<p>My sister just finished taking her LSAT and she is rather upset with her score.
She has worked harder than anyone I know to study for her LSAT. She received a 147. Also, her GPA is about 2.5 because her major is electrical engineering and the average electrical engineering GPA is around there.
Does she have any chance for any law schools? What are some possible ones? Any in California? Any feedback would be great. Thank you!</p>
<p>I took these from the Boston college Law School Locator.
As you can probably guess the two number represent the
25th and 75th precentile of scores.</p>
<p>Here is the link:
<a href="http://www.bc.edu/offices/careers/gradschool/law/lawlocator/#the25%5B/url%5D">http://www.bc.edu/offices/careers/gradschool/law/lawlocator/#the25</a></p>
<p>Golden Gate U. Law 2.76-3.36, 148-154
Barry University of Law 2.74-3.35, 145-152
Widener U. School of Law 2.74-3.41, 148-151
Roger Williams School of Law 2.73-3.39, 148-154
Touro College Law Center 2.72-3.34, 147-152<br>
Western State University 2.71-3.21, 145-149<br>
District of Columbia (U .of) Clarke 2.69-3.27, 146-153
Thomas Jefferson School of Law 2.66-3.3, 146-156
Florida Coastal School of Law 2.65-3.27, 148-152
Western New England College of Law2.65-3.43, 149-155
St. Thomas University - Florida 2.56-3.21, 148-152
Thomas M. Cooley Law School 2.6-3.22 142-148
Appalachian School of Law 2.53-3.24, 144-150
Southern University School of Law 2.53-3.09, 141-148
Texas Southern U. School of Law 2.46-3.15, 143-148</p>
<p>Hope this helps</p>
<p>The BC law locator is decent, but not great. I'll throw in some experience here.</p>
<p>The EE major will help her, but her GPA is low (even for engineering), and her LSAT doesn't show that she's just in a hard major. Look at lsac.org, go to the toolbars on the left, and you can find a law school locator. Plug in GPA and LSAT, and you'll get chances (updated 2003, which is old) for her. </p>
<p>Her LSAT is probably around the 45th percentile, which is rough. I don't mean to be pessimistic, but she is going to have a rough go of getting in anywhere. Roughly 40% of applicants don't get in anywhere. She'll be in the bottom of GPA (understandably) and LSAT for even fourth-tier schools.</p>
<p>That said - she should retake the LSAT when she can score at least a 155-160. They will probably average her two scores. If she did poorly on the SATs, she needs to tell the law schools that. It will prove that she doesn't test well. She'll also need to find out the average GPA of EEs - and hope that she's at least in the middle of the pack.</p>
<p>If she really wants law school, I would not recommend going right out of college. Work experience or a master's degree will help immensely, as it will give admissions something else to base their decision on. She really needs to build up a resume beyond LSAT and GPA, and it's not easy.</p>
<p>My experience: chemical engineer, double-majored, 98th percentile LSAT, really good school, five years of work experience, higher GPA, and medical problems during undergrad, like getting hit by a car before finals. I still had a rough go of getting into law school, mostly from the GPA, although I had the name school, the resume, the second major, and LSAT to help me out. Your sister doesn't have the LSAT, may or may not have work experience, and may or may not have the good school. It isn't an easy road for anyone. Admissions is so GPA based anyway... best way to get around the engin. GPA is to have loads of other stuff to demonstrate that you are capable and talented. </p>
<p>I would caution against applying to unaccredited law schools, as, unless she just wants the degree, it will be very tough for her to get a job or pass the bar. Might be better to take a few years to paralegal or whatever.</p>
<p>LSAT studying: did she go over every question while taking practice tests to figure out where she went wrong? Once you understand what the question is asking, it's a lot easier to do well. </p>
<p>That's about it... let me know if you have more questions.</p>
<p>If you take the lsat twice they average the scores?</p>
<p>I found this but dont know exactly how to interpert it:</p>
<p>If you believe that your test score does not reflect your true ability, you should consider taking the test again. Data show that scores for repeat test takers often rise slightly. However, be aware that your scores may drop. You should also notify law schools of any facts relevant to the interpretation of your test results, such as illness or extenuating circumstances. If there is no reason to believe that one score represents a truer estimate of an applicants ability, schools are advised that the average score is probably the best estimate of abilityespecially if the tests were taken over short period of time. Law Schools must have access to your complete test record, not just the highest score; therefore, LSAC will not honor requests for partial score reports.</p>
