Luther vs. St. Olaf vs. Sewanee

College Search & Selection
1

My son is deciding between these three colleges. He is still not sure what he wants to major in but has strong interests in music and the environmental sciences (biology, geology, botany). An excellent orchestra and nearby nature are very important to him. We have visited Luther and St. Olaf, and he was impressed with both colleges, with a slight preference for St. Olaf. As a parent, these two colleges seemed very similar to me. At Luther, we had a more personalized tour and were able to meet three faculty members–all were welcoming, approachable, and seemed very knowledgeable in their fields. We visited St. Olaf on a Saturday and were only able to do a group tour, so we did not meet any faculty there. We have not yet visited Sewanee. My questions revolve around the differing costs of these three colleges for us. My son received great academic and music scholarships from Luther (cost for us first year would be $24,040); smaller merit scholarship from Sewanee (cost for us would be $41,000 for each year; their prices stay the same for 4 years); and a need-based grant from St. Olaf (cost for us would be $46,730). Questions:

  1. Are these three colleges basically equivalent in quality–or is it worth paying considerably more for one of them? The most important thing to our family is that the professors are good and it’s hard to determine that without interviewing them. . .
  2. We are 90% ready to go with the best offer but are wondering if there is anything else we should consider? We noticed that the colleges that give the best merit scholarships tend to have lower endowments. Is this a sign that they are not as stable? Or do they tend to put their money towards scholarships?
  3. My husband thinks the college that gives our son the best merit scholarship wants him the most and that that is something to pay attention to. Any thoughts on that?

I am going to look more at outcomes for these colleges. I have noticed that the 4-year graduation rate at Luther is 74.4%; St. Olaf is 85.9%, and Sewanee is 75.8%.

These three are our son’s favorites. He received good merit scholarships at some other LACs but they did not have the nature and music he wanted. He’s pretty easy going and flexible about going to any of the three.

We do not know any other families considering small LACs so any knowledge you have about this would be greatly appreciated! I’m not sure about visiting the more expensive ones for admitted student days because I’m not sure they are worth the extra cost. We “could” pay for any of the three, but the costlier ones would definitely be a strain. We have excellent savings but are worried about the Illinois Teachers’ Retirement system going bankrupt before we retire. . .

2

Well, I’m not trying to push you to spend more money than you’re comfortable with, but I think it’s fair to say that St. Olaf is the strongest academically of your options. Higher graduations rates (as you pointed out), higher test scores, higher freshman retention rates, more kids going on to get Ph.Ds, super fabulous science facilities, etc. The difference is particularly stark with Luther (looking at test scores, for instance).

Since you mentioned strength of teaching as an important criterion, one set of metrics that’s out there (and I can’t vouch for how accurate they are, but at least they’re SOMETHING) are the “Professors Interesting” and “Professors accessible” ratings at princeton review. They rate both St. Olaf and Luther very highly, with Sewanee an appreciable step down.

I don’t know too much about Sewanee, but if you haven’t visited, I would behoove you to do as much research as you can on whether or not the campus culture feels like a good fit for your kid, as it sounds pretty different than your other choices. Quoting princeton review again:

That sounds pretty darned different than St. Olaf, for instance (don’t know as much about Luther).

Regarding which school “wants him the most”, I think merit offers mainly reflect where your kid’s stats fall in the distribution of applicants the school receives. Schools where your kid is closer to the top of the heap will give you more money. It’s pretty much as simple as that.

Finally, man oh man is that top St. Olaf orchestra good. My son was blown away listening to them. Good luck!

3

I agree with the other opinion. Sewanee has a very different culture. The Greek life at Sewanee is basically all there is. The campus is amazing if you’re interested in environmental stuff. The writing program. The south may offer different music exposure, Nashville etc. But the culture is very different. Luther would be my choice IF it has the departments that your child wants. After visiting both schools and you think that Luther basically has what you want, from a grad school POV getting top grades, developing an interest in whatever grad discipline you desire and then acing the grad school standardized tests, that’s what will get you further than anything esle. If this were my child, and knowing that children change their minds, I would see if there was one or even three mentors that the student felt were in the intellectual ballpark in either school. Hopefully that will be at the cheaper institution! Mentorship helps the student find his way through a school and develop his interests more meaningfully. They also can provide guidance and help you meet people. Check the people that your child likes against websites that rate professors and summarize the school. (Knowing that only the most strident and vocal tend to rate. It’s just one more indication.) Also, you can maybe see if St. O would give you more money. It never hurts to ask. Both Luther and St. O have serious boy shortages.40% boys is the mark that schools do not want to get below. One school is 43% boys the other is 42% boys. This is not unusual for LACs but still, it may give you some bargaining power. St. O may be willing to throw in some more funding if they know that they might get your son. They can say no to your request for more funding but they will keep the space open for your child.

