Low GRE scores and GPA...the path to ivy league?

Graduate School
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<p>plscatamacchia,</p>

<p>I have already explained in other posts why I could not afford the book and did not buy it.</p>

<p>At this point in time, I have at the least, about 10000 euros saved up from work. This was not the case when I was studying for the test.</p>

<p>I don’t think that if a college aged student has parents with careers that earn a modest income are not connected to reality. I think someone who think that the GRE test fee would be insignificant to people on a minimum wage job is disconnected from reality.</p>

<p>The advice that I can eventually get admitted to an MA, and then a PhD program has been given by many people in this thread. What they have all said is that as things stand at the moment I have no chance.</p>

<p>As for learning languages, I have been learning mandarin for quite a while now, which I mentioned previously. As WilliamC mentioned, there are semester/year courses that can brush me up on what I will need to know, which will at least be sufficient enough for a PhD program.</p>

<p>As I said, there were other circumstances influencing my decision not to learn German while in Germany…as I have explained. </p>

<p>I am also hopeful that misconceptions can be clarified, and that misunderstandings can be rectified. </p>

<p>dntw8up,</p>

<p>Thanks. I thought as much, but thought I would ask. And yes, I could have checked this on the ETS website, but it occurred to me while I was typing a reply, so I thought I would ask on here.</p>

<p>It is no doubt going to work against me, having two low scores, but I will have to work that much harder to overcome it.</p>

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<p>I’ve been reading this thread over the course of two days (the entire thing). It dragged on at points but overall it was rather entertaining.</p>

<p>[edited out inappropriate comments re another poster - Mod JEM]
Josh, why don’t you just do an online PhD? You obviously have experience with online education and it works for you (you’ve done multiple degrees that way). </p>

<p>Let me just reiterate what 99.5% of the participants in this thread have said to you: YOU HAVE NO CHANCE OF STUDYING AT A SCHOOL IN THE UNITED STATES, LET ALONE AN ELITE PROGRAM LIKE NYU OR COLUMBIA. YOU’RE GOING TO HAVE TO LET THIS DREAM GO.</p>

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<p>Once again, we have someone posting without having bothered to actually read the thread.</p>

<p>If you had read the thread, you would have seen that quite a few people were saying if I:</p>

<p>1) Get outstanding/perhaps decent LOR’s from academic staff
2) retake the GRE’s and get over 700 in each section
3) Take some catchup classes for missing prerequisite knowledge, and do well
4) gain entry to an MA program in the states. Not an elite or top 20 university, but a midlevel/decent school.
5) Develop strong relationships with professors there, get an INCREDIBLE GPA
6) Do strong original/innovative research</p>

<p>That I would have a shot at a PhD program at a top university. Perhaps not at an ivy or even top 1, but certainly into some schools.</p>

<p>The above is what I have gathered from the people who actually read my replies, and bothered to help me. Can you tell me why if I follow their advice and follow the above steps, I would still have no chance?</p>

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<h1>2 is what you will never get past. Why? You do not have fundamental high school math skills. That is all…</h1>

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<p>That is just closeminded, and unnecessarily negative. I can already get 6.0 in analytical, and 510 in verbal. With a few more months of study, 700 quantitative and 700 verbal is certainly within my reach. I know that I am capable , and I will be dedicated all my time and effort to this at some point in the next year.</p>

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<p>“I’ve been reading this thread over the course of two days (the entire thing).”</p>

<p>“Once again, we have someone posting without having bothered to actually read the thread.”</p>

<p>Oh, and you lack reading comprehension skills.</p>

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<p>Not at all. As with yourself, what he posted was shown to be incorrect, as the content of his post contradicted his statement. I can only assume, he, you, and other posters who post only negative comments ignoring what I have previously explained meant to sat “skimmed” instead of “read”.</p>

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<p>What did he post that was contradictory?</p>