<p>Your scores will be averaged by most law schools.</p>
<p>I agree with a retake. She should also take a LSAT course and study for the test, with a tutor if this is financially possible. I also recommend taking some courses during this time as those can bring up the GPA. This is a course of action that my son would take if he should be interested in professional school in the future, and he is currently taking some business courses at night. (He graduated this year and is now working full time). I would not recommend just picking the courses out of air but coming up with some plan as to how the selected courses can benefit her. For instance, she is interested in tax law, some tax courses would be of benefit. As an engineer, perhaps some technical writing courses with an eye towards patent law. All just examples. </p>
<p>I know kids who are doing this who have low GPAs and want to go to Med school as well. Some do get in, upon raising their grades. </p>
<p>This will delay lawschool for a couple of years but will open up the options for your sister.</p>
<p>I think it's worth mentioning that there is a fundamental difference between a lower tier law school and a lower tier med school. A graduate of even the lowest ranked med school is nearly 100% employable as a physician and quite likely to do as well financially as a graduate from a top rated school. In law, that is not the case. I do not know what the data are, but I suspect most grads of lower ranked law schools could have done better by investing their time (and money) in achieving greater seniority in another field.</p>
<p>Dr. Sedrish, I am not so sure I would agree with your premise. I acknowledge that one's first job out of school is likely to be better paying, and perhaps more prestigious, having attending a top tier law school. But employment, and ultimately money, in law seems to have a heavy regional feel. And, money and pretige does not always seem to go hand-in-hand. I know many partners at mid-level firms, who graduated from second tier schools, that make tons of money -- at least as much as those at more presitgious firms. </p>
<p>There are also those students at top-tier schools that opt for government jobs, or work in poverty law centers.</p>
<p>And, don't get me started on those who bumpled their way through 3rd tier schools only to have a great personal injury case land at their door.</p>
<p>Of course what I said was I wish I knew the data precisely, but this site gives an image of the linear relationship between school rankings and income (both public & private sector): </p>
<p>...as well as an idea of what degree of unemployment accompanies these lower tier schools:</p>
<p>There are exceptions of course, but if you were to graph these things, I think most of the dots would cluster near the lines.</p>
<p>Well, that is the fascinating thing about rankings, you can have them say almost anything you like. So, with that in mind, I would suggest that BC & BU are second tier schools, with top tier salaries. Why, strong regional schools in a strong geographical area.</p>
<p>As another example, and one I am very familiar with, the U. of Oregon is listed at 120th in the salary chart, yet is s second tier school (#60 or so in the rankings). But, the Oregon legal market is historically weak, and thus the salaries are low.</p>
<p>Based on the data, and if $$ is a criteria for selecting a law school, I would say 1) try to get into a school that is National in scope: Harvard, Yale and the usual list of suspects. 2) try to get into a regional, second tier school in a favorable economic locale, like NY, Boston, Chi, LA, SF. That is at least what my experience, and the data seems to suggest.</p>
<p>I think there seems to be confusion about salary vs. location. Let's face it - almost all jobs tend to be better paying in places that have high costs of living. So, yeah, you might be making more money by working in, say, New York, but since the cost of living is so high, will you really have a lot of takehome money at the end of the day? Does it really matter if you make a lot of money if you have to spend it all just to be able to live?</p>
<p>concerneddad: I agree with you 100%. My comments were directed to sepi, whose sister is looking at law school from a 147/2.5 perspective. This is likely to be neither a 1st nor a 2nd tier school. I just don't think most folks who invest in a 4th tier school will ever make up the income they lost by not working full time for those 3 years plus their tuition. In addition, they also lose seniority/promotions/benefits/retirement at their workplace, which can be serious setbacks.</p>
