Mac or PC in college?? Any opinions please...

Student Lounge College Life
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<p>troubador: Apple's build quality is good, but much (most) of the cost sunk in to Apple's laptops is for the looks and design features of the laptop's structure itself, not the internals of the computer, nor the actual sturdiness of the laptop (though they are very sturdy).</p>

<p>Back up your assertion that most PC makers make Walmart-type computers.</p>

<p>Nichole: You're misinformed. That was a first past the post hacking competition. It ended after the first successful hack, which according to its perpetrator took 30 minutes tops. Mac security is definitely better than Windows, but the oft-stated opinion that Windows is less secure because it's a bigger target is definitely true. Mac OS X has lots of unpublished exploits, but because people aren't as bothered about exploiting the weaknesses they don't get much press time. Trust me, if MacOS had the huge market share Windows does now, the situation for the Mac would be similar, though maybe not quite as severe. (Source: <a href="http://news.zdnet.co.uk/software/0,1000000121,39256036,00.htm%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://news.zdnet.co.uk/software/0,1000000121,39256036,00.htm&lt;/a&gt;) Note especially in the site I posted this quote: "'Mac OS X is easy pickings for bug finders. That said, it doesn't have the market share to really interest most serious bug finders,' Gwerdna added." Also note: </p>

<p>"'The only thing which has kept Mac OS X relatively safe up until now is the fact that the market share is significantly lower than that of Microsoft Windows or the more common Unix platforms... If this situation was to change, in my opinion, things could be a lot worse on Mac OS X than they currently are on other operating systems,' Archibald said at the time."</p>

<p>The problem with threads like this is you get a bunch of computer-illiterate people saying Macs are great, a bunch more somewhat more computer-literate people who prefer Windows (with a few Mac people), then another level of competency upwards where it's a mix of Windows and Linux, mainly, with some Apple users who use for OS design features that don't include "ease" or looks, and then finally a level of power users who make their decision based on deeper, more meaningful features of an OS, and its raw abilities.</p>

<p>You can almost always place people into categories based on their response to this question, and the answers they give.</p>

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<p>
[quote]
troubador: Apple's build quality is good, but much (most) of the cost sunk in to Apple's laptops is for the looks and design features of the laptop's structure itself, not the internals of the computer, nor the actual sturdiness of the laptop (though they are very sturdy).

[/quote]
</p>

<p>I disagree. Even though Apple DOES make sure to make your laptop attractive enough that it's not an eyesore (think of the big Dells), part of the cost differential is in Mac OS X and the whole "Apple experience.</p>

<p>1of42,</p>

<p>I don't disagree, but I disagree that power users are a good benchmark.</p>

<p>The average consumer of a computer, like an average automobile driver, doesn't give a hoot about the internals. They want it to work. Some of us enjoy tinkering "under the hood," so to speak, and learn Python. Some of us would rather just put gas in the engine and go.</p>

<p>I suspect more people are in the latter category. Even if Toyotas aren't necessarily the most sophisticated cars on the market, they are reliable and do what most people want (get from point A to point B.) Macs are the same, in a lot of ways. </p>

<p>Sure, if you know cars, you know that there is actually a lot of beauty under the hood of a Toyota. But most people don't know a spark plug from a samoflange, and don't care to know. Whether an OS is easy to use DOES matter.</p>

<p>I also think that a lot of Mac users are pretty savvy users. Just because they don't have to deal with .dll's doesn't mean that they're illiterate. They're just blessed. ;)</p>

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<p>Do regular Macbooks come with DVD players?</p>

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<p>UCLAri: I didn't say that we should base comparisons off power users or that they were a better benchmark. It is my opinion that they are, because frankly if somebody doesn't know what they're talking about, just because there's a lot of people like them thinking the same thing doesn't make them right. I have no problem with people stating their opinions on this debate from their point of view when it's brought up, but I think it's disingenuous when those same people make it appear that they're speaking from a position other than that of a person with little knowledge of the intricacies of operating systems, or the comparative advantages of each OS. If those people (many of whom have posted in this thread) posted "Disclaimer: I know little about computers; this post is my own, more or less superficial opinion based on ease of use, etc." to their posts, I'd take them much more seriously.</p>

<p>As for your disagreement regarding where most of the cost for a Mac comes from, that's valid. The only thing is, though, OSX isn't exactly a costly OS (think the comparison to Windows Vista Ultimate, which is far more expensive and comes pre-installed on Dells), so that can't be the source of the cost. I entirely agree with you that the main cost differential is in the "Apple experience", but the superficiality of that was what I was trying to get at with regards to the looks of the computers.</p>

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<p>i just got a 15" Mac Book Pro, Glossy Screen, 3GB Memory, 200GB HD</p>

<p>it's the best computer i've ever had, and is compatable with my work and school :D</p>

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<p>1of42,</p>

<p>I think that there's more to the "Apple experience" than just the marginal cost of Mac OS. It's actually being able to USE Mac OS, and take part in the Apple community-- also, there's the fact that the build quality of the hardware itself tends to be pretty good. Maybe even Lenovo good (maybe...)</p>

