patient care, how to run a pharmacy, etc; while PhD programs only focus on science.</p>
<p>MDs do just as much if not more relevant research than PhDs. You’re also forgetting about academic medicine. The OP indicated he/she was interested in academic careers. A physician, dentist, or Pharm D can all get a post doc post training (just like a PhD) and then apply for professorships. Their jobs will involve research and how it applies to clinical situations, in addition to seeing some patients. They will likely work in clinical trials at large academic centers. Their chance of achieving tenure is better, and their salaries will be higher, even after accounting for loans. (Physicians have the best options here for research obviously however)</p>
<p>When I worked in an academic laboratory working on Lyme Disease several years ago we referred mostly to papers by Alan Steere who had done most of the initial disease research. Initial AIDS research was carried out mostly by physicians, and the papers they published ended up in major medical journals that are referred to on a regular basis. I now work in a blood bank, and the only relevant name we know at our lab is an MD named Karl Landsteiner, who discovered ABO compatibility.</p>
<p>You forget 99% of biology PhDs don’t achieve tenure (actual statistic from the NSF). Where do the rest end up? I can assure you the biotech industry cannot even come close to absorbing the glut of PhDs in biology. The rest end up doing something else: high school teaching, administration, marketing for medical companies, science writing, post-docs (huge amount), but things that don’t really utilize their education effectively, and often aren’t that high-paying. </p>
<p>Again if you really want to do a PhD, do some kind of engineering/computer science. Those skills can be transferred to a variety of lucrative jobs in a variety of fields ranging from IT to finance to biotech. And many companies are just dying for high level research engineers/software developers. Biology PhDs often end up doing multiple postdocs before leaving the field, and making terrible salaries the entire time. You see the demand for research biologists just isn’t very high, and to make it worse their education is often so esoteric and specialized, that if they do get a job and then lose it (which happens frequently in R & D), that it can be very difficult to get another.</p>
<p>If you already find yourself with a useless biology PhD and in an interminable string of postdocs for 36k per annum, I’d recommend getting an RN. The country is dying for qualified nursing instructors, and even they can do some research.</p>