<p>sakky: The income vs locale thing is another example of an issue that plays bigger for lawyers than for docs. Docs in cruddy places tend to make more than docs in desirable places, and I'm talking gross income, not net (the net would be an even greater discrepancy). In my own case, I had starting offers in 1990 of $80,000 in San Diego & $325,000 in Harlingen.</p>
<p>Yes, Dr. Sedrish, i would tend to agree with you that 4th tier schools do not lead to a lot of opportunity, other than hanging out a shingle and taking whatever walks in the door. Generally not a very lucrative way to practice law.</p>
<p>"I think it's worth mentioning that there is a fundamental difference between a lower tier law school and a lower tier med school. A graduate of even the lowest ranked med school is nearly 100% employable as a physician and quite likely to do as well financially as a graduate from a top rated school. In law, that is not the case. I do not know what the data are, but I suspect most grads of lower ranked law schools could have done better by investing their time (and money) in achieving greater seniority in another field."</p>
<p>Yes, brilliant. Guess that's why you are a moderator.</p>
<p>thinking: Though I suspect your comment was facetitious, maybe you could explain why you found it an unworthy point to have made in this setting. My intent was to point out that employability in some cases is not automatic and that that should perhaps be considered by the prospective student.</p>
<p>Doc, I think your observation was quite worthy of thought. As were Concerneddad's observations. I lived in Pittsburgh for many years and if you look at the rosters of successful lawyers, judges and politicians in the area, an overwhelming majority are graduates of Pitt and Duquesne law schools. Though neither are top level schools, a Pittsburgher interested in law and could get into these schools would be making a wise career move. Similarly when I lived in Westchester County, it seemed that there were many lawyers who got their degree from Pace, a school I had not heard of. Here, Widener is the place to go, again not a first rate law school on the national level. It might be wise for kids to get some work experience, take some night classes to enhance the gpa and get some in depth work in certain business or tech areas, and get settled into an area, find where the law opportunities lie, then go to the local law school. A different path than a top student from a top school with top LSATs would take, but could lead to fulfilling career in law. And if that is truly where someone's interest lie, I would not discourage him even if the job opportunities are lean, though I would point out the realities. </p>
<p>My friend's daughter is interested in constitutional law, has spent time and energy working in the fields associated with it and has been accepted to a law school that is not national level. She did not get accepted to her top choices. But considering that she wants to stay in her home area, where there is name recognition of that law school and the average low wages that the field of constitutional law generally brings, the crux of her decision is on what she wants to do with her life. Several of my very well educated friends picked low paying fields because that is what they wanted to do and they are very fulfilled in their jobs. I know my husband loved working in an academic setting even though the pay was low, and found the stress, pace and style of a Wall Street job not worth the very high pay levels that the investment banking firms were willing to pay. Since he left NYC, most of his colleagues near his age have had stress related medical problems such as coronaries, strokes, etc. No one he knows from his years in academia have fallen into this category. So there are many things to consider when picking a career field.</p>
<p>Definitely check out US News rankings and find the universities in that range.</p>
<p>About employment: It is something to be very concerned about when applying to law schools. In a tough economy, even the students who graduate at the top of their classes at most schools will have a rough time getting a job. If you see the USNews employment statistics, it is not uncommon for about half of a graduating class to not be employed at graduation - which is a big deal, because bar study begins right after graduation. </p>
<p>Something to consider. Employment is far from automatic, and the salaries are often not what people expect.</p>
<p>
[quote]
thinking: Though I suspect your comment was facetitious
[/quote]
</p>
<p>When I am being facetious, you will know it. I was not being facetious -- I was expressing approval of your post. The way I write, most people can smell it when I am being facetious. I meant what I said in my comment. I think you are right on the money. I would say, Bingo! I hope that clears up any misconception.</p>