Which program would you choose and why: M&T at Penn or Econ + CS at Stanford? Both are great and I am struggling to decide which one to choose.
This is indeed a serious dillema. In my opinion Stanford is really the only school worth considering turning M&T down for. I think one of the advantages of M&T over Stanford is that the small and very close knit alumni network that really help each other out and especially students and young alumni looking for internships and full time jobs. Like the alumni have regular reunions and visit campus to meet the new M&T students and network with them. M&T is really a unique program. However I cannot really say choose one or the other, cause you cannot go wrong with either choice. I think a good strategy would be to apply M&T ED, given how much preference Penn gives to ED applicants. Of course ED is full of many competitive kids who have M&T as their top choice and that is why they commit to Penn ED. However if you feel you are not ready/willing to commit to Penn, then don’t apply ED.
If you value the business experience that much, M&T. Stanford is obviously an excellent school, but econ simply is not the same as business.
Additionally, Penn is a more diverse school than Stanford in terms of student interests, since not “everybody” is doing computer science. (Obviously not everybody studies computer science, but it certainly can feel that way at Stanford, according to my friends.) I really enjoyed having friends in the College of Arts and Sciences and in the nursing school, in addition to all of the engineering and business fields.
To be clear, Penn CS is still a very strong and very large program with the same career opportunities afforded to its graduates as the ones afforded to Stanford CS graduates.
Thanks for sharing your views @“Keasbey Nights” @Penn95 . One of the things I feel Stanford has over M&T is Silicon Valley and people like Peter Thiel walking onto campus and talking to you. Also, on the engineering side Stanford has a stronger program overall. Would you feel not being in such a strong engineering program at Penn, would be a disadvantage? M&T gives you the nice intimate network and really integrates both business and engineering, which you could try to replicate with a double major in Stanford but it isn’t as straightforward. In terms of early, M&T ED is a huge boost, but means you never get to entertain the chance of considering Stanford. Stanford REA gives you no real boost and makes M&T significantly harder in the regular round. Given no clear way to differentiate the two, how do you think I should make a decision on where to apply early? In terms of personal fit, I see myself fit in both places pretty well (both have similar high social cultures). I am indifferent to weather. Is there anything else you think I should consider?
So what if Peter Thiel can walk onto campus? You’re not going to learn anything from seeing him, or any other famous businessman, that you can’t just read in their book or watch on the Internet. And plus, he’s given guest lectures at Penn, too, along with every other top business exec out there.
Stanford CS is marginally better than Penn CS. Both schools are feeders into top tech companies, meaning they have recruiters dedicated to those schools. Top CS students at Penn and Stanford are essentially indistinguishable, again based on experience.
The primary differentiator for M&T versus Stanford is the business education at Wharton, and the entrepreneurship flood at Stanford. If you legitimately want to learn finance or management or marketing or whatever else you’d want to concentrate in at Wharton, then apply to M&T. If you want to join a budding start-up, Stanford might be better because there is more entrepreneurship on campus, and it’d be easier to get funding if you came up with a legitimately good idea. M&T won’t teach entrepreneurship, but then again, neither will Stanford. You can only really teach entrepreneurship to a limited extent (and you’d get more out of Paul Graham’s essays on the subject than any class you could take, really). Penn of course has an entrepreneurial community, but it’s bigger at Stanford for the obvious reasons. If you just want to be a software engineer at a big company, either school is fine. If you want to stay flexible because you don’t know what you want to do yet (which is totally fine, by the way!), go with M&T.
The importance distinction here is that Penn M&T and Stanford are not perfect substitutes. They cater to different interests.
Honestly, it sounds like you kind of want to apply SCEA to Stanford, so you should probably just do that if you still are having some trouble deciding.
@“Keasbey Nights” Thanks for the insights! I personally love both and can’t decide between them at all. No preference either way, and that’s what is making my early choice so hard. If you could go into more depth on how both are not perfect substitutes and cater to different interests that would be great.
On the Peter Thiel reference, what I meant was tons of famous entrepreneurs and industry experts who live in close proximity often come down to the university and you can interact with them on a personal level, ask them questions. These people even sometimes teach courses on a whim, if I am not wrong Peter Thiel taught a course for a while at Stanford that turned into his book. These interactions with the bevy of talent in the Bay area are an intangible compared to Penn I feel. Stanford and Silicon Valley are symbiotic, and I feel tapping into Silicon Valley from a learning perspective, not just funding and entrepreneurship opportunities, provides something that Penn can’t match, if I am correct?
Please also let me know anything else I should consider and how I should decide between the two for early. Please ignore statistical boosts.
Thanks!
Penn also has tons of famous entrepreneurs and industry experts visit, but from a more diverse background. I really doubt you’ll be picking Max Levchin’s brain for hours on end or anything, but yes, you get to hear them speak relatively often. I think the bigger advantage is being close to funding and young entrepreneurs, which I already conceded is an obvious advantage of Stanford.
I’ll say it again—even if you feel that you can’t decide, it definitely sounds like you’re biasing towards Stanford, so you should really just apply SCEA to Stanford. The only benefit you’ve espoused of M&T over Stanford is that “M&T gives you the nice intimate network and really integrates both business and engineering, which you could try to replicate with a double major in Stanford but it isn’t as straightforward.” But this is a huge understatement of reality. You fundamentally cannot replicate M&T at Stanford. I even just browsed Stanford’s econ course offerings to double-check; you’ve got one corporate finance course, one risk/insurance course and two accounting courses. That’s why they’re not perfect substitutes. If you want to become a tech co-founder and don’t really care about the business side of things, then Stanford is probably a bit of a better choice (not that M&T doesn’t have tech entrepreneurs). If you have a deep yearning to learn subjects like corporate valuation, the management of innovation, and advanced probability models in marketing from the literal pioneers of those subjects, then M&T is probably a bit of a better choice. (Again, consider the CS programs essentially a tie, since both feed into the same companies.)
The decision you need to make is solely which you prefer: a true business education, or proximity to Silicon Valley for networking purposes. I don’t think I have anything more to offer here. Best of luck with the admissions cycle!
I agree completely with @Keasbey Nights. You cannot replicate M&T at Stanford. Stanford will give you world class engineering and entrepreneurial opportunities up the whazzoo. M&T will give you a world class business education integrated with engineering in a small environment with a great network. Both are great environments, but they are fundamentally different, and you will have to chose which you prefer, and you will be in great shape if you get in to either. You have plenty of information to decide which you prefer, but you are having trouble making a decision. No one can help you.
Like @Keasbey Nights, my intuition is that you want to apply SCEA to Stanford, and that if you got in to M&T ED you would be second guessing yourself. So go for it.