4

Our son, currently a junior, is starting to look at both Luther & St Olaf, and has toured both (along w/ Concordia Moorhead). Here is the upper Midwest, St Olaf is perceived as being academically stronger or more selective in its admissions. However, it also has the perception as being not as warm or welcoming place as either Luther or Concordia. It is sometimes described as combining a bit of elitism with the “Minnesota Nice” passive aggressive behavior. Personally, I’ve encountered both Oles that meet that description and others who are warm and engaging alums.

5

I would definitely visit Sewanee before making a decision. While there is some truth in that very outdated statement appearing in the Princeton Review, the reality of Sewanee is different than described. My D is liberal (has become more so while at Sewanee), quirky, and not rich. She loves the school.

Academically, Sewanee and St. Olaf are similarly ranked (if that matters to you) - USNews Sewanee #48, St. Olaf #51. Most students I know at Sewanee rave about the professors. Sewanee’s environmental sciences program is strong and the 13000 acre outdoor “laboratory” is beautiful.

I don’t know enough about Luther to draw any comparisons although the lower cost is certainly attractive.

Given that Sewanee is comparable academically to St. Olaf and has a lower price tag, I’d visit and see if it is a fit for your S.

6

From this description, it doesn’t seem like Sewanee is right at all for him–he’s not into partying and I can’t imagine him joining a fraternity. Music, canoeing, hiking, and surviving in the wilderness are his main outside school interests. My husband’s cousin went to Sewanee 30 years ago and raved about the nature, which is why our son applied.

Thank you for getting back to me so quickly, everyone–this is amazing.

Do you have the link for the “Professors Interesting” and “Professors Accessible”?

7

Even from our brief visits, I noticed some differences between them. But it’s hard to judge from just a day’s visit. St. Olaf did seem a bit more academic; their poetry collection in the bookstore was great (not that my son cares about that!), and newspapers and posters around campus seemed more intellectual. Their presentation to prospective students, though, seemed less personal and more “official” or something while Luther’s was more personal and welcoming. Again, this may be because of the Saturday vs. the Friday visit. There were tons of families visiting St. Olaf on a Saturday, and we were just one of many. My son loved the immediate nature surrounding Luther’s campus and meeting an orchestra conductor and biology professor. We did not, unfortunately, get to experience any music at St. Olaf but hear that it is spectacular. My son is very down-to-earth (he’d be fine living in a tent) and wouldn’t enjoy being in an elite atmosphere. On the other hand, he can’t stand being in classes in which the teacher and students are not engaged–so he’s kind of elitist about that.

8

Those sound like 3 great choices, but that is a really huge price difference. Especially when you multiply by 4 years! Since your son is quite happy with Luther, that seems like the easy choice.

I think the difference in graduation rates between St. Olaf and Luther are likely due to the difference in selectivity. But that doesn’t mean you shouldn’t expect your son to graduate at either one.

9

I agree, you have three fine choices. My only note would be that the larger scholarship from Luther is likely tied into the fact that it is a less selective school so your S’s stats are further above the average for Luther then they would be for St. Olaf. That is likely the reason that the school “wants your S more.” Luther may be the best overall package (education, price, matching interests) but it is good to understand that relationship. Congratulations on having great options. Good luck making a choice.

10

I respectfully defer to @overtheedge with regards to Sewanee. Having a kid at the school is a far better source of info than some college guide, and I don’t have any firsthand info, since we never visited that school. Likewise, the only things I know about Luther are what I’ve gleaned online. St. Olaf is the only school I or my kid have any real experience with (it’s one of his top choices that he’s trying to decide among right now).

All the Princeton Review stuff I was referencing is available on their website (princetonreview.com). You need to register to access everything, but it’s free. The professors stuff is under the “Academics” tab when you go to a particular college’s entry.