<p>But again, I think the average user is the BEST benchmark for the average user. The average user is the person who's going to have the same needs in a system as another average user. Again, I used Windows for years and was what many consider a "power user." I find that I do almost everything faster in Mac OS X than I did in Windows. I don't exactly know why-- I just do.</p>

<p>But my case shouldn't be a good metric. For one, I have all sorts of tricks up my sleeve (from the terminal) that I can use that others cannot. However, if other "average" users also find that Mac OS offers them a better experience, then they are a good measure.</p>

<p>I think that Windows users brag too often about how ARCANE Windows can be. That's not bragging rights! That's something that Microsoft should be trying to get rid of. At least with Mac OS, you get things done quickly and easily if you're an average users-- then, if you're like me, you stretch out in terminal or other places. In other words, the learning curve is shallow for the "Word, internet, Excel, e-mail, AIM"-only types. But it still has enough to offer the advanced users that they aren't really constrained.</p>

<p>I'm not saying it's a perfect environment. It's not. It has many flaws that I see are not present in Windows. I just think it has fewer flaws than Windows.</p>

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<p>I was wondering what a good PC laptop was, and how it compares to a Macbook/MB Pro. There are some programs on Windows that I use quite frequently (mIRC, uTorrent, etc) and there doesnt really seem to be equal alternatives on OSX. And the preferred player is VLC as far as I know, but I prefer Media Player Classic when the right codecs are installed. I also do not really have a "legitimate" copy of Windows, so I know I would have to go out of my way to purchase it. So I'm not sure if getting a Mac would be practical just to install Windows on it.</p>

<p>Thanks</p>

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<p>Lenovos, I think, are the closest equivalent to Macs in terms of build quality. </p>

<p>And there are IRC and torrent equivalents on the Mac...</p>

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<p>If I had to purchase a PC Laptop right now it would be a Dell XPS.</p>

<p>But, of course, I recommend buying a Mac and using Windows via Bootcamp.</p>

<p>Cheers,
Alex</p>

<p>PS:

[quote]

I think that there's more to the "Apple experience" than just the marginal cost of Mac OS. It's actually being able to USE Mac OS, and take part in the Apple community-- also, there's the fact that the build quality of the hardware itself tends to be pretty good. Maybe even Lenovo good (maybe...)

[/quote]

Just to correct UCLAri a little bit (I know this is nit picky) Mac OS is cheaper than most of the versions of Windows. It's the hardware itself that is expensive. So if you already own an Apple Computer, you're obviously getting more bang for the buck with Mac OS X, as opposed to owning a computer that can't run OS X.</p>

<p>As for security being better for lack of user base, it's somewhat true; just remember, 5% market share is still a lot of user, most of whom I assure you are VERY capable of finding weakness' in the OS. It happens all the time, and Apple is very quick to fix these problems.</p>

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<p>AlexGFX,</p>

<p>I don't know that you really corrected me...I think what I said agreed with you.</p>

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<p>OK, cool. Any recommended Lenovo computers? Also, what is a better deal as far as Macbooks vs Macbook Pros.</p>

<p>I also know there are IRC and Torrent equivalents on the Mac, but I've grown too accustomed to mIRC and uTorrent that it will be kind of hard to give them up. I'm not really in the Mac vs PC argument for security, as long as you know what you're doing, that shouldn't really be a problem.</p>

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<p>Stick to the business-end Lenovos. The T-series is quite good.</p>

<p>uTorrent is good, but trust me that Azureus is a good alternative. You won't be disappointed. As far as the better deal goes, I think that the Macbook is more bang for the buck.</p>

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<p>UCLAri:</p>

<p>Oof I totally read that wrong. So sorry. </p>

<p>Azureus is a fantastic program, I 100% recommend it.</p>

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<p>You've got me stumped, though... when did I say Mac OS is expensive? :p</p>

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<p>I read it again, sorry, I misinterpreted it; I'm very sleepy. I thought you said it was expensive, but then I saw the MARGINAL :( :P</p>

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<p>Thanks a lot of the input. Now I have to narrow it down from a Thinkpad and a Macbook I suppose.</p>

<p>And I agree that Azureus is quite a nice BT client, however, it takes up too many resources because of Java. That is why I prefer uTorrent, because it is a simple .exe file that allows me to do what I need. But if I have to...I guess I might have to switch...</p>

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<p>You can always just do what I do-- Run Windows simultaneously with Parallels...</p>

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<p>Using a Mac just to end up running Windows seems to defeat the purpose of purchasing a Mac in the first place...</p>

<p>This is a difficult choice to make...</p>

<p>Edit: Thinking about it more...I do not really know what reason I would have to switching to a Mac in the first place.
So for now, I'm going to stick to Windows. I do however, appreciate all the help that you guys have provided me with.</p>

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<p>Looks like uTorrent is coming to the Mac...<a href="http://torrentfreak.com/utorrent-for-mac-is-coming-an-early-review/%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://torrentfreak.com/utorrent-for-mac-is-coming-an-early-review/&lt;/a>
Now I just wonder if theres an IRC client just as good as mIRC</p>