<p>And what did all the other people who were wrong post that showed that they had not read? That is all you do, people lay it out for you and you say “Nope you didn’t read the thread and you are wrong”.</p>

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<p>This would be an example of you lacking reading comprehension skills.</p>

<p>When certain people claim to have read the thread, this is contradicted by the content in their posts, which makes statements clearly contradicting what has been stated/clarified/resolved in the thread previously, and shows that they did not in fact read the thread.</p>

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<p>Wow. I want you to take a quote of his and breakdown why it is contradictory instead of just bs’ing. Thanks.</p>

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<p>Well, most of your posts would serve as far better examples, but OK. I’ll bite.</p>

<p>He ignored the reasons I gave for not studying German while living in Germany. It’s one thing to disagree with it, and another to ignore it completely.</p>

<p>He stated that 99.5% of the people in the thread have said the same thing. Most people have actually been helpful, and while telling me I have no chance AT THE MOMENT, have said I may have chances if I follow certain steps. Such as the steps I listed above.</p>

<p>I’m not going to reply to you again, as you are only posting to criticise, which isn’t terribly useful, or realistic. I will be open to any realistic ideas you can give why I won’t have a chancer after following the steps above.</p>

<p>Although, I have to say, I find it disheartening at the least, that you don’t think people who lack a complete high school education are capable of bettering themselves, taking classes and preparing for the GRE, and doing very well on the test.</p>

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<p>Interesting thread for sure.</p>

<p>I think that even terminal MAs are going to be pretty tough to get into right now, due to the crappy economy. More people are seeking education because job opportunities are so thin. Schools are also trim back funds.</p>

<p>I have to question your lack of LORs though. You had teachers, didn’t you? And you have said that your grades were pretty special. I would think that teachers would remember you if that was the case. I did my first two years of undergrad online, and yet I was able to build enough of a relationship online that I received several glowing letters of recommendation from teachers who only knew me through the work I had done in their class. Sometimes it helps to send a copy of your work to them, to jog their memory.</p>

<p>I know you think the naysayers on this thread are being hard, but you gotta realize, doctoral programs are tough. Acceptance rates are 5-20%, and then only 50% of those who get in actually finish. It is a tough tough road to hoe and not one to be entered into lightly. And you really seem to know very little about the US graduate system. I think many who read this are trying to save you some heartache.</p>

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<p>Let me try a different approach =):</p>

<p>“I think many who read this are trying to save you some heartache.”</p>

<p>YES, THIS!</p>

<p>The reason people have been rather negative is because you have been very dismissive to the most honest of people who have told you the bare truth: It’s just not going to happen.</p>

<p>You have a right to be proud of the degrees you have earned, but pride can only carry you so far, and often times people’s pride takes them too far. You’ve let your pride take you to far and are not allowing the truth to sink in. The application and testing fees alone are not worth your trouble if you are having financial problems. </p>

<p>It’s not like you came in with just low GREs. You came in with a MOUNTAIN of problems. Problems that at this stage in your life, are nearly impossible to overcome. You took people telling you what you needed to do as people saying it was possible. The things you would need to do to even compete are going to take YEARS.</p>

<p>The biggest, glaring hole you seem to dismiss is your lack of high school education Josh. In the US a story about someone who did not finish high school but then went on to complete a PhD would be an incredible story. Why? Because it never happens. You are talking about missing out on some of (if not THE) the most important years of establishing fundamental skills and then jumping to the highest level of education one can achieve. </p>

<p>And the GRE scores. Man if you were able to improve you scores as much as you need than that would be incredible. The fact is people do not ace the GRE by just studying a ton. It doesn’t happen. You need a core set of skills coupled with some good REVIEW. People will study their butts off to score just a bit higher. You are talking about going from below average to well above it, which is (barring a miracle/luck) not possible. Standardized Tests are meant to measure basic knowledge of fundamental education. They are often used to measure IQs. It is the reason why you cannot get in to prestigious schools based on these scores alone. If your GPA is lacking it shows that you are smart, but lack motivation. You are the opposite. Your “good” GPA of your ONLINE masters degrees shows you know how to work, but your GRE shows me you lack certain skills needed in the US to complete a rigorous academic program. These scores will not improve as much as you need unless you can start from the beginning, which at this point you can’t. </p>

