I noted a Whole Foods within walking distance of campus…which symbolized a more up-scale neighborhood to me. I"m from NYC where owning a car is not needed and a hassle and there’s a clear distinction between the suburbs and the city. St Paul felt more like DC or Boston where there are pockets of neighborhoods with a quieter, more suburban feel despite being technically "in the city.
I agree with AmyVirginia. St. Paul is lower key than Minneapolis, and the campus neighborhood doesn’t feel urban at all. (I wouldn’t use the word gritty to describe anything in the immediate area, though there are noticeable contrasts with the mansions on Summit.) But it’s walkable, has easy public transportation access that puts other neighborhoods in reach, and is only 5-6 miles from both downtown St. Paul and downtown Minneapolis.
If you look around at the side neighborhoods off Snelling you will find a little grittiness in between the fancy neighborhoods. I know because my daughter who is homesick for our rundown Rust Belt city has actively sought them out, ha, ha.
Macalester offers lots of opportunities to get involved in the larger community with both long-term and short-term commitments that will get you into the more “city” parts of St. Paul and Minneapolis. Again, my daughter has done these activities when feeling out of sorts at Mac, and gets rejuvenated by being back among “her people.” in places like community libraries, community gardens, and public housing complexes.
@UNYMom , how has your daughter adjusted to Mac? Have things improved socially?
@MiddleburyDad2 - How sweet of you to ask! I think it is going better. Will find out more when she comes home next week! She has found individual friends here and there, some of them older students who I think she finds more comfortable to hang out with than the huge groups that first year students tend to travel in. She has also attended a couple of the Friday Night ballroom dancing classes that are sponsored by Mac but are open to the public.
I adored college from the first weeks, so I wasn’t prepared for this difficulty, but it sounds like it is pretty common. The academics have been fantastic, and she knows all her profs fairly well, so that has balanced out the other issues. Am keeping my fingers crossed that things will improve on other fronts in the second semester.
@tr831 We visited both Lewis & Clark and Macalester and the neighborhoods are NOT the same. With Mac, the surrounding area is a small, walkable neighborhood, with shops and restaurants. The campus of L & C s is tucked away in a wooded, secluded, residential neighborhood. Both schools have beautiful campuses but completely different vibes. I’m not sure if this matters, but L&C seemed dark and is in the middle of a ‘forest’. Macalester is open and light. My daughter and I both felt it would be easier to get to cafes and shops (right across the street from Mac) as a student at Macalester. We didn’t see any shops, cafes or stores within walking distance from L&C.
Mac is definitely not a big city feel, but you could say that of MPLS/St.Paul in general. It’s located in a nice, but by no means upper crust, neighbourhood halfway between the twin cities. Very liveable, safe, and has plenty of smallish neighbourhoods surrounding it with some interesting shops and restaurants. You might find a world class violin or guitar store, restaurant, book store, wine bar, coffee shop, etc… Not a lot, if any, big box stores.
To me, it’s somewhere in between urban and suburban, with some of the best features of both. Maybe not really exciting, like a school in downtown Boston…more laid back.
Just want to point out that when most families visit campuses, they tend to do it by car. But when you’re at Vassar, you’d visit the city by train, not by car. Virtually no one has a car. That may account for why people felt it was looooong trip. The trip by train is 90 minutes and gorgeous. It runs along the Hudson River and comes into Grand Central Station. To get from Vassar to the train station, there are often taxis waiting and you can share a taxi, often, with other students going to the train station. It’s very easy and the trip can be done in a day, down and back, and you can take in a show or go to a museum.
57special - I guess it’s all what your’re used to. I grew up in Boston, and I don’t find it exciting at all, ha, ha. It has become so expensive that the quirkiness is harder to fine than in the Twin Cities. And don’t get me started on how Harvard Square has become a paen to corporate America. (Sorry for the old folk nostalgia rant.)
And agree with Dustyfeathers - The train ride is beautiful. I often take it from even further north and never tire of the views.
Our son is at Vassar now. He wouldn’t consider Macalester because my wife and I are both alumni, and he wanted to make his own way. I would agree with bzzzbzzz about Vassar’s superior resources. I would expect aid to be similar at both places.
Macalester’s location really is amazing, though. A lot of Mac kids who come to the Twin Cities from elsewhere wind up never leaving! It’s much more cosmopolitan than, say, Boston, in my opinion.
You might need to compare relevant departments, if you child has a strong sense of what they want to pursue.
@ytippiz S19 is visiting Mac tomorrow. I’m curious about your comment that Vassar has superior resources. Would you be able to elaborate at all?
S19 also looking closely at Davidson, Grinnell, Kenyon, and Carleton among others. I’m sure they all have good resources but Grinnell is the one that stood out to us so far on that front.
Carleton is a great school. If you are going to see Mac, you owe it to yourself to drive 45 minutes and see it, also.
@57special Seeing Carleton as well. I was able to get him into a class there as well as info session and tour!
Good luck with it. Make sure you get a lunch ticket or two(they are usually given with the tour) and check out the food.
I couldn’t get S1 to visit Grinnell, and had to twist his arm to visit Carleton the first time, but after that first time he was hooked, and has been back numerous times since.
We both found Carleton to have a unique, understated, charm. Smart, friendly, mildly eccentric. Staff is unpretentious, which isn’t always the case at some of the “elite” LAC’s and universities we have visited. Attractive and practical campus. Love the pond. The ability to easily walk right into town is a plus, also. Having another student body just up the hill at St. Olaf adds to the mix.
@homerdog I think Vassar spends more resources on getting their juniors and seniors launched into the world. My son has a grad school advisor that is proving to be pretty helpful, etc… granted, faculty can also take that role and did for me at Macalester, but my son has both faculty and an advisor who specializes in getting Vassar kids into grad school. Also, the career fairs at Vassar probably look more impressive than they do at Mac. A lot of companies in NYC find it pretty easy to show up to staff a booth. Ivy league grad schools also show up to recruit.
I think it’s evident that Macalester has become a stronger school since I was there, but sheer geography will still indicate that an ambitious kid would be better off considering Vassar, if they wanted to go on to grad school at an Ivy, or start a career on Wall Street.
I think you are definitely correct about Wall Street and the grad school advisors at Vasaar. In terms of grad school admittance, I am not sure. The lists look decent at both schools. Friends who are professors say that grad school reps coming to the school make little difference in terms of admissions, although it may make a difference in making students aware of grad specialties they didn’t know existed at certain schools.
@unymom I’m sure you’re right about grad school reps. I do think that having an encouraging convo with a rep from an Ivy is worth something in terms of motivation… even though it doesn’t actually improve an applicant’s odds!