11

Uwalummon–thank you for the thoughts on graduation rates! That was one thing I was very worried about–25% not finishing is anxiety-provoking, but there’s no reason for him to be in that category; he’s been a great student so far; I don’t think he is going to change drastically in college. But it is disconcerting that 25% of one’s classmates may leave. And, Dustyfeathers, thank you for the reminder about mentors and being on the lookout for good ones. They do make all the difference in the world. I will take a look at the professor information suggested by rayrick tonight.

12

The overall academic caliber and general studiousness is similar at Sewanee and St Olaf. Sewanee is great for hiking but the sorority/fraternity/partying/drinking scene is prominent. It’s not the conservative bastion it used to be, at all, but the drinking culture is still there. It’s definitely Southern, slightly “aristocratic” (think of the gown tradition and the gorgeous architecture) and quite isolated, since it owns a mountain. Beautiful for outdoors activities. Very strong in writing. Music, not so much. Episcopalian, with an episcopal seminary.
St Olaf is officially “dry” but, erm, damp would be a better term - no fraternities/sororities. “wholesome” is a term that comes to mind when describing the students there. The music is superb. Quality of teaching is very, very high (if you believe USNWR ranks them #6 in the nation, tied with Macalester; Sewanee ranks at #12.) The Science conversation would probably appeal to your son. In terms of nature, St Olaf’s campus owns a farm and farmland and is a hill near a college town and is 45mn south of a dynamic cultural/economic center (the Twin Cities), so the environment’s very different from the rural South.

Based on your son’s description, I’d pick St Olaf if you can afford it. If not, Luther is kinda like St Olaf, but with less academic rigor and less endowment. The music is excellent. Your son got a large scholarship because his stats likely make him an outlier there, whereas he may only be "top 25% (in plenty company) at St Olaf and Sewanee.

Academically speaking:

GPA
Luther: 3.7 W
Sewanee: 3.6 UW
St Olaf: 3.6 UW

Average CR+M
Luther : 1117
Sewanee: 1247
St Olaf : 1265

Average ACT
Luther : 26
Sewanee: 28
St Olaf : 29

% students above 700 in either CR or M
Luther: 9-11%
Sewanee: 15-24%
St Olaf: 25-27%

% students above 30 on ACT
Luther: 15%
Sewanee: 33%
St Olaf: 50%

% freshmen who were top 10% in HS
Luther: 29%
Sewanee: 35%
St Olaf: 52%

Miscellaneous stats:

Number of rainy days
Luther 120
Sewanee 121
St Olaf 116

Lowest Jan temperature, highest September temp
Luther: 7, 79
Sewanee: 28, 87
St Olaf: 3, 80

Nearest airport
Luther: 150 miles
Sewanee : 90 miles
St Olaf: 35 miles

Nearest bus station
Luther: 50 miles
Sewanee: 4 miles
St Olaf: 35 miles

% in Greek Life
Luther : 2%
Sewanee: 56%
St Olaf : 0%

% non-white and international
Luther: 10%, 6%
Sewanee: 16%, 2.7%
St Olaf: 17%, 7%

13

“it doesn’t seem like Sewanee is right at all for him”

I’d be very careful about ruling out Sewanee without a visit. My D had similar misgivings during her search. She was concerned about the types of reviews @rayrick quoted above, especially references to a party/fraternity culture. She had some concerns about moving from a midwestern/northern culture that was familiar to her, to a southern culture that was new. She visited twice, still wasn’t completely sold, and went back a third time.

During the next few weeks she is finishing up her first year at Sewanee (which she ultimately chose over Denison, Union, and Wooster). She has loved every minute of it. The academics have been challenging, and her professors have been uniformly excellent, accessible and supportive. She has participated in the Sewanee outing program, including hikes in state parks and winter camping on the mountain. Sororities and fraternities are mostly “local” at Sewanee, and most parties are open to all. It is the norm for students to have close friends across various sororities and fraternities, and among independents. There are language houses, an active women’s center, and plenty of other opportunities for students not interested in Greek life. My D joined a sorority, but has close friends who didn’t.

For a student interested in environmental sciences, stellar academics, and outdoor activities, Sewanee should be given serious consideration and a visit. The outdated reviews in Princeton Review and elsewhere ultimately do a disservice to your son and others who are looking. I’m glad we ignored them.
(I can’t comment on the quality of Sewanee’s orchestra, although I know they have a music program.)