<p>Now someone missing out on a HS education and following it up with an online Masters…that would be a lot more common. You seem to think that as long as you can get into a MA program that you can do a PhD. Thats just not true. The difference between the MA and the PhD is a vast one. </p>

<p>Josh, I tried to come at you at lot more logically and just lay out the situation. You can either continue what you’ve been doing with people who say this by dismissing their comments as insulting and arrogant or you can take it as my advice. </p>

<p>You have proven only one thing to me: what we say doesn’t matter. If that is the case, by all means, spend the THOUSANDS of dollars you will need simply to become an candidate that will not have your application thrown out in the first round.</p>

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<p>Josh,</p>

<p>

</p>

<p>Then you haven’t been looking hard enough. Google “EducationUSA Advising Centers Germany” and look at the factsheet for the one closest to you (they’re all over the country). The factsheet will tell you where the EducationUSA library is. </p>

<p>I don’t speak any German beyond basics picked up when flying through Frankfurt, but I found 14 GRE books in the online catalog of the Zentral und Landsbibliothek Berlin. Sure, they’re outdated, but a lot of them are math prep books which would be useful for you. British Council centers, which are all over the place, too, would have free GRE books you can check out as well.</p>

<p>You said that a certain amount of preparation would be “sufficient” for PhD programs, but in the US, “sufficient” often isn’t good enough because it’s insanely competitive. You have to be competitive. That means that a couple of years of language study, for instance, could be “sufficient” to handle the material, but you’d be up against people who are competitive for those programs. In this regard, you should really take advantage of living in Germany, even if your colleagues all speak English.</p>

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<p>Well, I think this thread has just about run its course, aside from people only continuing to blindly post negative comments.</p>

<p>captiv8ed,</p>

<p>If you look through the thread, you will see that the lack of LOR’s has been explained a few times. In any event, I have emailed my lectures and received one promising reply, so we will see.</p>

<p>plscatamacchia,</p>

<p>Once again you are making assumptions. You are vastly overestimating the importance og high school, and if you get over your assumptions, you will likely find there are quite a few people who did not finish high school who went on to accomplish great things, even academically, even getting a PhD. As I said, I think it’s quite disheartening that you don’t think someone without a highschool education can better themselves and do well on the phd.</p>

<p>If I thought a lack of high school education(I should stress not a complete lack of high school education) was anywhere as much an issue, then I could just get an International Baccalaureate. Problem solved, as most US universities accept it.</p>

<p>[International</a> Baccalaureate (IB)](<a href=“http://www.ibo.org%5DInternational”>http://www.ibo.org)</p>

<p>You probably would have thought people who didn’t finish HS were incapable of completing a research masters degree in CS as well, even though I have. And It was in no way a terminal degree. I’m not overly proud of my degrees, anymore than is reasonable, I just know they should not be dismissed like some people are so keen to do.</p>

<p>Also, Please do not be so dismissive of my degrees. They are not simply “online degrees” like you have in the states. They are degrees from a very real, accredited and highly ranking unviersity in australia, thatt required a physical presence for exam. The only difference is I submitted assignments electronically, and listened to lectures via a webcast. I changed my status to external, they are most certainly not “online degrees”.</p>

<p>What you say doesn’t matter because you have not bothered to read the thread. What a great many posters have said has been invaluable.</p>

<p>You seem to admit the steps I outlined above will be enough to give me a good chance to accomplish my goals. The problem you are having is that you don’t think it is possible that I can complete the steps. All I can say t that, is that in the face of ambition, hard work and effort, the GRE will become trivial to do well on. I guarantee I will do excellently the next time I take it.</p>

