This is my first kid going to college, Second one is in line for 2020 cycle. I become nervous when I see left and right these 2400/4.0/800/800/800 kids being denied left and right. And my family $$$$$ need on top of this makes matter worse. But as I see that boys are more in problem than girls, so trying to figure it out based on data.
Just simply trying to be more informed before applying to colleges. Trying to see what steps needs to be taken to improve probability based outcome. I am an analytical person.
@ultapradesh As I said above, it’s obvious that the average qualified female applicant has a better chance of being admitted to hyperselective tech colleges than the average qualified male applicant. So what? That means absolutely nothing practical for you daughter or her college application strategy. It means that the low chance she has of being accepted at the most respected institutions is a little less low than it would be if she were the same applicant, but a boy. That and a couple dollars can get her a coffee at Starbucks. If you had a portfolio of a few hundred daughters, that difference would matter a lot; with just one daughter, not so much.
Your daughter sounds like a very accomplished student, which will make her a competitive applicant anywhere she applies. There isn’t anywhere that she shouldn’t apply. But there’s essentially nothing you can do strategically to improve the odds her skills, personality, and, yes, gender provide, and those odds are probably still considerably below 50% for the top schools. (For RPI, WPI, Rose-Hulman, other schools that have a history of struggling to attract women, her chances will be a lot better. You know that. But I think significant merit aid will still be less certain.)
Anecdote: Our best friends’ daughter, 6 or 7 years ago. At or near the very top of her class at a well-known, very rigorous private school. Did extremely well in accelerated math. Strong interest in computer science. Had done some hacking and app development, but not with the intensity of lots of boys. Also made films. Near perfect test scores, highest scores possible in everything math related. When she applied to college, she wound up with lots of great options, including Carnegie-Mellon’s School of Computer Science. But her options didn’t include her top three choices, MIT, Stanford, and Princeton, all of which rejected her.
“it’s obvious that the average qualified female applicant has a better chance of being admitted to hyperselective tech colleges than the average qualified male applicant. So what? That means absolutely nothing practical for you daughter or her college application strategy.”
That actually means a lot and should be a key piece of the application strategy. As ultapradesh posted, girls with high stats can look at WPI as a safety, RPI as a match, if not safety since RPI has good FA as well. CMU, Tufts would be more matches than reaches. Yes HYPS will still be lottery-esque unless you have another hook (first gen, urm). A lot may also depend on the high school track record, in the bay area e.g. the top 4-5 girls in the best high schools get into Cal Tech and/or MIT, many of them EA.
While overall rates may favor Women at certain schools you’d also have to be wary of gender clustering in specific majors. While the schools don’t admit on specific majors they do consider them when making admission decisions. So a female applying to MIT and expressing a preference and having a background pointing to Brain and Cognitive Science most likely will not get a boost as that major is mainly female.
@jhs I understand what you are saying. All I am doing is taking a estimate and gauging factors that may or may not result in favourable outcome. @theloniusmonk I am hoping that daughter’s school which sent more than 20% kids each year to IVY plus colleges, that kind of track record will help her.
@Dolemite daughter has no interest in brain and cognitive science unless she redirect her career to quant fudning. She loves math as it is a problem solver and she is a very deep thinker. Since early childhood she has accelerated in math and was fascinated with proof based ideas. She is a very social person and loves history as much as math.
I think it is also possible that the girls applying to tech-heavy schools might have better stats than the boys, on average, thus the higher admit rate. There is a very real phenomenon called “impostor syndrome” such that girls and boys with similar stats don’t evaluate their own qualifications equally.
I can certainly imagine that a girl with “pretty good” math scores wouldn’t dream of applying to someplace like WPI, while a boy might have more confidence. It’s impossible to know without info on the applicants’ stats.
@donnaleighg I think the factor you describe exists, but there’s no way it can account for the large difference in admission rate between boys and girls. Yes, there may be more boys applying with lower qualifications, but I also suspect that if you look at the most-qualified applicants in math and computer science, those are going to be disproportionately boys, too. (To be clear: For reasons that do not necessarily have anything to do with natural ability, and may have lots to do with social constructs.) And while girls may underestimate their qualifications, very few of those with a legitimate chance of admission to high-prestige tech schools are unaware that being a girl may give them a better chance of admission. There are lots of incentives for girls to apply, even if they secretly doubt they are awesome enough to get in.
Lots of information is not readily available. that is why people like me flock to CC and ask stupid questions as can not hire a professional to maneuver college admissions
What “stigma is working against females”, @CU123? Are you saying the admissions offices are stigmatizing them? Fellow students? Employers? Or did you mean to use some other word?
My D the STEM PhD student would say there are a few misogynist dinosaurs around (and not all of them are old). But there are a lot of profs, post-docs, and TAs who are supportive of women (and more and more of them are women, like my D the TA).
@ultrapradesh, the female admit rate for MIT is still 12%. That is not a slam dunk for anyone. Is your D involved in USACO? Competing at the highest levels there can be a differentiator.
Many of the students she’ll be competing with for admission at the top math/CS schools have already taken MV Calc.
My math/CS son decided against several schools because of 1) the paucity of women majoring in the field and 2) the way those who did major in math/CS treated. My former DIL works for a major SV company (math/CS major) and she has told many stories of harassment and questioning of her abilities. It’s real and pervasive, and it is a deterrent to some young women who have the goods to succeed in the field.
I think what @donnaleighg points out may be more true than some would believe, and I think there are several factors that prevent female applicants from applying to the top tech school. First, they self-select. We see the same thing with my daughter’s school - and engineering magnet school with an entry lottery (and no pre-qualification). The girls that apply are generally strong in math and science, the boys not as much. Most of the girls are clustered in the top of the class, and the “remedial” (regular grade level) math classes are almost exclusively male. Girls who are not strong in those areas don’t apply, those who get in and struggle leave fairly quickly.
Beyond self-selection, there is the ratio itself that turns off many female applicants. Even if they apply as incoming freshmen, if they don’t enjoy equal opportunities, many will change majors to another department where their contributions are more welcome. It takes thick skin to stay where you’re not welcome. Many young women discover they need to be “that much better” to be taken seriously by their male peers.
I agree totally with @CTScoutmom and @CU123 it can be a difficult world for women in either math or CS. A lot people picture the nerdy boy as a good math student and simply have trouble believing that a good looking woman with blond hair could ever be good with math