14

My husband, who has not yet been on many college visits this year, is going to take S to visit Luther again this weekend. We’ll see how they both respond, and, if it’s positive, I think this will be the wisest choice. If it’s not positive, then we will send S to see Sewanee (though S is unsure because there isn’t enough music for him) for the first time and to St. Olaf for the second time for admitted student days. For those of you considering the same colleges, here are some stats I found on the Princeton Review site. Take these with a grain of salt, as with all these ratings. I’ve seen different percentages elsewhere.

Luther (IA):
academic rating: 92
professors interesting/accessible: 90/95
selectivity: 88
graduation rate in 4 years: 69%

St. Olaf (MN):
academic rating: 93
professors interesting/accessible: 91/93
selectivity: 93
graduation rate in 4 years: 84%

Sewanee (TN):
academic rating: 87
professors interesting/accessible: 82/84
selectivity: 89
graduation rate in 4 years: 74%

and other places S has considered:

Augustana (IL):
academic rating: 84
professors interesting/accessible: 89/84
selectivity: 88
graduation rate in 4 years: 71%

Cornell College (IA):
academic rating: 87
professors intersting/accessible: 89/96
selectivity: 85
graduation rate in 4 years: 66%

Juniata (PA):
academic rating: 87
professors interesting/accessible: 90/90
selectivity: 88
graduation rate in 4 years: 67%

And the two where he was not accepted:

Grinnell (IA) (mother’s alma mater):
academic rating: 98
professors interesting/accessible: 95/98
selectivity: 95
graduation rate in 4 years: 79%

Middlebury (VT) (father’s alma mater):
academic rating: 98
professors interesting/accessible: 98/95
selectivity: 95
graduation rate in 4 years: 92%

So much for legacy?! Although in a way it all makes sense, as S is not as intense and intellectual as his parents, but, in our opinion, more balanced!

15

I know a number of alums from Luther. All of them turned out to be successful in their careers and seem to have a good impression of Luther, at least from the posts on their facebook pages! With the cost savings, you’d have more money for a semester abroad or other things.

16

Yes! Or money for grad school. I’m glad to hear, @CheddarcheeseMN, your positive news.

17

I graduated from Middlebury, but my wife (and her three siblings, all) attended Sewanee, so I’ve come to know the school fairly well. Not to mention, the current president of Sewanee was the president at Middlebury when I was there. It’s a beautiful school with a ridiculous number of Rhodes Scholars. Great writing program. Intellectual curiosity is encouraged. It is isolated, but that’s not necessarily a bad thing. I first visited expecting a conservative Southern culture. While I didn’t have trouble finding that, it is not the dominant culture there. It’s certainly more liberal than W&L. I have many positive things to say about Sewanee. Good luck.

18

We noticed that about the president. Fascinating! He must be a nature guy at heart.

19

Here’s an update on my husband and S’s visit to Luther this past weekend for those who might be interested in the college. My husband said the college was “top notch” and he was particularly impressed with their mission of sustainability. They saw the campus wind turbine, solar panels, and recycling options. The campus facilities were excellent, and the layout of buildings and natural areas was lovely and welcoming. Since my husband and S went on a weekend, they basically just snooped around. (I had previously gone to scholarship day with my S. and talked with professors and listened to the official sessions.)

They haphazardly met up with a cross-country team that chatted with them about the college and gave them a tour of their dorm rooms, which were messy but nicely furnished and arranged. Every person they met was friendly and helpful–the moment they took out a map, someone stopped by to see if they needed help. On a Saturday night, there was a reception after a recital in the music building as well as a rock concert. They walked through the biology building and were impressed with the student research projects presented on posters on the hallway walls. They liked that everything was clean and well cared for and that there were lots of little study nooks in the buildings where one could hide away for an hour between classes and read/study. They saw posters in common areas about activities on campus from lectures to upcoming adventures planned by the Outings Club. My husband was thrilled to see so many bikes on campus (instead of BMWs which were prevalent at his undergrad). There are a ton of bike trails in this area.

S. and husband also went on a hike from campus up a steep ridge, visited a nearby waterfall, and ate in a restaurant in the woods. They loved the surrounding countryside as well as the downtown (Decorah) which has several restaurants, coffee shops, a local brewery, and other fun shops for outdoor equipment and books.

Overall, a very positive visit. My husband wants to move there. S is coming closer to a decision but wants to contact St. Olaf and Sewanee and see if scholarships are negotiable. I told him “probably not,” but he still wants to try.

20

Merit scholarships are not negotiable at Olaf. Not sure about need based grants.