<p>kigali,</p>

<p>I was not looking hard enough, you’re right. As I said back when books were first brought up and everyone started making such a big deal about it, I underestimated the value of the book and relied on a heap of online materials and the powerprep software.</p>

<p>Sufficient was the wrong word to use, I understand I have to be competitive. I am leaving Germany in September, so will not be able to take advantage of this. IN retrospect, I should have, but there were other circumstances influencing my decision not to do this. If I proceed down the AH path, then I will take classes to resume learning german.</p>

<p>Thanks for your reply.</p>

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<p>Josh, IB diplomas are only available to high school students at IB accredited schools. You wouldn’t be eligible for it. It’s not the diploma that matters, it’s the knowledge base - in your case, specifically in math.</p>

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<p>^Exactly. Even if you had a diploma, if you came in and said I don’t understand some fundamental math than I still would have said the same thing. It’s not just the diploma you lack, it’s the knowledge.</p>

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<p>kigali,</p>

<p>I forgot that IB diplomas are only available to 16-19 year olds. In any case, the point I was trying to make is that there are many ways to acquire the basic prerequisite knowledge and have this recognised.</p>

<p>In any event, I agree, it is the knowledge which is important, and as I have been saying, I will make that up with study. There is absolutely no reason I can not acquire the knowledge I need, and get an exceptional test score. It’s a shame some people have such a poor faith in basic human ability.</p>

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<p>You’re right Josh. It’s just that simple. If you score below average you can just study really hard and then do “exceptional.” Man, forget PhDs! You should just be paid to come to the US and go around to colleges and high school to speak of your new, amazing program to exceptional standardized test scores! </p>

<p>Give me a break…If it were that easy than everyone would be acing the tests. You don’t have the solution to this problems. Millions of people take theses tests each time they are offered, and come out with (like your scores) below average results. If it were easy to just study for 6 months and then ace it schools would offer full time classes every year devoted to just taking these tests. They don’t you are given 12 years of education to develop the skills needed for these tests. </p>

<p>I mean honestly. Say someone comes out of HS with good a GPA but were lacking in the standardized test part. They would probably be cut out of a lot of places. Why, if it were as easy as you say it is, wouldn’t all of these people be waiting a semester, so they can study for 6 months, and retake it to get into a better school? Because people understand that there scores are not going to go up dramatically, like you need.</p>

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<p>If everything else in the OP’s app was good, he would still need to bring up his Q to 700+ for an even modest CS program but could get by with more modest 60-70 point improvements in both Q and V for AH.</p>

<p>With the GRE’s you can figure on a swing of up to 100 points per test with dedicated preparation. Beyond that you need some real fundamental effort, more than just 6 months of GRE prep. At the very least, for Q your scores indicate you need to go back to the basics - get textbooks on algebra, geometry, and trig and work through them over the course of a couple of years. If your deficiencies are more closely related to testing issues, you may be to bring your GRE scores up to a point where they would pass for AH in some schools.</p>

<p>Please note that this is all assuming everything else is okay. Which it is not.</p>

<p>Josh, the skepticism here is for two reasons. </p>

<p>First, the results in the commercial are not typical, most fat guys remain fat despite Jared, and most people with your history and your attitude fail. You have dug yourself into a substantial hole, and have not demonstrated any traits besides enthusiasm that would suggest you have the ability to work your way out. If you took a thousand people such as yourself, I would be surprised if even 1 was able to get a PhD from a top-50 US university.</p>

<p>Second, you are blithely laying claim to an ability to surpass a great many people on this forum who have had to work very hard to get to the position where they have a real shot at a PhD. Your statements marginalize the years of study,effort, and application preparation that it took most of the posters here just so that they could be rejected by half the programs to which they applied. Told that your chances are 1 in thousand it seems all you hear is “so there IS a chance!”</p>

<p>Again, good luck!</p>